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A Few Words About A few words about...™ Hawaii -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

OliverK

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I generally find seating distance to solve issues with older formats for me provided they are not cropped which I hate intensely. When I get that distance right older formats can still be watchable, something like this for a 16:9 screen:

4K/UHD: 1 screen width
Blu-ray 1.25 screen widths
other 1080 sources (streaming/TV) 1.5 screen widths
SD DVD 2 to 2.5 screen widths
SD LD 2.5 to 3 screen widths

This is with a projection setup, a 3 or 4 way masking system and memory presets in the projector would be perfect for this, Sitting at the appropriate distance from the screen whether it is projection or a solid state TV obviously works, too :)

Last week I watched Westbound (1959) projected at about 6.5 ft screen width and a distance of 13.5 ft from the screen and that worked out pretty well even for a DVD that was no exactly stellar. I might have gone a bit wider for a movie that was shot in scope and on a better quality DVD.
 

Joe Caps

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By: Joe Caps (Member)

Bot the new Twilight Time blu ray, mainly because I wanted the parts of the score NOT available on the Varese Club CD.

Other surprises were in store.
I had never seen the short version of the film.
Back then, one would take the existing prints of the film and simply edit out the now extra scenes.
Here, new opticals have been made to overlap from one cut to another.

Second surprise, the roadshow version (supposedly used on the laser) looks FAR better here than it did on the laser.

third surprise - all of the day for night scenes in the short version are day here, by mistake. That's sloppy of mgm/ua but what can you expect from them?


Its too bad the road show, which now looks so much better than before, does not have the stereo track created for the laser disc (why?). but the roadshow does look so much better now.
Even the missing scenes look far better here than before.
I thought the roadshow was going to be strictly a letterbox transfer, but on my disc it is 16 X9.!!!
 

bruceames

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I generally find seating distance to solve issues with older formats for me provided they are not cropped which I hate intensely. When I get that distance right older formats can still be watchable, something like this for a 16:9 screen:

4K/UHD: 1 screen width
Blu-ray 1.25 screen widths
other 1080 sources (streaming/TV) 1.5 screen widths
SD DVD 2 to 2.5 screen widths
SD LD 2.5 to 3 screen widths

That's a good rule of thumb. People say that they won't appreciate the difference between 1080p and 4K, but what the higher resolution does, is enable you to watch a bigger display and/or move up closer for a more immersive experience. When I bought my 4K TV, the first thing I wanted to do was sit up closer.

As for the Hawaii roadshow, leaving it window-boxed, the screen width is about 42" on my TV (65" diagonal). I watch from approximately 84" away, so that puts me in the lower SD DVD range of 2:1 screen widths (or using the diagonal formula, a 1.6:1 ratio). That's why I couldn't zoom it from that viewing distance. That's as big as I could see it in that level of quality.
 

bruceames

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By: Joe Caps (Member)

Second surprise, the roadshow version (supposedly used on the laser) looks FAR better here than it did on the laser.

That's nice to know. Since it's never been released on DVD before, it's really great that TT was able to include this as an extra, and having it be the best quality ever seen on home video.
 

haineshisway

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By: Joe Caps (Member)

Bot the new Twilight Time blu ray, mainly because I wanted the parts of the score NOT available on the Varese Club CD.

Other surprises were in store.
I had never seen the short version of the film.
Back then, one would take the existing prints of the film and simply edit out the now extra scenes.
Here, new opticals have been made to overlap from one cut to another.

Second surprise, the roadshow version (supposedly used on the laser) looks FAR better here than it did on the laser.

third surprise - all of the day for night scenes in the short version are day here, by mistake. That's sloppy of mgm/ua but what can you expect from them?


Its too bad the road show, which now looks so much better than before, does not have the stereo track created for the laser disc (why?). but the roadshow does look so much better now.
Even the missing scenes look far better here than before.
I thought the roadshow was going to be strictly a letterbox transfer, but on my disc it is 16 X9.!!!

So, you have the ONE disc where the 4x3 transfer is 16x9? I don't think so, Joe. Something is screwy somewhere and what's on the disc is on all the discs. And as I've already posted, whatever the sound is on the old laserdisc transfer it's not 1.0 on the Blu-ray's version of that transfer because it's coming out of all speakers. So, something is zooming the transfer in your set-up, so, no, don't anyone get excited by this "revelation." :)
 
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Dr Griffin

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So, you have the ONE disc where the 4x3 transfer is 16x9? I don't think so, Joe. Something is screwy somewhere and what's on the disc is on all the discs. And as I've already posted, whatever the sound is on the old laserdisc transfer it's not 1.0 because it's coming out of all speakers. So, something is zooming the transfer in your set-up, so, no, don't anyone get excited by this "revelation." :)

Too late.
 

Worth

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A few players automatically zoom in letterboxed content if the disc is flagged correctly.
 

Brandon Conway

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Quick question, as someone who has never seen the film:

I read on another forum that there are no subtitles for spoken Hawaiian dialogue on the short non-roadshow version, but that there are subtitles for this content on the longer roadshow version. Is this report accurate? If so, is this an oversight of MGM and/or Twilight Time that may get corrected?

Thanks!
 

Mark-P

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So, you have the ONE disc where the 4x3 transfer is 16x9? I don't think so, Joe. Something is screwy somewhere and what's on the disc is on all the discs. And as I've already posted, whatever the sound is on the old laserdisc transfer it's not 1.0 on the Blu-ray's version of that transfer because it's coming out of all speakers. So, something is zooming the transfer in your set-up, so, no, don't anyone get excited by this "revelation." :)
I just got the disc today. I've got to disagree with you Bruce on the soundtrack on the Roadshow on the BD. It is mono just like the Theatrical version. Both are encoded as DTS-HD MA 1.0 and only come through the center speaker. However both versions also include an isolated music track which IS in stereo.
 

Mark-P

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I thought the roadshow was going to be strictly a letterbox transfer, but on my disc it is 16 X9.!!!

It's not 16X9 enhanced, Joe. Your player is zooming it. Blu-ray players are funny that way, in that they will sometimes do that.
 

haineshisway

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I just got the disc today. I've got to disagree with you Bruce on the soundtrack on the Roadshow on the BD. It is mono just like the Theatrical version. Both are encoded as DTS-HD MA 1.0 and only come through the center speaker. However both versions also include an isolated music track which IS in stereo.

I can only tell you how it is on my system. Theatrical, center speaker only - roadshow side speakers absolutely active.
 

John Skoda

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I can only tell you how it is on my system. Theatrical, center speaker only - roadshow side speakers absolutely active.

Mine is coming out of all front speakers too, but channel indicator says one channel of sound on theatrical and roadshow, but two (fake stereo) on isolated scores.

I verified with headphones--both versions have pure mono audio with fake stereo on the isolated score audio channels.
 

Joe Caps

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Bruce two things-
put the roadshow and the picture on 4 x 3 playback is all squeezed in - I was more than surprised, played this on three other blu players and the same thing happens on all three. the sound, sadly, is definitely mono. Again, I ask why, again, no one answers.
 

Twilight Time

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Quick question, as someone who has never seen the film:

I read on another forum that there are no subtitles for spoken Hawaiian dialogue on the short non-roadshow version, but that there are subtitles for this content on the longer roadshow version. Is this report accurate? If so, is this an oversight of MGM and/or Twilight Time that may get corrected?

Thanks!
Hi Brandon -- it is an utterly insignificant issue. It is 2 short scenes where it is patently obvious what the characters are saying without the need for translation. The scenes were subbed on the original roadshow version, so you have them if you need them. MGM/UA's HD master of the shorter version doesn't have them for whatever reason. Nothing to correct.
 

Peter Apruzzese

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Bruce two things-
put the roadshow and the picture on 4 x 3 playback is all squeezed in - I was more than surprised, played this on three other blu players and the same thing happens on all three..

Then there's a setting on these systems that's doing something weird. The Roadshow is 4x3 letterbox. Unless you managed to get the only copy in the world that's enhanced for 16x9. :)
 

WadeM

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I'm just glad to finally own the roadshow version, which is certainly watchable. Of course I want high-def beauty, but if this all that MGM could offer, then I'll live with it and I'm thankful that someone allowed me the option to buy it. Someone in one of these these threads said that they turned it off after a few seconds, but the bulk of the movie looks better than the first few minutes, IMHO. It's not perfect, it's not great, but I at least have a watchable copy. Now, if we can just get roadshow version of Raintree County, I'll be set!
 

Dr Griffin

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I have begun to take another stance. While I still believe that MGM offering a, by now, ancient master of the roadshow for Blu-ray disc(!) release in 2016 is absolutely absurd, and IMHO shameful, the market obviously will no longer support anything else. I say this in reference to the costs of getting the roadshow version restored for 1080p and possibly beyond. So I plan on getting it next month, if still available, when I order that other MGM crapshoot: Exodus. Thanks to Twilight Time for making it available. I keep telling myself, remember how good Khartoum looked.
 
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OliverK

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I have begun to take another stance. While I still believe that MGM offering a, by now, ancient master of the roadshow for Blu-ray disc(!) release in 2016 is absolutely absurd, and IMHO shameful, the market obviously will no longer support anything else. I say this in reference to the costs of getting the roadshow version restored for 1080p and possibly beyond. So I plan on getting it next month, if still available, when I order that other MGM crapshoot: Exodus. Thanks to Twilight Time for making it available. I keep telling myself, remember how good Khartoum looked.

Khartoum was a low-cost transfer, too but from large format elements so it still looks better than Exodus which was taken from 35mm reduction elements. Overall Exodus is still watchable so don't worry about it too much, it is not as if MGM is going to go back to the OCN anytime soon so this is as good as it gets.
 

OliverK

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That's a good rule of thumb. People say that they won't appreciate the difference between 1080p and 4K, but what the higher resolution does, is enable you to watch a bigger display and/or move up closer for a more immersive experience. When I bought my 4K TV, the first thing I wanted to do was sit up closer.

As for the Hawaii roadshow, leaving it window-boxed, the screen width is about 42" on my TV (65" diagonal). I watch from approximately 84" away, so that puts me in the lower SD DVD range of 2:1 screen widths (or using the diagonal formula, a 1.6:1 ratio). That's why I couldn't zoom it from that viewing distance. That's as big as I could see it in that level of quality.

That sounds about right. Generally speaking ever since I got my first high quality 1080i content I felt that it was difficult to watch everything at the same size and distance and now things have gotten even more complicated with Blu-ray and 4k / UHD.
 

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