Star Wars Episode VIII "The Last Jedi" Coming December 15, 2017 (1 Viewer)

[JimmyO]

If any of that is important to any viewer, they can read the inevitable novel that will tell that story. Kylo Ren is the much more interesting character so TLJ made the right choice in getting rid of Snoke because it lets there be one villain for Rey to face off against in Episode IX.

Careful about that. You're setting the same kind of expectations for yourself as a lot of people did about Last Jedi.

Maybe J.J. will kill off Ren in some unfortunate shuttle accident or something.

Surprise!

 

[Tommy R]

I think it's very possible they could still explore Snoke's backstory in the next one. They killed Jigsaw in Saw III and he went on to appear in the following 5 sequels.

 

[Tino]

Regardless of what Rian came up with to follow TFA, J.J.'s "mysteries" were clearly not conceived with any answers in mind

Clearly? How do you know that?

 

[Tino]

Yes - thank you! Your entire post articulates clearly the point and distinction I was trying to make in my discussion with Tino yesterday.

Gotcha.

 

[Bryan^H]

With respect, that's not what "retcon" means.

Right. Going in a direction different than what the audience expects is not "retcon". I still feel the contrast of TFA, and TLJ are very close to ANH, and TESB.

 

[Tommy R]

Clearly? How do you know that?

I don't know first hand, but considering that they gave Rian free reign with writing the sequel, it just seems like that was their way of saying "Yeah, go ahead and figure out how to continue with this, because we haven't thought up jack shit." Just my interpretation of the situation, I could very well be wrong but I haven't heard anything eluding that J.J. and co. had a pre-set 3-film story arc.

 

[Tino]

but I haven't heard anything eluding that J.J. and co. had a pre-set 3-film story arc.

But that doesn’t mean they didn’t/don’t. Sorry I’m a big JJ fan and loved what he did with TFA.

 

[JimmyO]

I don't know first hand, but considering that they gave Rian free reign with writing the sequel, it just seems like that was their way of saying "Yeah, go ahead and figure out how to continue with this, because we haven't thought up jack shit." Just my interpretation of the situation, I could very well be wrong but I haven't heard anything eluding that J.J. and co. had a pre-set 3-film story arc.

Sometimes in life, people just don't communicate things even though we think they do or should. This happens all the time in my life. I have some past regrets about the way things have unfolded for me based on my unwillingness to communicate my thoughts or express myself the way I could have or should have or failure to stand my ground.

I say this because, it's entirely possible that J.J. had some *great* ideas about how these threads should continue on. He may very well have hinted at these things specifically or broadly - we just don't know. Maybe Rian heard his ideas and then was like "nah, I'm gonna do the exactly opposite and surprise everyone!", thinking that this was bold and clever and groundbreaking.

J.J. might have very well seen this all unfolding and threw his hands in the air and walked away from trying to fight for anything. We don't know, we might never know.

One thing my intuition tells me is that J.J. coming up with all of his ideas which were only open ended questions TFA would absolutely not have been questions without answers in HIS mind. Once someone comes up with an interesting idea, the pathway(s) created by that idea form themselves very quickly.

I think our minds are very much cause and effect machines. You think up an idea or event of some kind, and you can't stop yourself about thinking where that could lead.

 

[Greg.K]

- Wow, that's Luke's light saber. And it's talking to Rey! What's that all about? Are they related? Did Luke leave Rey on Jakku?

Luke's lightsaber talking to Rey? Well that's dumb! Why would Luke leave Rey on Jakku? And people think RIAN ruined his character? That would be so much worse than anything Rian did!

- Rey is going to see Luke! Will he train her? That is going to be awesome to see.

Of course he's going to train her and it will be exactly like Luke and Yoda in TESB and.. ZZZzzzzzzz. Seen that.

- This Snoke guy seems pretty important! What's his backstory? How and why is he involved?

This cookie cutter villain is not all that interesting.

 

[JimmyO]

Luke's lightsaber talking to Rey? Well that's dumb! Why would Luke leave Rey on Jakku? And people think RIAN ruined his character? That would be so much worse than anything Rian did!



Of course he's going to train her and it will be exactly like Luke and Yoda in TESB and.. ZZZzzzzzzz. Seen that.



This cookie cutter villain is not all that interesting.

Was any of this a serious attempt to counter my points, or are you taking on the tongue in cheek character of the guy that says "so what?" to any point made?

We didn't know at the end of TFA is Luke was Rey's father or not. Leaving her on Jakku could have been an absolutely viable option if he felt that was a way of protecting her. If you think that would have ruined Lukes character, then I guess you feel the same way about Ben Kenobi leaving Luke on Tattooine.

Luke's lightsaber talking to Rey is *dumb*? Ok, so I guess the whole concept of the force is absurd to you as well. In fact, you could point to almost anything in Star Wars like the force and call it dumb.

But it happened in the film, and at the time it felt like some sort of force connection with Rey, and it was one of the more interesting sequences in the film and it sure felt like it had a big payoff coming. But that was tossed like a lightsaber over the shoulder.

Luke training Rey - well, NO - you haven't seen it before, have you? Luke has always been an apprentice, a student. We never got to see him become the jedi master. It would have been grand. So much missed an opportunity.

As for turning Snoke into a cookie cutter villain - yeah, Rian made sure of that.

 

[Tommy R]

I felt that Luke DID train Rey in TLJ. I never understood people's claims that he didn't.

 

[Edwin-S]

I thought STAR WARS stories couldn't be written any worse than George Lucas did in the prequels. Then JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson were hired and proved me wrong.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Then JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson were hired and proved me wrong.

If you hated The Force Awakens as much as your statement seems to indicate, then why even see The Last Jedi? (I'm not trying to attack you here; this is a genuine question.) Because obviously you saw it in order to be able to make that statement in its entirety, despite hating the previous film?

 

[TravisR]

If you hated The Force Awakens as much as your statement seems to indicate, then why even see The Last Jedi? (I'm not trying to attack you here; this is a genuine question.) Because obviously you saw it in order to be able to make that statement in its entirety, despite hating the previous film?

To be fair, I've seen people that hated one and liked the other. Maybe a better question is why would people continue to even bother with new Star Wars movies when they haven't really liked one in 35 or more years?

 

[Greg.K]

Was any of this a serious attempt to counter my points, or are you taking on the tongue in cheek character of the guy that says "so what?" to any point made?

We didn't know at the end of TFA is Luke was Rey's father or not. Leaving her on Jakku could have been an absolutely viable option if he felt that was a way of protecting her. If you think that would have ruined Lukes character, then I guess you feel the same way about Ben Kenobi leaving Luke on Tattooine.

Kenobi was there on Tatooine with him, and Luke was in a mostly safe environment with an aunt and uncle to raise him. Rey had nobody, and was never safe on Jakku. That's not protecting, that's abandoning.

But c'mon, a lot the "hiding Luke on Tatooine" thing doesn't really make sense either, because Lucas retconned that entire story later when he decided to make Vader his father, and even more in the prequels. Raised by the same family that took in Vader's mother, and kept his last name? Some hiding that was.

Luke's lightsaber talking to Rey is *dumb*? Ok, so I guess the whole concept of the force is absurd to you as well. In fact, you could point to almost anything in Star Wars like the force and call it dumb.

But it happened in the film, and at the time it felt like some sort of force connection with Rey, and it was one of the more interesting sequences in the film and it sure felt like it had a big payoff coming. But that was tossed like a lightsaber over the shoulder.

The Force works through living things. A lightsaber isn't living. It was kind of neat sequence in the movie, but it didn't really fit the established mythology very well. Luke didn't have anything close to that kind of reaction when Ben first gave him his father's saber.

Luke training Rey - well, NO - you haven't seen it before, have you? Luke has always been an apprentice, a student. We never got to see him become the jedi master. It would have been grand. So much missed an opportunity.

I'll partly agree on the Luke point. I did like Luke's character arc in TLJ but it would have been nice to see him in his Jedi Master prime at some point too.

 

[Edwin-S]

If you hated The Force Awakens as much as your statement seems to indicate, then why even see The Last Jedi? (I'm not trying to attack you here; this is a genuine question.) Because obviously you saw it in order to be able to make that statement in its entirety, despite hating the previous film?

I didn't really hate TFA. The film just left me feeling "meh" with it's uncreative retreading of the original Star Wars and its lazy writing. I mean, STAR WARS has never been a bastion of scientific accuracy but even Lucas didn't resort to something as stupid as people in different parts of the galaxy being able to watch 5 planets being destroyed in real time. That whole scene just irritated me in its breadth of laziness. JJ Abrams is supposed to be some sort of creative genius amongst people who like his films and that was the best he could come up with? It was terrible. However, at least I didn't leave the theatre hating the film. Even now, thinking about TFA just leaves me feeling meh about the film and leaves me with no need to ever revisit the film.

Rian Johnson, on the other hand, was a whole different story. He did have some creativity but all of it was in the service of the worst ideas and characterizations possible. His film really did leave me hating it in the end, even though it did have a spectacular scene of destruction in it. I could probably watch TFA if there was nothing else on, but watching paint dry would be preferable to ever watching TLJ again.

I'm probably just a masochist when it comes to STAR WARS films. I keep going to them hoping that somehow they will recapture the magic of the first one; however, STAR WARS movies prove the adage that you can't go home again. Of course, it turned out that I ended up liking "Solo" and everyone else hated it or felt the same way about it as I do about TFA.

 

[Tino]

, it turned out that I ended up liking "Solo" and everyone else hated it or felt the same way about it as I do about TFA.

I think most that saw Solo actually liked it. Just not enough wanted to see it.

 

[TravisR]

I think most that saw Solo actually liked it. Just not enough wanted to see it.

From what I've seen, Solo has engendered the least complaints of any SW movie since the original trilogy. Not to say that it's a beloved movie but unlike the prequels or sequels, it didn't have people tearing their hair out and ranting for years about how they hate it either.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Solo is the most "meh" Star Wars movie yet released, and thus generates far less discussion than the really polarizing entries like The Last Jedi. Nothing really spectacular about it, and nothing really horrendous about it.

 

[dpippel]

Solo is the most "meh" Star Wars movie yet released, and thus generates far less discussion than the really polarizing entries like The Last Jedi. Nothing really spectacular about it, and nothing really horrendous about it.

This. I'd pretty much forgotten Solo the day after I saw it. It's the Star Wars movie equivalent of cold oatmeal.