Superbit: Worth it? (merged thread) (1 Viewer)

[JohnRice]

Nothing good can come from that, so I'm retracting it.

 

[MarkHastings]

I think "scam" may not be the best word to describe it, but I can agree with what John's trying to say.

It's all about perception. Columbia is trying to make it sound like their Superbits are better than any other studios DVD's. This may be true for some DVD's, but not for all.

I refer you to this page:
http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/sup.../howwork2.html

There are two things I disagree with (and feel they are making misleading examples)

1.) The fact that they make it sound like every non-superbit DVD is encoded at less than 5mbps. That's just not true.

2.) Their pie charts are VERY misleading. According to the Superbit pie chart, they are using EVERY LAST BIT of the DVD to put the movie on (i.e. 100% of the pie chart equalling the entire capacity of the DVD). We've already discussed why this is virtually impossible, so their pie chart is VERY misleading.

What the pie charts DON'T show (which is why they are misleading) is the extra space left over from the VBR's. This "Extra" space is where the "Extras" go. Sure, some DVD's sacrifice movie space to add extras, but not all do.

So to explain, where their pie charts show that their superbits use 100% of the space as opposed to other DVD's that use (according to the pie chart) 66%, what they should do is explain that even at the highest bit rate, a movie may only take up about 75% of the disc space.

Meaning, that there is still 25% of the space left over for "Extras", but they aren't using that space because they want to 'trick' you into thinking you're getting the entire disc filled with movie bits. True you are getting the highest quality bit rate, but you aren't getting what they make it sound like you are getting.

 

[JohnRice]

That's exactly it, Mark. Except in my book, when someone tries to convince you to spend more money based largely on lies, that is a scam.

I've been looking at how much is allocated to the actual movie on DVDs lately, and there is only one company (other than someone like Madacy) who would regularly have the guts to put a 2 hour movie with 2 5.1 and 1 2 channel soundtrack in as little as 3.7 GB of space, and that is Columbia.

 

[Chris Will]

The only reason I like superbit is b/c it adds DTS to some movies that did not have it on previous releases.

 

[Mitch Stevens]

Right. I know everything you've just said, because I make my own DVDs all the time, using captures from my digital camera.

My question is, how come Columbia is setting the AVERAGE bitrate so low? We know that on MOST Superbit titles, there are about 3 GBs of room left, so how come they don't use a higher average bitrate? I'm guessing they are using an average bitrate of 5mbps, when they SHOULD be using an average of 7. That way, there wouldn't be so much space left on the DVD, and we would get even better looking Superbits.

Another thing to consider, especially for short movies that are on Superbits, is to use CBR (Constant Bitrate). We know that Columbia always uses two layers for all of their Superbits, and for short movies, they should use the highest Constant Bitrate possible. I'm sure they could easily fit a 100 min. movie on two layers using a CBR of about 8.1 mbps.

 

[MarkHastings]

I may be wrong, but I know I've heard (with other compression schemes) that higher bitrates don't always mean better quality. I've even heard that higher bitrates (depending on the codec) can make something look worse because of the way the algorithms work.

Again, this isn't based on any facts, but just stuff I've heard over the years of dealing with compression.

Also, I know data rates mean a lot with computer DVD drives, but I'm not sure what the pitfalls are with set top players. Maybe higher data rates cause certain players software to "hang" or lock up?

Just a guess...

 

[Bjoern Roy]

Most of the "shenanigans" complaints in this and basically all other Superbit-is-scam threads center around bitrate.

- The bitrate on titles from other studios is just as high!
- They dont even use the max bitrate!
- There is space left on the disc!

All of that would indeed make a case against Superbit titles, if the concept was indeed primarily about bitrate.

But Superbit titles aren't really about high bitrate!

Once you understand that, you start to realize that all of the complains above get irrelevant.

The name 'Superbit' might have been chosen a bit misleading and the marketing folks didn't find another way to explain the extra benefit of Superbit titles to Joe-HT-Sixpack better.

Regards
Bjoern

 

[Dave H]

Good to see you around, Bjoern. Any new DVD comparisons you plan on doing on your site? I would be curious to see a Panic Room SB vs SE comparison.

 

[JohnRice]

Think that through again, Bjoern. A lot of people here have been complaining about bitrate, but not me and not several others. My problem is that Columbia claims they allot all the space to the video and audio of the feature, so there is absolutely not any room for extras, or even more than the most basic menus. That is extensively proven to be a bald faced lie. So, they release "standard" versions with extras, but remove those on the SuperBits because of their false claims. It is quite clear part of their intention is to con people into buying multiple editions in order to get all the features.

The fact that there is space left on the disc is absolutely relevent.

Like I said. Many people have not had a problem with the bitrate. That doesn't negate everyone's problem with the marketing scheme. I also noticed your subtle wording intended to imply anyone who disagrees with you is a "Joe-HT-Sixpack". Not too cool.

 

[Robert Franklin]

But Columbia is not the only studio that does this. Many studios come out with what they call a "Special Edition", then some years go by and they call it a "Directors Cut" or something else. The bottom line in my opinion is that Columbia uses a term that is unique. Now, I would agree that there are some differences with some titles with many studios. But everyone doesn't have the same correctly calibrated display, and everyone doesn't have the same eyes. Two people can see the same thing, and find differences with the same image. According to the tests that Bjoern has made, and what I've seen on my projector, there is definately a difference with Superbit titles, but the problem is that everyone can't see them. Superbit dvds were meant for those with a high-end display and for those consumers who don't care about the supplemental fluff.

I for one, don't care about the supplements other than a trailer for the movie. Any two-disc or special edition dvd with behind the scenes, I may look at it once, but that is it. I care more about the picture and sound more than the other things that are associated with the film. So, given a choice I would pick a movie with DD and DTS over supplements blind-folded. I have on occasion listened to commentaries, but I assure you that after I listened to it, that was it. So, for me, Superbit titles are what I want until some form of High- Def playback standard is formalized.

 

[Chris*W]

Has anyone here seen the transfer of the Superbit edition of From Here to Eternity? I'd like to know how it compares with the original DVD.

 

[Ernest Rister]

DVDFile reported that Hook: Superbit had a lower bitrate than the standard edtion release. The only upside, they said, was the dts audio.

Can anyone confirm?

 

[Andy_Hamric]

I own one Suberbit DVD: Das Boot. I had already seen the extra making-of featurette on the rented version, and I despise having to flip that one over. Here comes superbit where I now have two discs and I can put them both in my changer.

Flippers are the bane of my DVD existence. Come on, spend the extra $0.50 in manufacturing costs and give us two discs instead of one!

 

[JohnRice]

Andy, most flippers are just very early DVDs. Dual layer DVDs didn't really show up for a while and didn't become the standard for probably a couple years.

 

[Herschel]

That's the reason for the maximum total bitrate in the DVD spec, so that all DVD players can keep up with that data rate.

I've noticed this issue as well, of many DVDs using a far lower bitrate than they could given the amount of free space on the disc. I've never heard of any issues with any discs using the optimum bitrate, so I don't know why it happens. I've always assumed sloppiness, but who knows. I think the worst offender I've noticed was Pee Wee's Big Adventure, which was a dual layer disc with a whopping 5.07 GB of content...

 

[Sean Patrick]

i have about 10 superbit titles, but there are 3 in particular i've been holding off on since i like the special edition content of the non-superbit releases : Heavy Metal, LEON, and Starship Troopers.

are the superbit transfers of these three films worth double dipping on (or TRIPLE dipping for LEON and TROOPERS)????

thanks
sean

 

[Andy_Hamric]

Starship Troopers????? That has to be the worst book-to-movie transfer ever. Totally butchered a good yarn by Heinlein.

Of course I never read the Lawnmower Man short story by King but I heard it really had virtually nothing to do with the story Stephen King actually published.

 

[Andy_Hamric]

Starship Troopers????? That has to be the worst book-to-movie transfer ever. Totally butchered a good yarn by Heinlein.

Of course I never read the Lawnmower Man short story by King but I heard it really had virtually nothing to do with the story Stephen King actually published.

 

[JohnRice]

You are correct, it is not an even remotely faithful adaptation, but it is still a kick in the pants on its own. It's a great book and it's a great movie, so what if the only thing they have in common is a vague story concept and a few names. I mean, Diz was a man in the book and was in it for about 2 pages. That in itself is pretty amusing.

 

[JohnRice]

You are correct, it is not an even remotely faithful adaptation, but it is still a kick in the pants on its own. It's a great book and it's a great movie, so what if the only thing they have in common is a vague story concept and a few names. I mean, Diz was a man in the book and was in it for about 2 pages. That in itself is pretty amusing.