Apple and PC: the discussion continues. (1 Viewer)

[RobertR]

Yet...

The Mac platform is getting there slowly

Exactly. A lot of "yets" and "getting there" "slowly". Neither of these posts contradict what I said. They only reinforce it.

 

[DaveF]

Let the big people do their work with serious machines, not fischer-price flower covered toys

I didn't realize that a computer's power and usefulness is directly related to its case design. It must be a corollary to a similar automotive law: red cars are faster than all other cars.
I'm not a particular fan of Macs (was always put off by their price and a few interface issues), but until about 1996 the Mac OS was far ahead of Windows, in terms of user-interface. But I think Win98 caught up with OS8 & 9 in, generally. But OSX may have pulled the Macs ahead once again.

 

[Joseph S]

Mac OS 8-9 does DD/DTS with DVD since '98 with elecede and wiredinc. Mac OS X does DD/DTS in certain apps and the capability is systemwide already, but not their DVD player at this point. Custom resolutions are possible but an OS X tool has not come out yet along the lines of switchres. I have tried a working OS X beta some 3 months ago and it seemed to be coming along ok at that point.

As for saying almosts, if it was so perfect on the PC platform why are there so many almosts there too??

The M-audio cards are a nightmare in 98/2k, the Radeon hasn't had interlaced DVD overlay in 2 years and the only drivers that do so only work in 98. The new HDTV dongle requires custom 15 pin extenders and you can't eliminate oversan with it and must rip macrovision DVDs to play at interlaced. What a waste of time.

Firewire support is iffy at best and the hardware removal tool is not very reliable. The support for low level external USB/Firewire drivers is non-existant as well as a bootable true OS environment from a CD. Via audio drivers leave people in fits with not in sync A&V. Their USB drivers are the abysmal and HiPix users are relying on Open Source drivers by people without any access to the device driver code.

The fact is that there are problems on both platforms. This is why I'm not happy with either for HTPC. None of the PC problems seem to have any resolution in sight as ATI refuses to release the interlaced enabled drivers and HiPix will not allow the developers to access the code. MyHD is not opensouce and the other HDTV card maker is apparently doing nothing at all. Nvidia does not seem interested in HiRes output and the recently released Matrox video card has received poor marks along with a high price tag.

If it was so perfect I would be a very happy man. Unfortunately, there are major issues I'm having on both ends. Seeing the improvements in the Mac and mac developer products makes me think a HTMac that does what I need is far more likely in the next year than an HTPC ever will.

 

[RobertR]

if it was so perfect on the PC platform

I didn't say "perfect". I said there's no good solution for the Mac, and you haven't said anything to show that statement is wrong. I see plenty of posts in the AVS Forum and from people I know happily using PC-based HTPCs that give them DD/DTS and custom resolutions (including interlaced) and refresh rates. I'd call that a good solution. There's no "almost" for them. You've said nothing that shows they can achieve the same results with a Mac.

 

[Mike Sogge]

Yes, you are correct in saying there is no good solution (in most eyes) for HTPC on the Mac. However, in my opinion it's not all that great on the PC either. Joseph essentially pointed out that current HTPC is a hack job. Until either a Mac HTPC becomes a viable solution or HTPC isn't a pain in the ass I'll stick with my stand alone DVD player, reciever, and RPTV.

 

[DaveF]

I'm curious what Mac users think about
this editorial, which discusses many weaknesses about Macs, that (allegedly) the Mac faithful refuse to admit.
Some of the comments seemed exaggerated, some a bit out-dated, but others seemed likely. But I don't use Macs currently, so I don't know.
Thoughts?

 

[David Lawson]

Well, regardless of his mention of the "Megahertz Myth", he falls into the age-old trap of equating processor speed with processor power. This is not to say that the G4 will best anything out there, but it's obvious that this argument is flawed when a G4 processor can often keep pace, if not outperform, a processor with a 1 GHz speed advantage.
He's also a bit generous concerning Windows 98's stability, in my opinion. I've never had to remove the power cord or the battery in order to reboot from a system freeze, either, and I note that there's no link to the article which makes that claim.
Even the Mac faithful bitch about Motorola, so that's nothing new.
It can be argued that Steve Jobs has as much influence over the Mac faithful as he does over the rest of the industry, which is evident in most of the peripherals and cases on the market today, and the "look and feel" of Windows XP, to an extent. Some even try to match his charisma and enthusiasm on stage (such as Microsoft's Link Removed), with disastrous results. Yes, the Mac faithful tend to get overexcited about new product releases that may or may not be the next killer app, but given the alternative, can you blame them?

 

[RobertR]

Until either a Mac HTPC becomes a viable solution or HTPC isn't a pain in the ass I'll stick with my stand alone DVD player, reciever, and RPTV.

I understand that you and Joseph consider a PC-based HTPC a "pain in the ass". However, there are quite a few people happily using them, and getting superb results that beat the pants off any other approach, especially from a cost/performance standpoint. The same can't be said for the Mac. NO ONE with a front projector is using one that I've EVER heard of. I think that's a big difference.

 

[Josh Lowe]

The M-audio cards are a nightmare in 98/2k, the Radeon hasn't had interlaced DVD overlay in 2 years and the only drivers that do so only work in 98. The new HDTV dongle requires custom 15 pin extenders and you can't eliminate oversan with it and must rip macrovision DVDs to play at interlaced. What a waste of time.

1. No experience with the M-audio cards so I can't comment.

2. Run a dual boot system. Win2k or WinXP w/ the latest drivers for regular viewing and Win98 SE w/ the old drivers for those occasions that you want to run 1080i.

3. Why would you waste time w/ ATI's dongle when you can get a Key Digital transcoder which has no such limitations and is a superior product overall?

 

[Joseph S]

3. Why would you waste time w/ ATI's dongle when you can get a Key Digital transcoder which has no such limitations and is a superior product overall?

Because ATI has decided to permanently cripple the drivers and impose limitations on all VGA/DVI output. There is no way to get interlaced DVD overlay without the dongle. The Audio Authority and Key Digital can get some an interlaced desktop, but the DVD is crippled. Yeah, I now own two separate devices and neiter is the proper solution. The Dongle has no way to eliminate overscan and will also not work unless you rip the DVD to remove Macrovision too.

 

[Josh Lowe]

Because ATI has decided to permanently cripple the drivers and impose limitations on all VGA/DVI output. There is no way to get interlaced DVD overlay without the dongle.

Run the older driver and use a transcoder?

 

[Joseph S]

Run the older driver and use a transcoder?

The driver is incompatible with ATI's 8500 cards and only runs in Win98.

 

[Joseph S]

Since this thread originally dealt with this topic, I've found one of the ads that is quite amusing...
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/ellenfeiss.html

Enjoy

 

[Josh Lowe]

The driver is incompatible with ATI's 8500 cards and only runs in Win98.

Right, but if you're building an HTPC the Radeon 7000/7200/7500 seems to be a more popular choice than the 8500, anyway. Cheaper, too. I got a retail Radeon 7000 with 64 megs of DDR ram dirt cheap for my HTPC buildup. I'll be running WinXP for everything but interlaced display, Win98 SE for that.