Deep Space Nine: For the Fans (1 Viewer)

[Chris]

It's probably good you're watching TNG first, because I personally can barely even watch it after DS9. The characters are good and there are some great episodes, but it's all very bland in comparison.

This is very true. I find it very hard to go back and watch TNG because TNG never really allowed for a lot of character conflict or change. I watched a few episodes of DS9 last night and I really love how relationships and characters changed and had to accept or deal with the changes. Sometimes small changes, sometimes big changes.

 

[JediFonger]

which is why i really think there is still a potential to introduce those conflicts into a TNG film but that never materialized (pun intended). they had 4 chances and blew all 4 chances. *sigh*. coulda' been so much more. lots of potentials gone to waste.

 

[Greg_S_H]

I watched "Move Along Home" last night, and it was pretty bad. But, even in it's badness, you can't hate it. That's just Trek. They were always doing goofy little one-offs like that. It was actually pretty good stuff until the game started, and it had its moments after that. The worst thing about the episode was some of the acting. Siddig was pretty rough at first, with a pretty embarrassing performance in "The Passenger," and in "Move Along" to a lesser extent. And, Visitor's line about, "I didn't sign up for this!" was poorly conceived and poorly delivered.
Thankful, episodes like this are very much the exception. I'm just glad "The Nagus" is coming up. Just thinking about Wallace Shawn makes me LOL.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

which is why i really think there is still a potential to introduce those conflicts into a TNG film but that never materialized (pun intended). they had 4 chances and blew all 4 chances. *sigh*. coulda' been so much more. lots of potentials gone to waste.

While I generally agree with you, it should be pointed out that in the excellent "First Contact" movie there are quite a few confrontational scenes, including the infamous Worf/Picard exchange that led to Worf stating "If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand!" Ultimately, though, this didn't lead to any long term character changes, and I guess that's your point.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

I watched "Move Along Home" last night, and it was pretty bad. But, even in it's badness, you can't hate it. That's just Trek. They were always doing goofy little one-offs like that. It was actually pretty good stuff until the game started, and it had its moments after that. The worst thing about the episode was some of the acting. Siddig was pretty rough at first, with a pretty embarrassing performance in "The Passenger," and in "Move Along" to a lesser extent. And, Visitor's line about, "I didn't sign up for this!" was poorly conceived and poorly delivered.
Thankful, episodes like this are very much the exception. I'm just glad "The Nagus" is coming up. Just thinking about Wallace Shawn makes me LOL.

Yeah ... "Move Along Home" and "If Wishes Were Horses" --both from DS9's first season--were close to being the weakest episodes in the entire run. (A case could be made that "Fascination" from season 3 was the weakest.) And they were still no worse than average Star Trek episodes. That alone tells you how strong this series was.

 

[Sam Favate]

Watched Season 1's "Vortex" last night, and I was impressed with how much of the storyline regarding's Odo's people was set up. I remember when I saw that back in '93 when it aired, I didn't think much of it. But seeing it now, and seeing where the show went with what was established there, I was impressed at the foreshadowing.

 

[Greg_S_H]

I felt the same about a very minor bit of dialog in "The Nagus."
About the fire caves, which would eventually become very important.

 

[JediFonger]

i disagree about FC being excellent. it could've been so much more (hence my point about potential), but it is a rehash of wrath of kahn instead. stick to safe formulas.
i'd love to see Q+Picard again. those 2 bracketed the TNG series and i'd love to see it on the big screen!

Ultimately, though, this didn't lead to any long term character changes, and I guess that's your point.

 

[Greg_S_H]

I didn't mind Move Along or Wishes. The episode I despised from season 1 was Dramatis Personae. Here was an opportunity for real human conflict and drama, the hallmark of DS9, and instead we got altered minds and everybody back to being pals at the end. Why couldn't it have been a legitimate conflict between Sisko and Kira over the way to handle the Valerian ship? As it stands, the issue of the ship's cargo was not even addressed at the end.
From the positive words from the crew, as related in the excellent DS9 Companion, and from the ratings at tv.com I believe I'm in the minority for disliking this episode. Really, though, I think Menosky is far more miss than hit with me. According to the same book, he was out of the country at the time and didn't even have a chance to watch DS9. Maybe that's why it was like he was writing for the old model Trek and didn't realize they were trying to do something different here. Not that DS9 was in full serialized, "what happens now matters later" mode this early. I think I remember from my last DS9 viewing session that his later episodes are also reset button eps, but I can't remember for sure just by the episode titles.

 

[Nick Martin]

You may not have liked "Dramatis Personae", but I loved it simply because I loved seeing Sisko crazy. He went from lazy to nervous to violent, and it was funny and disturbing at the same time.

 

[Greg_S_H]

I'm guessing that most of the participants in this thread are not necessarily watching season one right now, but does anyone recall if they had any glitches towards the beginning of the episode "Duet?" Right after Kira first confronts the Cardassian, and especially during the following scene in Sisko's office, I experienced what I would describe as interlacing errors, even though I'm using a progressive player and television. The movement was a little jerky, with some noticeable lines on the screen. It only happened for a brief time, and the rest of the episode was fine.

 

[Dave Mack]

Greg, although these eps. were shot on film, they were edited and the FX done on video. What kind of Prog scan DVD player do you have? My old JVC which was flag based would get combing and interlace phantoms with the TREK:TNG and Buffy shows on DVD.
I have since gotten a Faroudja chip based player (oppo) and these are no longer seen.
From Secrets of Home theater page...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...e-10-2000.html
"Shot on Film, Edited as Video
A fairly large amount of material these days is shot on film to get a film “look,” then transferred to video for editing and other post-production, as editing and post are much cheaper for video. Almost all episodic TV, music videos, and made-for-TV movies are done this way. This is a torture test for cadence-reading deinterlacers, as each scene will have the 3-2 cadence internally, but edits will more often than not break it, since the makers didn’t care about keeping the film cadence intact. In our test suite, we used More Tales of the City, which is a textbook example of this kind of material. However, you will find that most music videos and made-for-TV material will have the same problem. In addition, shows with lots of special effects have this problem all the time, because often the live action is shot on film and has a 3-2 pulldown pattern, but the effects are produced in a computer and have a 2-2 pulldown pattern. Overlaid titles like subtitles, show credits, dates and places (things that are shown at the bottom of the screen at the beginning of a scene like "New York City, 1856") also tend to work this way - the title generators used for TV are 2-2 coherent, and cause strange cadence glitches. We've seen problems like this on the X-Files, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and many other TV shows on DVD. Even films are not immune: the new footage on the special edition of Star Trek the Motion Picture has 2-2 special effects that screw up the cadence (and the flags)..."
And I'm now at the end of S3 and the show is very, very good.
1/2 of S1 was truly bad. S2 was better. S3 they finally hit their stride and I know it gets better though I really cringe at the Ferengi based eps...

 

[Greg_S_H]

I've got a Denon, and it hasn't been a problem until this particular episode. I'm now curious as to whether or not I'll experience the season 5, I think it is, glitch. I didn't experience it the first time around, but I have a different player now. I'll have to do some research to remember what the season 5 glitch was.
I have to disagree about season 1. Outside of Dramatis Personae, I've enjoyed just about all of it. Just one more episode to go. I am a fan of the Ferengi episodes. I love hearing the Nagus's annoying laugh!

 

[Dave Mack]

exactly, the "annoying" laugh....!!!!
agh!!!
and the actors were stiff as boards through almost the whole first season, it was like watching a high school play 1/2 the time!
Good luck with the glitch! I'm netflixing the discs so I can't check for you!

 

[Nick Martin]

I've found that I just don't enjoy watching older shows like this on the 'better' setup I have. On my LCD television, the image flaws are so obvious it's very distracting. The only thing that keeps me watching a show like this on it is that I can enjoy the surround setup. Otherwise, I prefer watching this show (and Buffy, Alien Nation, and older-looking/mastered shows) on a standard CRT TV. They look fantastic on that. Does that make any sense?
P.S. I'll have a look at "Duet" on both my computer and LCD / progressive scan player.

 

[Greg_S_H]

A lot of 4x3 material is like that. I have a CRT 16x9, and I find that any 4x3 television in the house looks better on standard cable than the 16x9 does. Also, my digital cable 4x3 is several inches wider than 4x3 DVDs. I don't know why that is. They are both the correct ratio, but digital cable is "bigger." The DVDs are more correct, but it looks so small in comparison. Also, the image looks decent from a distance, but very fuzzy if I get too close.

 

[JediFonger]

unfortunately, paramount just doesn't care about quality for their premiere franchise here. they just do a simple telecine from the master without cleaning it and letting fans pay for the ROI. paramount isn't the only ones, FOX's X-Files on SD-DVD also sux, i used to have it, it's terrible looking for a good content show.
i think TNG has fared the worst with DS9, VOY, ENT getting better since they were all newer and newer shows. but don't get me started on the trek films, none of them except the most recent looks good.
they're focused on TOS right now. now THAT looks BETTER THAN than TNG, DS9 and the rest of the series, even on SD-DVD! why can't they spend the $? cause it'll break the bank? there are more episodes for the subsequent series than TOS.

 

[Yee-Ming]

One step at a time? I'd guess the focus on TOS now is because of the "let's update the effects" gimmick, and at the same time they would remaster for a future HD release. No doubt TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT will be revisited in due course, with hi def transfers for re-release on Blu-ray, but they also don't want to overload the fans' wallets with multiple releases at the same time. They are nothing if not expert at ensuring a steady flow of income from the Star Trek franchise. Re-doing all the series at the same time is both a big hit in terms of cost, and will not recoup as much in sales because of sheer fatigue on the part of fans.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

A lot of 4x3 material is like that. I have a CRT 16x9, and I find that any 4x3 television in the house looks better on standard cable than the 16x9 does. Also, my digital cable 4x3 is several inches wider than 4x3 DVDs. I don't know why that is. They are both the correct ratio, but digital cable is "bigger." The DVDs are more correct, but it looks so small in comparison. Also, the image looks decent from a distance, but very fuzzy if I get too close.

Greg:
If your Widescreen display has a "Native" aspect ratio mode you will find that your 4:3 DVDs will have the same width as your digital cable 4:3 presentations. Again, use "Native" and not "16:9" or "4:3" for the aspect ratio.
On the DS9 transfers, the "fuzziness" is partially due to the compression technology of the day. Back when DS9 was transferred to DVD (2001) it was a daunting task to put close to 4 hours of video on a disc and maintain good black levels without "mosquito noise". This is especially true of a show like DS9 which contains a preponderance of dark scenes. The compression technology has improved by a factor of 10 since then and it's no problem now.

 

[Nick Martin]

Yeah. Watching on a standard CRT TV makes these DVDs look like the best of the best of broadcasts, where as any other type or monitor (HD CRT, LCD, Plasma) makes the image so clear that all the image flaws and compression noise are clearly visible and distracting. Not remotely as bad as standard cable on an HD monitor though. Now THAT'S horrible.