Doctor Who (2 Viewers)

[NeilO]

The revelation at the end that his elaborate torture room was actually his confession dial wasn't entirely unexpected, but it did raise certain questions: Why did the entire thing appear geared to bring him to this specific solution? If the creator wanted him to go the long way around, why? And if not, why create an escape that requires billions of years of beak sharpening to reach? Was it always a portal to Gallifrey, or did it just pop the person out of the dial, and it took the billions of years to get the dial physically onto Gallifrey, much like the program on the Doctor's sonic screwdriver? How did the rooms reset so that none of the mechanical components wore down over time? Where did the duplicate versions of the Doctor's clothes, warming by the fire, come from? Did the original iteration of the Doctor go to his death naked to preserve the comfort for all of the billions of Doctors who followed? And if so, why didn't they disappear in the reset? Who placed the portrait of Clara in the castle?

....


Some are speculating that the there was more to the Doctor's statement in "The Zygon Inversion" that thinking Clara was dead was the longest month of his life, and that perhaps the episodes (from the Doctor's perspective) have not been presented in a linear order, and that the episodes with the Doctor in the starch white shirt take place prior to his dressed down look for most of this series.

The look we have of the Doctor in the season opener talking about death really makes it look like he knew or anticipated her death right then. And there are other "knowing" looks that make it also look that way.


Lots of good questions about the episode when you start to think about it. Somehow I doubt whether any of them will be answered in the finale.


Unfortunately, the Dish Network little info summary you see when selecting the show (which I did to lengthen to recording time earlier in the day) said "Trapped in a world unlike nay other he has seen, the Doctor faces the greatest challenge of his many lives; pursued by the fearsome creature known only as the Veil, he must attempt the impossible; if he makes it through, Gallifrey is waiting." Why did they include that last phrase? It would have been nice not to have been spoiled. I heard that Gallifrey was mentioned in the Radio Times or some other summary for next week's any so anyone who saw that before watching this also got the inadvertent spoiler.

 

[David Weicker]

I have to say that watching this with several hundred Doctor Who fans last night (at the Chicago TARDIS convention) was fairly awesome.
The episode didn't start out well, IMO, but if you stick with it, it definitely pays off (and I'm not just referring to the reveal at the end) but in general.

The reveal was terrific, even though it had been kind of spoilered from far too many sources

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Elisabeth Sladen's daughter, Sadie Miller, has written a novel titled Moon Blink, which features Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart facing an otherworldly threat between his adventures with the Doctor.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

 

[David Weicker]

Woke up this morning and received this.

Hello,

We now have delivery date(s) for the order you placed on May 30, 2014:

"Doctor Who: The Underwater Menace"
Estimated arrival date: March 01, 2016

If you want to check on the progress of your order, take a look at this page in Your Account:

We hope to see you again soon!

Sincerely,

Customer Service Department

Now my collection will be complete. All the existing episodes will be on my shelf (Doctor Who fans hate gaps in our shelves)

 

[Keith Cobby]

I have been critical of Doctor Who recently but I have enjoyed the episodes with Maisie Williams. She should be the next companion.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

This finale featured the Moffat failings that usually associated with his lesser episodes -- the loose ends, the excesses, the cleverness at the expense of credibleness -- but I loved it anyway, and loved it unabashedly. It was exciting, tragic and triumphant with a wonderful payoff for our emotional investment in this ninth series and in the Doctor/Clara relationship.


Anything that didn't tie into that emotional throughline was shunted off to the side without so much as a second glance. How did Rassilon go from being Timothy Dalton to being Donald Sumpter? Irrevelent, since he just got kicked off the planet. What is the hybrid? The answer is as theoretical and unsatisfactory as the prophesy that generated it. And what about the Eighth Doctor's assertion that he is half-human, on his mother's side? May or may not be true, doesn't matter either way. The Doctor is the Doctor, and how the hows and whys of him running away with his granddaughter that have put him on this path don't matter. What drew the Sisterhood of Karn into this conflict? Don't know, don't really care. How did Gallifrey go from being frozen in a single moment in a pocket universe? The Time Lords did it somehow.


At the same time, there is so much for long time fans to chew on. Gallifrey being back in the proper universe, even hiding away 4.5 billion years in the future, means the Time Lords are back in play for "Doctor Who". The Doctor's great stand really being a ruse to rescue Clara from imminent death was delightful, and his getaway plan -- to steal a TARDIS and run away, just like he did at the start of all this -- was wonderful. We got to see the original TARDIS set, recreated to meet the demands of HD cinematography. We got additional glimpses into the period of his life when he lived in the barn where three versions of himself decided the fate of two species. The presence of multiple Weeping Angels in the Gallifreyan mainframe raised the interesting possibility that one of "Doctor Who's" most terrifying monsters began as a Time Lord firewall.


Mostly, the episode works because it delivers on the promise of the journey up to this point, and feels like a natural (if unexpected) consequence of this particular mix of personalities. It was anchored by two remarkable performances by Capaldi (who now owns the role of the Doctor so completely that it's impossible to imagine anybody else in the role) and Coleman (who is everything the show requires her to be in this episode, and that's a lot), with an able assist from the preternatural Maisie Williams.


I've felt that nonlinear storytelling has been horrendously overused on television in recent years, but this is an example where it was the best possible way to tell this story. The conversation between this aged rocker and his waitress, and the way our understanding of it is shaped by the story being told, is beautiful and terrible and heartbreaking and wonderful. The parallels to and differences from Donna's departure from the show just tear me up inside all over again.


And yet, how could the Doctor do any different? He refused to take Ashildr on as a companion because she was too much like him. Ultimately, that was Clara's undoing as a companion, too. At the times where a companion is supposed to rein the Doctor in, she goaded him on. She gave him a lot of joy during their adventures together, but she was bad for him, and by the climax of the episode both of them knew it.


But in spite of that (or maybe because of that), I loved the idea of Clara (a heartbeat from death) and Ashildr/Me (having done her duty as the Patron Saint of the Doctor's Leftovers the long way around for billions and billions of years) running off into the great blue yonder, with Clara smartass as ever, and Ashildr/Me finally again having that look of pure innocent wonder that she had as that little Viking girl oh so long ago. The show did a brilliant job of arcing her character over the course of the series, from innocent Viking girl, to self-absorbed Noblewoman adolescent, to overconfident young adult, and now wizened old woman. And then back full circle.


Series nine is right up there with the fifth series as the most remarkable run of new "Who" for me. On one hand, the worst episodes of Series 5 weren't nearly the misfire "Sleep No More" was, and I don't know that any episode achieved the beautiful simplicity of "Vincent and the Doctor". On the other hand, Series 9 explored emotionally rich and complicated territory that Series 5 -- being both a new Doctor and a new companion story -- hadn't earned. Series 5 is the more polished journey but Series 9 is the deeper journey. Both had finales that were absolute corkers.


Using the Christmas special to tell a River Song story is smart. It allows us an exhale after Clara, and it allows them time to really figure out what they want and need out of a new companion. And when she (or he?) is introduced, they won't lose momentum with a months or even years long break between the first and second appearances.

 

[Kevin Hewell]

The presence of multiple Weeping Angels in the Gallifreyan mainframe raised the interesting possibility that one of "Doctor Who's" most terrifying monsters began as a Time Lord firewall.

I never thought of them that way but it makes perfect sense.

 

[NeilO]

Deleted - technical problem made me duplicate it below.

 

[NeilO]

I think they wrote themselves into a corner with Clara's death and the Doctor wanting to make them pay. It was going down a dark path which could have been unrecoverable. So, to bring it back to a lighter show they removed the Doctor's memory of Clara and it is clear sailing for a while.

But in spite of that (or maybe because of that), I loved the idea of Clara (a heartbeat from death) and Ashildr/Me (having done her duty as the Patron Saint of the Doctor's Leftovers the long way around for billions and billions of years) running off into the great blue yonder, with Clara smartass as ever, and Ashildr/Me finally again having that look of pure innocent wonder that she had as that little Viking girl oh so long ago. The show did a brilliant job of arcing her character over the course of the series, from innocent Viking girl, to self-absorbed Noblewoman adolescent, to overconfident young adult, and now wizened old woman. And then back full circle.

There are loads of 12th Doctor and Clara stories that have been referred to, so we don't even need a Clara and Me spin-off for more stories. I do think that would be an interesting spin-off to see/hear.

It looks like Ashidr/Me really liked immortality to stay around so long and now to happily gallivant around with Clara for who knows how much longer.

I would have liked to have heard more of the Time Lords negotiations with Mayor Me. What did they promise and how did they prove they could fulfill that promise so that she would spring such a dangerous trap?

 

[NeilO]

Test .... Something weird happened when I tried a reply and I've been getting "no data received" when loading the page 46.

 

[Wayne_j]

Moffat seems to have been caught in a Davies where he introduced things that he didn't have a plan for and tried to make up what they mean later on. RTD, however, is much better at successfully pulling it off.


I loved how Clara died in Face the Raven and thought that the finale undid all that was good about that episode.

 

[Tony J Case]

Moffat seems to have been caught in a Davies where he introduced things that he didn't have a plan for and tried to make up what they mean later on. RTD, however, is much better at successfully pulling it off.

Rusty's climaxes may have been barking mad, but they were fun. This - okay, I'm not part of the Internet Hyperbole Steven Moffett Must Go brigade, but I'm tired of his writing. The return of Gallifrey, a HUGE turning point for the Doctor, should not have been a B-plot in a story about something else. But even worse than that, I am not okay with the Doctor straight out murdering a man as a matter of convenience and then him blowing it off as "oh, he'll be okay - he'll regenerate!"


That's bullshit.


The only other point I had against the episode. Here's this big dramatic scene in the Old School white console room and I was crazy distracted trying to get a look at the surroundings more than paying attention to what was going on. Mind you, that's all on me, I'll admit that.


I did like the Doctor letting go of his spoon when told to drop all weapons.


Overall, I'm not sure where I stand on the season. The Dalek episode was very strong, the first one with Ashildr was very strong, I liked the Zygon episodes and the Trapped in the Mind Maze was pretty clever. I thought the Underwater base under siege episodes were merely ok, as was the Raven episode and I really, really hated the Eye Booger Monster episode. So it had enough good to keep me entertained, but the Meh and "Fuck you, episode" episodes were prevalent too.


Overall score: meh (with moments of woo hoo!)

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Tonight's hour was a strong contender for the best Doctor Who Christmas Special so far.


There are some that tell Christmas stories, and there are some that just happen to be set at Christmas. This was firmly in the latter category, but it was a terrific standalone story that took advantage of the gap between companions in much the same way Donna Noble's first appearance did.


It also employed the River Song character in a fundamentally different way that we'd ever experienced before. There was the dynamic between the Tenth Doctor (who had never met her) and River Song (who absolutely idolized the mythical being that was the Doctor). There was the dynamic between the Eleventh Doctor (who was flummoxed by her and increasingly smitten by her) and River Song (who was bemused by the ridiculous being that was the Doctor). In this episode we got two new sides of River: River Song when she thinks the Doctor's not around, and the dynamic between the Twelfth Doctor (who knows her as well as anybody in the galaxy) and River Song (who absolutely idolized the mythical being that was the Doctor).


By "The Name of the Doctor", the rhythms of Eleven and River had gotten a little too familiar. How startling it was to have the character again be so fresh and surprising. How wonderful to see the power dynamic between them reversed so completely. How satisfying to finally have the full context for the River Song we saw in "Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead". And, if this truly is the character's last appearance, how delightful that it's a true corker instead of the convoluted mess that was "The Name of the Doctor".


Capaldi and Kingston were wonderful together. My only complaint is that we didn't get to see the "red setting" on the Doctor's fancy new sonic screwdriver make an appearance.

 

[NeilO]

Tonight's hour was a strong contender for the best Doctor Who Christmas Special so far.

....

How satisfying to finally have the full context for the River Song we saw in "Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead". And, if this truly is the character's last appearance, how delightful that it's a true corker instead of the convoluted mess that was "The Name of the Doctor".


Capaldi and Kingston were wonderful together. ...

It was just a wonderful episode. The Doctor referred to as "the Damsel."


There were references to some adventures we have seen, at least one we have heard about but haven't seen, and I think at least one which we hadn't heard about before (or I forgot we had).


I presume that must be the sonic screwdriver that River has in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead.


The Diaries of River Song from Big Finish was just released digitally from Big Finish today. I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but I am looking forward to that and seeing how that fits in with everything we've seen.


Edit: Just saw this timeline of River on the Radio Times page

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I re-watched the "Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead" two-parter earlier today and, other than being frustrated by the huge step backwards in both video quality and visual effects, it's amazing how smoothly "The Husbands of River Song" flows into that story. She feels like the same River, if quite a bit more moral than she was in last night's episode.

"The last time I saw you—the real you, the future you, I mean—you turned
up on my doorstep with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to
Derillium. To see the Singing Towers. Oh, what a night that was. The
towers sang, and you cried. You wouldn’t tell me why but I suppose you
knew it was time. My time. Time to come to the Library. You even gave me
your screwdriver. That should have been a clue."​

Does that not perfectly describe last night's episode? When the still-hooded River declares him impressive, he indignantly replies, "I’ve had a haircut and this is my best suit." Later on, of course, we see him in a proper suit, and "a new haircut" is as apt a metaphor for a new regeneration as any.

I presume that must be the sonic screwdriver that River has in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead.

That was something I was looking for, and it was. Same prop, just cleaned up a bit.

Edit: Just saw this timeline of River on the Radio Times page

Very cool! Thanks for sharing. Nice of the Radio Times to do the work for us. Will Brooks has also updated his graphical version on Facebook.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

From the BBC:

 

[Jeffery_H]

I re-watched the "Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead" two-parter earlier today and, other than being frustrated by the huge step backwards in both video quality and visual effects, it's amazing how smoothly "The Husbands of River Song" flows into that story. She feels like the same River, if quite a bit more moral than she was in last night's episode.

"The last time I saw you—the real you, the future you, I mean—you turned
up on my doorstep with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to
Derillium. To see the Singing Towers. Oh, what a night that was. The
towers sang, and you cried. You wouldn’t tell me why but I suppose you
knew it was time. My time. Time to come to the Library. You even gave me
your screwdriver. That should have been a clue."​

Does that not perfectly describe last night's episode? When the still-hooded River declares him impressive, he indignantly replies, "I’ve had a haircut and this is my best suit." Later on, of course, we see him in a proper suit, and "a new haircut" is as apt a metaphor for a new regeneration as any.


That was something I was looking for, and it was. Same prop, just cleaned up a bit.


Very cool! Thanks for sharing. Nice of the Radio Times to do the work for us. Will Brooks has also updated his graphical version on Facebook.

If you are watching Doctor Who for those reasons, then you simply are impressed by special effects alone. It takes ZERO talent for that sort of rubbish as shows like Doctor Who are ALL about the story. That's why I have been so critical of New Who, specifically those since Moffat took over.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

If you are watching Doctor Who for those reasons, then you simply are impressed by special effects alone. It takes ZERO talent for that sort of rubbish as shows like Doctor Who are ALL about the story. That's why I have been so critical of New Who, specifically those since Moffat took over.

That is, to say the least, a VERY selective reading of my post. One clause in one sentence making a general observation about going "back in time" in terms of production standards, in a post that was otherwise entirely about story -- and very complementary about the two stories being discussed.


You've made your negative feelings about recent "Who" very clear, but I'm honestly unclear what in your mind makes, for instance, Series 9 (which was in my opinion, with the exception of one or two duds, among the BEST runs of "Doctor Who") so inferior to the pre-Moffat era.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Great news for Jeffery, bittersweet news for me:

Series ten will be Steven Moffat's last


"Broadchurch" showrunner Chris Chibnall will take over starting with Series Eleven. He was previously the head writer on the first two series of "Doctor Who" spinoff "Torchwood". During the RTD era, he wrote the real time third series episode "42". During the Moffat era, he reintroduced the Silurians in the fifth series two-parter "The Hungry Earth"/"Cold Blood", put dinosaurs on a spaceship in the seventh series episode of the same name, and gave us one of the more unusual episodes of new "Who" with "The Power of Three" (also in the seventh series).


He's not my favorite new-"Who" writer by a long shot, but I'm just really happy Mark Gatiss isn't taking over, since I've never cared for his "Doctor Who" episodes.


As suspected, "Doctor Who" won't air a new series in 2016. There will be the customary Christmas Special in December, and then Moffat's final series will kick off in Spring 2017. I hope he gives it everything he's got.