A.I. Pan and Scan - LAME Spielberg, LAME!!! (1 Viewer)

[Sam Davatchi]

Peter D, great joke!

 

[Carlo_M]

Michael, were you at the HTF meet this last year? I was at the L.A. HTF Meet in May and when speaking with studio people, there is a very real struggle going on internally about P&S vs. OAR releases.

I only wish it were a "Chicken Little" scenario.

Now this is not to say that OAR is going away any time soon, but the issue is there and being debated inside the studios. It is not some radical, alarmist point of view held by a minority.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...

 

[Peter Rohlfs]

I remember before Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 1st came out on videotape Spielberg was giving interviews on the importance of WS and said that is why Crusade will be available WS on videotape.

So I went to my RKO video and preordered the WS version (more than 2X the price of the regular when on sale).

When it came in it was on SVHS. To date the only time I've seen an SVHS release in a video store. I couldn't use it and had to return it for store credit.

His support for WS has always been ... bizarre.

Kudos to GL for doing TPM right. Now if only he and SS would give me my Indy films OAR on DVD...

Peter

 

[John Beavers]

Damn. I was going to rent this first, but since the Video rental outfits will stock only the P&S version I am now forced to buy it if I want to watch it. And to think I have been hoping for wider acceptance of the DVD medium. My bad

 

[Charles J P]

Internet retailers will never "cave" They have much better inventory tracking the B&Ms and their customers already know what they are buying. Not like the Grinch P&S movie selling better because people just get it home and then dont care that its cropped. People who buy on the internet will just check the box for which version they want. I really cant see anyone accidentally buying the wrong version off the internet, but Im sure people pick up the "wrong" version in the store all the time just because it was an impulse buy anyway.

 

[Mark_TS]

...perhaps because AI did so poorly, Dreamworks is trying to MAXIMIZE sales,

in throwing a bone to 'J6P', and hoping s/he'll bite...otherwise selling an 'ought-film'

with the horrible 'black bars' would make this a very losing proposition...

 

[Anthony_H]

Let's not turn this into the pick on Micheal Reuben... but in regards to the "chicken little" comment... I'm such a petty person that I'm salavating at the chance to say in about two years..in a sing-songy manner.."I told you so". I'm not saying widescreen titles will be totally gone...but in the best case scenario..they will be sporadic... difficult to find...and at a premium price. Think of finding widescreen VHS currently and multiply frustration by a factor of five. Let me put in my teeth before saying this.." At least when I had Laserdisc.. I could always count on widescreen." You all wanted wide acceptance for DVD.... revel in it. Hehehehawhaw(cough)...

 

[Carlo_M]

Anthony,

I don't think any of us wanted DVD to become what VHS is (as far as being a mass-market driven industry).

We wanted to have it be popular enough to get most of the titles transfered to the format (remember when there were only a few studios on board and only about 500 titles? I do) but to keep it away from becoming a Pan & Scan medium.

Of course, that's a delicate line that we knew the industry couldn't balance. In order to have maximum movie output, you have to try to maximize profitability, and that means making it appeal to the masses.

Do we want P&S? Hell no! But would we rather have been at the niche market with maybe 5000 titles to choose from? No again. We have to accept that DVD has hit the mainstream, and try to do what we can to help keep it from mirroring what has happened with VHS...

 

[Tom Brennan]

I'm surprised Spielberg would allow this, he was an early supporter of widescreen films on home video. I guess this is just a casualty of the success of the format.

 

[Michael Reuben]

At least when I had Laserdisc.. I could always count on widescreen.

While it seems almost churlish to disagree with you on anything after that spirited (and much appreciated) defense, this old chestnut is a phony. Many releases on LD were only available in P&S (or full frame, or whatever). This has come up before and everyone chimes in with their favorite examples. Off the top of my head:
The Last Seduction
The Grifters
Postcards from the Edge
Miller's Crossing
I've never done the numbers, but on a percentage basis, I'll bet the number of P&S-only releases was higher on LD than on DVD.
I've said it before and it remains true: Today there are more titles available in OAR than at any other time in the history of home video. And that's because DVD was created as a popular medium. The market is not so simple as the doomsayers assume.
One further observation: The merciless contempt for popular taste that's routinely displayed in threads like this one is truly ironic. Where the hell does everyone think movies came from -- a cultural elite? From their very inception, movies were an artform created for the people so readily dismissed on this forum as "the masses" or "JP6s". Without the mass market, this great hobby of our wouldn't even exist.
M.

 

[Brad_W]

Geez, this is the last film that would appeal to J6P

To our thinking... yes. But to their's... no. If you look into the mind of the J6P, they'll see Haley, Speilberg, and a talking bear. They won't see much more than that and rent it. That is probably all they need and/or want. Which is fine for them... and Speilberg and everyone else that profits from the sales. But I would agree with you.

 

[Patrick Larkin]

Michael Reuben is correct. The WS format won't go away, it will just become RARE. The main point in starting this thread was that when there is a dual release, rental outlets will choose the P&S version. This leaves the informed consumer out of luck. If I want to rent The Grinch or The Mummy Returns to get a cheap thrill, I CAN'T. Blockbuster and Hollywood will only stock the P&S version. And unless you live in a major city or a tiny town, Ma and Pa video stores just DO NOT exist anymore. We are forced to rent from these places. I don't want to waste my money buying the Mummy movies.
It's similar to my Macintosh woes. First, places like Best Buy had a Mac software section. Then it became a tiny Mac section. Now, there is NO Mac section. We as Mac users see the Windows user as J6P. J6P won the war of the desktop by buying cheap mass produced PC's and killed our market.
As J6P speaks with their wallet and kills WS in rental places and Best Buy's, WS will become a non-factor like Macs in the retail space.
The Mac community is still thriving and there is tons of software, if you are willing to seek out the Ma and Pa Apple store, the official Apple stores, or online etailers.
So, to say that this isn't a big deal is ludicrous. It IS a big deal. I can see it now, the big cardboard display of AI with one slot of widescreens.
The only solution is dual format releases. Kind of like games that ship with the Windows and Mac versions on the same CD.

 

[Ryan Peter]

Sorry, but the Mac/PC analogy doesn't cut it. It assumes the Mac is superior, which I'm not sure is the truth.

 

[Dave H]

If most directors believe in OAR, why not just insist that all their movies on DVD be made that way? J6P will just have to live with it and will still buy or rent them if they want to see the movie. I'm glad to see Richard Donner didn't fold into Warner Bros. for Goonies or Superman. The same can be said of Lucas with Episode I. Where are the Pan and Scans for these movies? Look at how many J6P's bought Episode I. They live with the "black bars".

 

[Patrick Larkin]

Sorry, but the Mac/PC analogy doesn't cut it. It assumes the Mac is superior, which I'm not sure is the truth.

Thats irrelevant. J6P said Windows PCs were superior. J6P won.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Need we even mention the beta/vhs brouhaha?

 

[Ted Todorov]

I've said it before and it remains true: Today there are more titles available in OAR than at any other time in the history of home video. And that's because DVD was created as a popular medium. The market is not so simple as the doomsayers assume.
One further observation: The merciless contempt for popular taste that's routinely displayed in threads like this one is truly ironic. Where the hell does everyone think movies came from -- a cultural elite? From their very inception, movies were an artform created for the people so readily dismissed on this forum as "the masses" or "JP6s". Without the mass market, this great hobby of our wouldn't even exist.

Michael,
I completely agree with your point #1 but mostly disagree with number 2.
While American Pie may not have come from a cultural elite the fact is that a great many movies do. From the French New Wave directors who were all sophisticated film critics before they became filmmakers to everyone from Atom Egoyan to Steven Soderbergh and yes, even Spielberg these people are the very picture of a cultural elite. If you wish to dispute this point I'd be glad to offer a detailed argument, but I think if you look at the individuals, the case becomes pretty obvious.
So far as doom and gloom predictions on the eminent takeover of P&S, time will tell, I firmly predict that nothing of the sort will happen. Just look at TV -- I rarely do, but because of that I notice the differences from one time to the next. Every other commercial seems to be letterboxed. Every other music video -- LBX. The letterbox has become a symbol of high style and sophistication. Now that Madison Ave. has latched on to it, there is no going back. Combine that with the worldwide market penetration of 16:9 TVs and there is absolutely no going back. OAR is the future!
About the term J6P -- enough of this American cultural imperialism -- a lot of other cultures wouldn't even know what a 6-pack is -- beer gets sold by the bottle. We need more terms -- here is my proposal from J6P's frog^H^H^H^H French cousin: Pierre Vin Ordinaire! No one knows who coined J6P, but I claim full credit for this one...
Ted

 

[Jefferson Morris]

Not being a retailer, the following is all speculation on my part.

While I wouldn't count myself as a "Chicken Little" alarmist, I would think that if the decision is made to offer a title P&S, it can't be justified unless retailers make sure that the P&S version vastly outnumbers the OAR version by a wide margin.

The reason is simple. The average J6P who doesn't like OAR probably doesn't even pay enough attention to distinguish the P&S from the OAR versions when he's browsing in the video store. He'll just grab one at random, and if he inadvertently picks up an OAR copy, he'll be pissed.

The logical step for the retail chain (as opposed to the specialty video geek store) is to make damn sure the great majority of copies of popular videos are P&S, if P&S is available. Those who prefer OAR are the kind who will check the box, and play hide and seek if necessary, to find what they want. They won't pick up P&S by accident.

Thus those with more discerning tastes will be marginalized and forced to go the extra mile to get what they want. Now this may well be the way of the world, but that doesn't mean we should go quietly into the night. We should fight to keep this "golden age" of affordable, OAR DVDs going as long as possible.

Remember, education is key. Keep those widescreen vs. P&S pamphlets flying, and educate your friends. Many times I've knelt awkwardly in front of my television, manually masking off the edges of a letterboxed movie (usually by holding up a couple of LDs at each end), when a friend has asked me why the black bars are there. If your friends are smart (like mine) this works.

--Jefferson Morris

 

[wally]

Saw AI in the theater, and I won't be buying/renting/watching the OAR or P&S. What a waste of time. While Legally Blonde was the sleeper hit of the year, AI was the huge disapointment of the year.

MHO

 

[Rob Robinson]

exactly. people need to remember that things don't always make sense, and they're not often fair; lately it seems most things aren't "fair" (like media salaries skyrocketing - katie couric getting 100 million for the today show?- while everyone else gets laidoff); but i digress).

the point is, just becuase something is "better" doesn't mean it's going to fly in the "market".

beta, mac os, the metric system- if you put all of these technologies before a martian antrhopologist who could care less about politics and business, there would be very little room for debate- in terms of features, ease of use, and every other tangible variable, they'd all win hands down...

unfortunatly for us, it seems shit likes to stick to the wall, and that's what we have to live with.

its annoying that blockbuster won't use it's leadership position to help "the cause"; i'm sure they want dvd to be VHS and stop rocking the boat.

its annoying that universal won't use it's leadership position to educate it's customers- but i suppose they'll want to figure out anoter way or two to rebuy our enture movie collections again before they can rollout their "pay as you watch" scheme.

so, yeah, big business will not be contributing anything positive in this area. which leaves-

it's SUPER annoying that spielberg can't use his clout to educate the consumer. He really could have made a case to the public in the name of filmmaking.

i guess filmmakers are about as helpful as big business...

fuck it. enjoy it while it lasts.

i have never purchased movies before last year; i've picked up about 100, the vast bulk OAR/widescreen- the only PS i have is True Stories, from before I knew better. I suppose I'll stop as soon as widescreen flicks cost $119, or howevermuch you laser people paid.

at any rate, i'm jaded enough to think that "owning" movies will not be around much longer anyway. AOLTIMEWARNERVIVENDI PARAMOUNTUNIVERSALSONYTRISTAR.COM will be streaming us video on demand, with personal archiving/collecting out of the picture of course.