The Xbox Series X, Holiday 2020 (2 Viewers)

[Bryan^H]

This is a pretty amusing, and accurate response of Phil Spencer's statement regarding the Xbox brand. I agree with this guy greatly about the failed potential of the Xbox One (I've been using it as a streaming box mainly) coming off the wild success of the 360. The PS4 ruled, before that the 360 was the only console for me gaming. And now...I really don't care.

FOMO for the PS5 was the main draw, and after I realized I didn't need, or want most of their exclusives I was able to breathe easier. Will I jump on the PS5 Pro? I'm not even sure about that. Maybe if Bloodborne 2 happens.

 

[Edwin-S]

The last part of your post pretty well shows that Phil Spencer is correct. If you are not interested in owning a PS5 regardless of the exclusives, many of which are actually good, then why would someone who doesn't own the present gen of XBOX buy one just because the quality of games goes up?

It doesn't help that MS came up with an XBOX throat cutter in the form of game pass. Why would anyone bother with an XBOX Series S/X when they can get game pass and just use a PC that they already own?

 

[Edwin-S]

I also think part of the problem is the cost of games in general. They have never been cheap but at 40 dollars a game there was still a lot of headroom to buy games on both consoles if a person wasn't a console fanboy. At 70, 80 and 90 dollars for a game, the cost starts forcing a person to make a choice of one or the other.

Sony's PS5 got the jump on XBOX in that regard and haven't looked back, even though both consoles were insanely hard to get at their respective launches.

 

[Bryan^H]

I also think part of the problem is the cost of games in general. They have never been cheap but at 40 dollars a game there was still a lot of headroom to buy games on both consoles if a person wasn't a console fanboy. At 70, 80 and 90 dollars for a game, the cost starts forcing a person to make a choice of one or the other.

Sony's PS5 got the jump on XBOX in that regard and haven't looked back, even though both consoles were insanely hard to get at their respective launches.

Cost of games has never really been an issue for me. I was paying $120 + for many N64 games, and nearly $100 for the multitude of PS1 games I bought (adjusted for inflation obviously) and never thought twice about it. As long as I was satisfied with the game, all was good. Nowadays with so many Indy games at cheap prices, and deep price cuts for major games after launch it has better than it has ever been for value in gaming.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Cartridge games in the 90s had variable prices, with some being $50 and some being $80. The PlayStation/Saturn era saw a standard $50 price that went up to $60 for the PS3/360 and now $70 for current gen. If a game was $40, it was used or old. (Right now, games go down to $40 or even $30 within a year or so of release.)

The Xbox 360 was very successful SOLELY because it came out a whole year before the PS3. Even at a higher price, the PS3 ended up selling more units than the 360. The PS4/Xbox One launched at the same time and PS4 outsold significantly. Same so far with the PS5. The reality is that Microsoft's stable of exclusives is incredibly weak compared to Sony and the thing that gave the 360 an early surge of support (Call of Duty) is no longer exclusive to Xbox or even better on Xbox.

One thing killing the Xbox brand right now: the Series S. It's less powerful than the Xbox One X and is holding games back on the Series X (every game released on Series X must play well on Series S, per MS mandate). Third party devs don't want to bother so they skip Xbox entirely. And selling a cheaper piece of hardware means less revenue/profit for MS while trying to lock people into digital/streaming...which would be great if not for the fact that GamePass is going to die (since the $1 deal is gone) and most people are happy to buy 1 or 2 games a year only.

As for GamePass, it's an incredible deal...if you actually use it enough. The highest tier price would require you to play a full-price game every couple months, which is not unrealistic to do for many gamers. But chances are you already played the game (since a lot of games are pretty old) and Microsoft isn't releasing anything new at a fast enough pace to keep your backlog full. Sure, you could play games on PC with GamePass...if you have a good PC, which a lot of people don't. That's why you buy the console.

 

[LeoA]

The Xbox 360 was very successful SOLELY because it came out a whole year before the PS3. Even at a higher price, the PS3 ended up selling more units than the 360.

As I've explained to you before, it has never been known if the Playstation 3 outsold the Xbox 360.

The last official sales figure was 84 million Xbox 360 systems sold (June 9, 2014). Because of low sales of the Xbox One, MS ceased releasing sales data afterwards while new Xbox 360 hardware was still being sold (The Xbox 360 E, their counterpart to the Playstation 3's "Super Slim").

The final official PS3 figure was 87.4 million as of March 2017. Prior to that, the last official data was 80 million units (November 2013).

While the race was too close to call with any certainty due to incomplete data, Sony certainly did a great job of catching up after being a year late and lots of early troubles caused by things like the high price point and developer difficulties. The RROD debacle also undoubtedly helped whittle away at Microsoft's head start.

I bet they ended up less than a million units apart of each other when all was said and done. Hopefully one day we'll actually get to see just where the final 360 numbers ended up. Would also be intriguing to see retail game numbers.

I wouldn't be shocked to find that the PS3 indeed sold more systems in the end, but that the 360 sold slightly more games thanks to the earlier start as well as a solid range of budget backwards compatible 360 reissues after the launch of the Xbox One backwards compatibility initiative.

At a time when PS3 software sales were all but extinct at retail, numerous 360 games like Doom 3 BFG were resurfacing at retailers across the country with cross platform Xbox One/360 branding.

 

[Bryan^H]

The Xbox 360 was very successful SOLELY because it came out a whole year before the PS3.

That is a bizarre statement Morgan. The 360, even with its issues was just an amazing gaming system with features, and games to make it wildly successful.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

If the 360 was able to get a full year head start against the PS3 while also releasing at a lower cost, get sales boosts from Kinect (which was pretty big at the time, much bigger than PS Move), and have a long tail on software sales...to end up selling fewer units than the PS3 is pretty concerning for Microsoft. The PS4 outsold the Xbox One 2-to-1.

The 360 as a console was pretty great overall but the PS3 frankly blew it out of the water with the sole exception of the price. We could nitpick the RRoD, the equivalent PS3 flashing light, Sixaxis vs. actual rumble, multimedia capabilities, backward compatibility, etc. but in the end the PS3 was the better platform and sold better. Microsoft built the 360 on the 1-year head start and Call of Duty (which was exclusive to the 360 because the PS3 wasn't even out). If both platforms were released at the same time (like the PS4/One and PS5/Series S/X) then Microsoft would not have sold as many Xboxes.

The first Xbox console sold 30M units then MS cut it off and moved fully onto the 360. They used it to get a foot in the market and grow from there. The fact that the 360 was successful and then the One was a huge disappointment and the Series X hasn't taken off says a lot about consumer sentiment around the platform.

 

[Bryan^H]

The PS4 outsold the Xbox One 2-to-1.

The 360 as a console was pretty great overall but the PS3 frankly blew it out of the water with the sole exception of the price.

The fact that the 360 was successful and then the One was a huge disappointment and the Series X hasn't taken off says a lot about consumer sentiment around the platform.

I know how well the PS4 sold

PS3 quite frankly didn't blow anything out of the water. It was a decent system but lagged behind the 360 almost its entire life cycle.

The Series X has some great features and needs better first party games to define itself, and sell systems, hence the video from Phil expressing his disappointment. The Series X like the PS5 was selling out immediately, everywhere for almost two full years. That says a lot about the consumer sentiment of the platform.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The PS3 lagged the Xbox 360 in sales because the 360 came out first. In terms of capabilities, it was a CD/DVD/bluray player that played PS1 and PS2 games natively, connected to the PSP and PS Vita, played nearly every video/audio format in existence, and even let you install your own OS onto it.

The Series X was selling out, as was the Series S, but sales for the platform are basically dead. I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch is still selling more units than the Series X/S globally.

The Wii U sold incredibly well for the first couple months, too.

 

[Bryan^H]

The Series X was selling out, as was the Series S, but sales for the platform are basically dead. I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch is still selling more units than the Series X/S globally.

Right, like Phil Spencer already said they rushed Redfall, and dropped the ball bigtime with its release. If Redfall was a 9/10 game, Xbox series would have gained their much needed "win" for the system and gain back the sales #'s. But they didn't and they are suffering unfortunately.

 

[LeoA]

The PS3 lagged the Xbox 360 in sales because the 360 came out first. In terms of capabilities, it was a CD/DVD/bluray player that played PS1 and PS2 games natively, connected to the PSP and PS Vita, played nearly every video/audio format in existence, and even let you install your own OS onto it.

The Series X was selling out, as was the Series S, but sales for the platform are basically dead. I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch is still selling more units than the Series X/S globally.

The Wii U sold incredibly well for the first couple months, too.

I've seen it said that the 360 was outselling the PS3 2-to-1 in North America. Only rarely would the PS3 win when monthly sales statistics were released (By I think the Entertainment Software Association?). The global race was close because of Asia, Europe, etc. Microsoft's marketing never won over places like the UK, unlike here.

As for why the PS3 did as well as it did, none of your points played a significant reason for why they ended up so close to each other (I won't say which "won" by selling perhaps .5% more than the other did, since unlike you I'd have to see actual sales numbers to know).

People already had tons of ways to play CD's and DVD's. The physical media model was already in deep decline so many people weren't interested in Blu-Ray (and virtually nobody cared about the ability it had to play next-gen 'Super Audio CD's'). Backwards compatibility with PS1/PS2 was barely on the average PS3 owner's radar (and PS3 sales only started to explode after PS2 BC was killed off), as was the ability to play PS3 games with remote play from a PSP or Vita. And really, you're suggesting Open OS was a factor, lol?

What saved the PS3 besides solid 1st party software and healthy 3rd party support, was the huge success that was the PS2. Just like the Dreamcast encountered when going up against the upcoming PS2 after Sony's huge success with the PS1, a lot of people were so in love with their Playstation that only the latest and greatest Playstation would do for their next generation console.

The Wii U never sold out at launch. You could walk into almost any store hours, days, and weeks after the launch and buy one. The warning signs that it wasn't taking off like Nintendo hoped were obvious, as much as it saddens me to admit since I remain in love with the system and fire it up regularly (and just spent about $200 buying a final round of games and DLC for it before the eShop closed a few weeks back).

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Bryan - Redfall wasn't rushed though, it released late. The game had already been delayed. Spencer is trying to do damage control. The problem is that MS bought Arkane after Arkane was already put on a path to make a bad product, then MS let them release it. They could have delayed it more and maybe made it better but it wasn't exactly rushed.

Leo - I mentioned the extra features of the PS3 as a comparison against the Xbox 360. Was the 360 an exceptionally great piece of hardware or was it just a regular console? Similarly, someone else earlier said the Series X was better than the PS5 because it supports a couple extra video/audio formats, even if it's not as good of a gaming system. I wasn't suggesting that the PS3 sold millions of units because you can put Linux on it, I was saying it was a superior console overall and I don't think the 360 (as a piece of hardware) had anything unique over the PS3.

The best numbers we have for PS3 and 360 sales are 87M PS3s vs 84M 360s. Those are incomplete numbers but they're the best we have. The 360 had a 10M unit head start worldwide when the PS3 came out and the PS3 still ended up selling more units.

Again, if the 360 and PS3 had launched at the same time, the 360 would not have done nearly as well as it did. The original Xbox sold poorly, the Xbox One sold poorly, and the Series X/S is selling poorly.

 

[Bryan^H]

Some of the Sony fanboys are celebrating the video from Phil Spencer and making smug, and reprehensible comments regarding Xbox owners. It is disgusting, and the kind of thing that makes me ashamed of this hobby. I knew the minute he made the video, that this would happen. Of course The Series X is a great system with or without exclusives.
Sony has zero exclusives I want to play including their VR launch which is overpriced out of the gate.

 

[Bryan^H]

Bryan - Redfall wasn't rushed though, it released late. The game had already been delayed. Spencer is trying to do damage control. The problem is that MS bought Arkane after Arkane was already put on a path to make a bad product, then MS let them release it. They could have delayed it more and maybe made it better but it wasn't exactly rushed.

Leo - I mentioned the extra features of the PS3 as a comparison against the Xbox 360. Was the 360 an exceptionally great piece of hardware or was it just a regular console? Similarly, someone else earlier said the Series X was better than the PS5 because it supports a couple extra video/audio formats, even if it's not as good of a gaming system. I wasn't suggesting that the PS3 sold millions of units because you can put Linux on it, I was saying it was a superior console overall and I don't think the 360 (as a piece of hardware) had anything unique over the PS3.

The best numbers we have for PS3 and 360 sales are 87M PS3s vs 84M 360s. Those are incomplete numbers but they're the best we have. The 360 had a 10M unit head start worldwide when the PS3 came out and the PS3 still ended up selling more units.

Again, if the 360 and PS3 had launched at the same time, the 360 would not have done nearly as well as it did. The original Xbox sold poorly, the Xbox One sold poorly, and the Series X/S is selling poorly.

I love all gaming systems. I'm a gamer, not a system fanboy.
All the way back to the first system war between the NES/ Sega Master System (which was pretty one sided). I loved them both.
I game for fun. I have plenty of games on the Series X that I have to finish, and look forward to future games. I'll most likely get a PS5 when they release an exclusive I can't pass up (Bloodborne 2, Ghost of Tsushima 2).
It's all good man.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I am the same, I have a PS5, Switch, and Series X. I have PS+Premium, Switch Online+Expansion Pak, and GamePass Ultimate. I play God of War, Zelda, Halo, Ratcher & Clank, Mario, and Gears of War.

I'm not really knocking the history of Xbox consoles/games in terms of quality or value. I'm talking purely about sales history. That said, I did completely skip the Xbox One because only a couple things came out that I cared about (which I have since gotten to play on the Series X with GamePass). And right now the Xbox platform is extremely weak.

 

[Edwin-S]

I was kind of surprised when MS made the same mistake with the XBOX1 that SONY did with the PS3: focused on XBOX1 as a media centerpiece rather than a gaming system the same way SONY did with the PS3. It floored me that MS learned nothing from SONY's failed experiment in marketing the PS3 as an entertainment/media centerpiece.

For me, the PS3 was a bargain at 600 bucks, but I didn't buy it initially for games. For diehard gamers it was just an overpriced box due to all of the media features that they didn't give two shits about.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The PS3 was $600 because of the CELL architecture. Those other features were added/marketed to try and justify the price while also following from the PS2 selling well because it was a cheap DVD player. And in the end...the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 regardless of the price/features.

 

[Bryan^H]

I was kind of surprised when MS made the same mistake with the XBOX1 that SONY did with the PS3: focused on XBOX1 as a media centerpiece rather than a gaming system the same way SONY did with the PS3. It floored me that MS learned nothing from SONY's failed experiment in marketing the PS3 as an entertainment/media centerpiece.

For me, the PS3 was a bargain at 600 bucks, but I didn't buy it initially for games. For diehard gamers it was just an overpriced box due to all of the media features that they didn't give two shits about.

To be fair it was the best Blu-Ray player on the market for a while when that tech was brand spanking new. Even Sony's dedicated players were slow, and unreliable. I loved my PS3 for the BD player.

 

[Bryan^H]

But I also think the Xbox controller is lacking compared to PS5 and the better rumble/audio are significant benefits. That's why I was curious how you thought Series X was better.

Regarding the "rumble" feedback, that is one feature in gaming I never liked. I know I'm in the minority but if anything it just drains battery life, and mostly takes me out of the game. I find it annoying to begin with, and gimmicky. I always turn it off in games. So while the PS5 controller may be way better than Xbox in that regard, I'll never know, because it won't be used by me.