A.I. Pan and Scan - LAME Spielberg, LAME!!! (1 Viewer)

[Brett Cameron]

Well Dreamworks is added to my shit list. Right next to Warner and Universal.

Dreamworks is releasing a widescreen version too, I do not understand why they would be added to your sh*t list. They have been doing OAR anamorphic since their first dvds. Yell at the stores for demanding the P&S versions, not Dreamworks. If their is demand and money to be made on a P&S version of course they are going to be released,like it or not, they are in the business to make money.

 

[Paul_D]

I know this has been dealt with directly above, but its so ridiculous that I thought I'd comment too...

The merciless contempt for popular taste that's routinely displayed in threads like this one is truly ironic. Where the hell does everyone think movies came from -- a cultural elite? From their very inception, movies were an artform created for the people so readily dismissed on this forum as "the masses" or "JP6s". Without the mass market, this great hobby of our wouldn't even exist.

I really like this guy!

 

[Robert Crawford]

I couldn't agree with Michael Reuben more that there's an unhealthy and unpleasant tone that pervades this forum's discussion about the "masses." (I don't even like to write that loaded word)

It has always bothered me that certain members of this forum speak about the "average consumer" as an inferior consumer or person. A few people need to get off their high horse and stop the delusion that they're somehow superior to others! The lack of understanding or appreciation of OAR is mostly due to ignorance which has nothing to do with lack of intelligence but simply means they're lacking in knowledge. We are all ignorant in some way(s)!

Crawdaddy

 

[MathewM]

Those defending the 'average joe' have a valid point in being more objective with our hobby. However, as I stated before, Dreamworks is pandering to the ignorant with the p/s A.I. release. I admired A.I. quite a bit, it wasn't perfect but it has a history behind it that intrigues me. I pisses me off to no end that say a person who might of missed the film in theaters (say a young budding filmmaker) who doesn't have enough money to buy the film and will have to settle for a rental instead. Here you have this loaded 2 disc special edition with tons of behind the scenes making of materials, yet the most important thing, the film itself is a butchered, dumbed down version of the original work. Doesn't make sense does it. And yes, this applies to 'mass appealling crap' such as mummy returns as well. If they are going to do this, the p/s version should not contain anything more than outtakes (the dumb ones like actors flubbing their lines, that the average joe finds so appealing) and extremely short bios' of only the main actors / actresses.

Also I just saw one those totally infactual Blockbuster commercials featuring the widescreen version of Jurassic Park 3, however you won't find a single WS copy at a local store. Those SOB's still owe me $15 in overcharged late fees. I can't wait until video on demand finally puts them out of buisiness for good.

 

[Justin Lane]

So let me get this right... Dreamworks is putting A.I out in widescreen yet people are still complaining.

Choice is always good. Personally I always go for the OAR version, but if someone does not want OAR for whatever reason, that is their perogative. Kind of like the DTS supporters wanting a DTS track on every disc... studios could just as easily decide to do away with tracks other than DD all together, but they give us choices which pleases more customers and at the same time sells more discs.

I will let you in on another dirty little secret.... There are many times more titles in OAR only or in OAR/P&S then there are P&S only titles.

J

 

[TheLongshot]

However, as I stated before, Dreamworks is pandering to the ignorant with the p/s A.I. release.

No, they are pandering to the realities of the market. One which there are still some people want the option to see a film P&S, which there are some people out there that do.

I don't understand why people are getting their panties in a bunch over this. There is a widescreen version readily available. It isn't like Warner and their "family" titles, where they don't deem some films necissary of the WS treatment. Personally, I think having options are good.

Here is a question: would you rather Dreamworks take out some of the extras on the DVD to put the P&S version on the DVD? Somehow, I don't think that would be very popular...

Jason

 

[Patrick Larkin]

I don't understand why people are getting their panties in a bunch over this.

A repeating theme on Page 3 of this thread. Did you read the beginning of the thread where the "why" is clearly laid out?

- Becasue rental chains will stock the P&S version exclusively. (Not everyone has the cash or desire to buy certain films nor does everyone have choice in where they can rent.)

- The widescreen copies of dual release are fewer in number in large retail establishments.

- Only a matter of time until the OAR version is hard to find and sold at a premium.

As far as the use of the term J6P, lighten up. To me it means people that don't care or don't know about OAR. When it comes to things like chess or phlebotomy, I am J6P. I don't know ANYTHING about the topic or don't care.

We are ALL J6P. Relax.

 

[Kwang Suh]

- Only a matter of time until the OAR version is hard to find and sold at a premium.

Here we go again with the doom and gloom. I can't predict the future. Neither can any one of the other members on the forum.

 

[MathewM]

Jason and others,
Please read my entire post before quoting a part of it. It is rather insulting to take snippits of what a person has said and to use it against them. My opinion is just as, if not more valid than your "choices are good" argument.
I suppose I'll simplify for those who are too dense to grasp the uncertain concequences of dual releases. First off, there simply is not room in the marketplace for dual releases. That is why so many of us are getting "our panties tied in knots" as you so J6P put it. Unfortunately, over the next year or two we'll start to see more and more dual releases. Stores such as Costco, Target, Walmart however will keep stocking only the pan/scam titles. The market is slowly dictating that pan/scan is the best alternative to appease the consumer. Blockbuster which destroyed the rental industry ten years ago will now go on to destroy the DVD market. They are doing this now. Just imagine next Christmas when every new release from WB, MGM, Disney and now Dreamworks is released as two separate discs. Those of us who love to stroll into the closest B/M on tuesday to get the best deal on a new release will be relegated to nary a store or two instead. Best Buy so far has been great on supporting OAR, stocking more copies etc. However once they're the only one in town stocking OAR releases you can bet that the sales won't be there as well as fewer copies.
So Jason, how well does you "choices are good" argument hold up now?
Rant over.and out.

 

[Jeff]

Jason, there will be no choice. Not for those going to rent AI at most video stores.

Jeff

 

[Rob Robinson]

lifted from a recently started thread:
"As I braved the crowds at Best Buy today, to do a little Christmas shopping, I made my mandatory visit to the DVD section. While browsing the family section I noticed several copies of Cats and Dogs in Widescreen. It was then I noticed a startling difference.
The widescreen versions were priced at 24.99 while the P&S versions which were in higher numbers were labeled at 22.99. Uninformed customers are obviously going to buy the cheaper version, even if they are not looking specifically for aspect ratios. "
so, for those of you that think that either the disappearance and/or premium markup of widescreen/OAR disks is something only "crazy" people are worried about, listen up; it's starting to happen, and it's a very real threat. Hell, haven't important people on this board had conversations with important decision makers at studios stated as much in simple english? It's a mistake to assume you/we are "entitled" to widescreen just becuase it's right or it makes sense. And say what you want about classism and elitism- if for every 1 guy with 1500 dvds there are 11 dumbasses at walmart foaming at the mouth about "missing half the picture", there is trouble ahead.
Anyone with even the most modest amount of internet savvy knows that aol is horrible compared to the "real" internet. Yet the inferior, pandering to the masses online service is crushing all of the real service providers put together.
I don't know, if someone didn't understand DHCP, PPP, and TCP/IP, I would hope they don't get a lot of speaking time at the discussions on the future of the internet's underpinnings. And along those lines, yes, it pisses me off that people that have no real understanding of aspect ratios and the technical capacities of the format are dictating what's available to me, or anyone else who does understand a bit about the above 2 things.
you can either help out and write letters to retailers and studios, or you can sit back and hope that the noble executives make the right decisions as they go over their bottom lines... :rolleyes

 

[Michael Reuben]

I suppose I'll simplify for those who are too dense to grasp the uncertain concequences of dual releases.

You don't make your arguments more persuasive by impugning the intelligence of those who disagree with you.

M.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I suppose I'll simplify for those who are too dense to grasp the uncertain concequences of dual releases.

Matthew,
Your above quote is very insulting and you need to temper your comments when expressing and defending your opinion, without inferring others that disagree with you are not smart enough to understand your argument.
Crawdaddy

 

[MathewM]

I apologize for my crankyness and I hope no one was offended.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Personally I think we should be happy Dreamworks is releasing two versions instead of releasing just one P&S version.

Or worse, A "Mask of Zorro: SE" release, which gives you essentially a table coaster for the second disc. As long as the OAR version keep on coming, I have no qualms about a seperate P&S version.

 

[Jacob_St]

No one is forcing you to use the second disc for anything Adam, just leave it in the case. Anyway the extras are usually spread across both discs so the second DVD will not be worthless. If it bothers you so much ebay the second disc and make some extra cash instead of using it as a coaster. I'm tired of people ignoring the complaints of those of us on this board who rent. We have a very valid reason for preferring one two disc over two separate releases. Our beef is certainly more valid than the "I just don't want that second disc in my case" argument. If it bothers you that much then throw it away or give it to a relative. End of rant.

 

[John Morris]

During my conversation about JP3, with the Blockbuster folks in Dallas on Friday, they point blank told me that they were told that they were only allowed to use the P&S versions for rental and the widescreen for sale by the studio itself. They told me that if I wanted to see that changed, I should call the studios who are producing the DVDs. They then went on to say that we should try to urge the studios to put both versions on each DVD and then everyone would be happy. When I said, no way, that would virtually eliminate extras and commentary tracks, they said... no one watches that anyway. DOH! I am afraid if we do not mount a DIVX type campaign quickly, we are gonna lose our widescreen releases totally... :frowning:

 

[TheLongshot]

- Only a matter of time until the OAR version is hard to find and sold at a premium.

You are making an assumption, one that I don't think holds up. I'd need to check an actual store for an older title to make sure.

As for the Cats & Dogs thing, I think it is very possible that titles were mismarked. Checking BestBuy.com they are both listed at the same price.

My only complaint with these dual releases is that it isn't always clearly marked what version you are getting. Some are better than others, but a title like "Remember The Titans" was pretty misleading.

I don't think they will do it because they are going to be nailed hard by us when they do. I mean, Warner changed their tune when they were going to release Willy Wonka P&S only and a lot of us had a fit. I think with all the widescreen that has been done on DVD all of this time probably has educated a few people along the way. Also, WS is a growing desire. I mean, in the few years before DVD, WS VHS was starting to pick up in popularity (where it was nonexistant before).

Also, the question would be, why would the studios want to change the paridigm? Where is going P&S only in the best interest of the studios? The best interest is still served by doing both formats, since there are still sizable fans of both.

Jason

 

[Patrick Larkin]

Yes, Blockbuster all video stores. BUT if you live in a town like mine, which is average American small city, there is NO alternative to Blockbuster and Hollywood. None. (Actually, there are 48 Hours which also carry P&S only.) Unless you live in a large city of a small town which can actually support Ma and PA video stores, you're out of luck. I don't rent much either so Netflix would be a waste of money. I rent only those titles that aren't worthy of a purchase...

What do the studios have to gain? Saving x dollars on producing widget A. Simple.

 

[Michael Reuben]

I'm not sure how much more life this thread has in it, but let's try something.
Everyone who's still interested in this debate, please note the length of time that you've been buying and/or renting disc-based software (whether LD or DVD). It would be interesting to see whether hands-on familiarity with the history of widescreen software has any correlation with one's views on whether widescreen is currently in danger.
I'll start. I've been buying and renting LDs and DVDs for just over ten years. The most notable and consistent trend throughout that period has been the increasing and accelerating availability of the widescreen format.
Note to Patrick Larkin: If you're having trouble finding widescreen locally, and you don't like the Netflix model, try renting from DVD Overnight.
M