The Road to the SuperBowl: The NFL Playoffs (1 Viewer)

[RobertR]

As a Lions fan, I would love to have the opportunity to see my team get the crap beat out of it in just one Super Bowl.

You say that now, but I know from personal experience that you would feel differently if that actually happened. The awful feeling when your team loses a game is magnified MANY times when the loss is in the Super Bowl. You would feel as if they had accomplished nothing, and would hate them for embarassing themselves so badly in front of 800 million people.

 

[Micheal]

Who would have guessed that the big wrinkle in the game plan was no wrinkle whatsoever? The Bucs defense was shocked that the formations were all the same, the plays were all the same, everything was just exactly what they practiced against. They were shaking their heads on the sidelines wondering aloud about this (it was caught by the mics that some of them were rigged with).

I said the same thing earlier on in this thread. The Bucs were VERY surprised that they knew exactly what the Raiders were going to do. The Raiders did absolutely nothing to try and shake up the Bucs defense. Too bad really, I was looking forward to a close game.

 

[MikeM]

Rich, with all due respect, your comments are rediculous.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike, please see: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf...threadid=121372

Ok, so your comments weren't "rediculous", they were just "cheesy".

 

[William Ward]

And most of the pressure from TB came from the outside, which is what many were saying before the game....would the Raiders big line be able to hold up on the edges against Rice and Spires.....

Each of them had numerous pressures and some sacks...

And I don't remember the blitz doing much damage except for a screen pass that was delivered before it could be set up when Ronde Barber came in....Most of the pressure was applied by the front 4......

 

[Scott Merryfield]

You say that now, but I know from personal experience that you would feel differently if that actually happened. The awful feeling when your team loses a game is magnified MANY times when the loss is in the Super Bowl.

While I can appreciate those sentiments, Robert, it cannot be any worse than watching a team win exactly one postseason game in the past 45 years (and I've been watching for about 33 of those years). The only excitement Lions fan have enjoyed was watching Barry Sanders, and coach Bobby Ross drove him away into retirement.

 

[RobertR]

it cannot be any worse than watching a team win exactly one postseason game

That is a good point, Scott. If the Lions ever do reach the Super Bowl, I do guarantee you that you will feel a euphoria like you've never experienced with football. I'm just warning you that as good as it feels to get there, losing that game is the ultimate loss.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I was quite surprised at the ease of which TB dismantled the O. Gruden notwithstanding (thought he clearly made a huge difference), the offense looked awful. Was much of that due to TB's incredible D? Undoubtably. Did the Raiders actually think that the Bucs D was like any other they had faced? I am an idiot, but even I knew the Bucs were BUILT to destroy an O that thrives on the short pass turned into long gain. Even I knew the way to beat them was to tire out the smaller Bucs D-Line with a strong rush, FROM THE START. Wear them down first...then go to work. I assumed if I knew that...the coach MUST know that. Obviously not. The Raiders severely underestimated the Bucs D (or overestimated their own offense), and they paid for it on national TV.

The actual MVP (person, not player) was Monte Kiffin. The O is sexy...but the D wins the game.

As for Robbins...I don't know the facts, so I won't make any judgements. He wouldn't have made too great an impact on the field, but his presence might have helped. We'll never know, and it'll never matter.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Rich Malloy]

The Raiders severely underestimated the Bucs D (or overestimated their own offense), and they paid for it on national TV.

Anybody remember OU vs. FSU for the National Championship a few years ago? As a Seminole fan, I unfortunately do. Very much the same thing... I guess the coaches believed that FSU's vaunted offense could overcome OU's vaunted defense by simply doing the exact same thing they'd done against teams all year (except, of course, against the Gators - they always come up with something new and different for the Gators). At any rate, the great OU defense shut 'em down completely. Made them look stupid, in fact. Either the offensive coordinator suffered from too much hubris... or he was looking forward to moving to Georgia and taking over the Bulldogs the next season!

 

[nolesrule]

Rich, I tend to go with the Bulldogs theory. SO do most of my other FSU alumni friends.

But did you really have to bring up that bad memory in a week that I'm trying to celebrate a Super Bowl victory?

 

[Carlo_M]

I'm just warning you that as good as it feels to get there, losing that game is the ultimate loss.

Yeah but you can take a little solace in your team getting to the big game. The place I watched it, there was this one ass who every time the Bucs scored, would ask "what's wrong with your team?" (I was one of a few Raider fans, but all others were unattached, but rooting for the Bucs because of Raider dislike). Finally I asked him who his favorite team was, and he said the Cowboys, so I sarcastically asked if it felt good to be doing exactly what his team was doing: watching the Superbowl. I followed that up with a sarcastic "How 'bout them Cowboys?" and that shut him up pretty damned quick (and got quite a few laughs from the rest of the people in the living room).

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Our beloved 'Boys figured that 30% of the NFL Championships in the last decade was enough...we'd let you scrubs have the rest
Take care,
Chuck
EDIT: Whoops on the timeframe

 

[RobertR]

I sarcastically asked if it felt good to be doing exactly what his team was doing: watching the Superbowl.

It was a good comeback to the jerk, but it's more painful when your team has never won the Super Bowl (past glory does count for something). Remember how Denver used to be one of the number one targets for Super Bowl spoofing (I remember the Simpsons targeting them)? It all went away the day they beat the Packers. Same thing with Tampa. Now they aren't the pathetic 0-26 team. They're the champs. But if they had lost, they'd still have the loser tag. Honestly, does anyone feel better about the current state of the lowly Bengals for having made it to two Super Bowls in the past? I don't think so.

 

[John Thomas]

The "rooting against" another team I can't quite understand really. For example, in my area the Titans are the home team. When I asked who someone was pulling for they'd say "Da Bucs". Why? "Cuz dem dang ol' Raiders beat my Tituns". This kind of logic has always puzzled me; why wouldn't you want the team that beat yours to win? It seems like it'd be more easy to stomach a loss to the SB champs. So, all the Titans and Jets fans out there, your team would have actually done much, much worse in the bowl..
Another thing I can't quite fathom is all the "Raider haters" onboard. The only other team I've seen so much hatred for is the NY Yankees. Some state the reason they don't like the Raiders is because of Al Davis. C'mon guys, you're actually considering the owner as a basis for dislike? That is REACHING. Hell, if that were the case (and you did your homework) you wouldnt like ANY team in professional sports. Yeah, Al is outspoken and anti-establishment (well, anti-NFL-homogenization anyways)..why WOULDN'T you like this? He's the underdog, man. He's fightin' 'The Man'.

 

[RobertR]

Some state the reason they don't like the Raiders is because of Al Davis.

Lots of people have a very good reason for hating Al Davis, namely, every football fan living in a city whose franchise abandoned them in the past 20 years or so (Baltimore, Cleveland, Houston, and Los Angeles (twice in the case of LA). Prior to Davis suing Pete Rozelle for the right to take the Raiders where he damn well pleased without League permission, fans in NFL cities could pretty much count on owner commitment to keeping their teams in place. Not anymore. After Davis' actions, owners have been playing a merry game of demanding financial help from cities under threat (carried out several times) of moving. People in those cities can thank Davis for that.

What's funny to me is that Davis reamed the Oakland fans by moving to LA, reamed the LA fans by moving back to Oakland, and the Oakland fans act as if he never did anything wrong! Meanwhile, Davis claims he STILL owns the NFL rights to LA, and could move back ("do it to me again, Al, please!").

Then there's Davis' shoddy treatment of Hall of Fame running back Marcus Allen.

Real class guy, that Al Davis.

 

[John Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lay that on him and him alone. I'm not defending him, I'm stating that most owners would have done the same placed in the smae position. Plus, why not challenge the NFL in a case like that? You want a team to stay stagnated in an area that doesn't support its team? There's a reason LA doesn't have a football team and it's not because of it's size - no support (even though there is talk about moving the Cardinals there...).

In each of the cases you've stated, each team got a team back (except for LA) - and the fact of the matter is that Davis or no Davis, this would have occurred regardless. Look at Houston (this is my personal fav) - loses the Oilers in '96 or '97? Gets an exapnsion team in 2002. What gives? In 5 years there was a resurgence in football fans in Houston? Hrm.

The man is not a saint (as few of these owners are) but hating a team because of the owner...again, I say that if you held all owners up to that litmus test, you wouldn't like sports at all.

I guess it all stems to my personal dislike for everyone jumping on one person. Blaming Davis for what invariably would come to pass makes people feel better about liking a game where the back-door politics can make it appear not-so-appealing. Yeah, he's the scapegoat and concerning the Marcus Allen issue, there's always three sides to a story and most of what I've heard comes from Allen. I've heard varying stories about Allen's demands from coaches and management; I'm thinking that he talked his way out of the Raiders camp.

He was insturmental in signing free-agents Rich Gannon, Charlie Garner, Jerry Rice, Rod Woodson, Bill Romanowski, John Parrella and Sam Adams. Plus he hired the first black coach and is not one to throw away players after they get "old and used up".

I sure am glad that I'm not blinded by hatred for any particular team...guess I just enjoy the game for what it is.

 

[RobertR]

why not challenge the NFL in a case like that? You want a team to stay stagnated in an area that doesn't support its team?

WHAT "lack of support"? Quite the contrary, Oakland fans were VERY loyal to the Raiders, and he abandoned them for the sole reason that LA has a larger television market. Not only that, he reserves the right to do it to them AGAIN!
You expressed bafflement why people despise the man. Whether you agree with it or not, I've shown you that people have plenty of justification for doing so.

 

[Patrick_S]

Robert, on the flip side people in Indy, Baltimore, and Ten should be thankful then since they currently have teams because Davis rightfully challenged the NFL's rules in his anti-trust cases. Which by the way were illegal, but that shouldn't get in anyone’s way now should it?

It's interesting that those who hate Davis know so little about him. If one evaluates his history then one would see Davis as much as anyone is responsible for the NFL, as we know it today since he was one of the driving forces behind the NFL/AFL merger.

Concerning his move of the Raiders to LA, here is a short run down of what transpired.

The Raiders had negotiated a new lease with the Oakland coliseum that granted the Raiders revenues that are typical by today's standards, i.e. a share of the parking and concession stand revenue and so on and of course their were some stadium improvements also. The A’s already enjoyed some of the items that Davis negotiated for so it wasn't as if he was asking for the moon. It's no secret that Davis used the threat of moving as leverage against the city in his negotiations and what business person doesn't do everything they can in order to secure their business the best deal possible?

Then right before the contract was going to be signed Pete Rozelle got involved and told the Oakland Coliseum board that they were giving the Raiders too much and there was no way Davis could move the team anyway. The Board then withdrew the contract and demanded that the Raiders renegotiate. Bolstered by the support that Rozelle had given them they sudden refused to give the Raiders many of the items they were already giving to the A’s, Davis felt betrayed by the city fathers and decided that the Raiders would leave once the lease was up.

Of course history has shown that Rozelle was wrong. The real question is why did he get involved in the first place? It was none of his business. Some speculate that it was because of Davis’s involvement in the NFL/AFL merger and the fact the Davis wanted the commissionership when the new league was formed.

Of course we'll never know what truly was motivating Rozelle because he never fully explained his actions before he died.

Yes Davis can be ruthless, (most successful businessmen are) and he has made mistakes over the years but in the end he was correct in his challenge of the leagues anti-trust rules.

 

[RobertR]

Patrick:

The question wasn't whether Al Davis had a legal right to do what he's done. John expressed bewilderment why anyone would despise an owner. I showed why. Just because you win a court case does NOT mean that people aren't going to despise you. Ask people in Cleveland about Art Modell. Ask people in general about O.J. Simpson.

 

[Kirk Gunn]

Off Topic Inquiry:

What is Al Davis' day job ?

 

[RobertR]

What is Al Davis' day job ?

"Managing general partner" of the Raiders. In other words, he runs the show for the team.