See, cables do matter!!! (Yeah right) (1 Viewer)

[Nathan Stohler]

Mike, you've made a key point in your last post. Knowing the price and brand of a cable and even seeing the cable affects our expectations.

For you "believers", I challenge you to conduct a simple blind test between your magic cable (A) and a generic cable of similar shielding and gauge (B). Have a friend connect the two cables (you don't know which is A and which is B). Switch back and forth between the two as many times as you like. When you've heard both cables to your liking, your friend will flip a coin. If the coin turns up heads, he'll play cable A. Otherwise, he'll play cable B (without you knowing which is being played). Now, see if you can correctly pick which cable is being used.

If you can pick it correctly, great. If you can pick it 16 times out of 20, I would be astounded.

 

[Travis Cain]

Mike Skeway -- Well said.. That is exactly the same kind of unbiased "blind test" that one of McIntosh's engineers did (I wish I could remember his name..) during conventions & such.. Funny how no one could hear those higher highs and deeper lows when they didn't know which cables they were listening to..

 

[Levesque]

Clik on the link to my equipment. I think I have a fairly transparent system.

And all my cables and interconnects are under 30-50$ each. Do I believe that buying better cables would yield any improvement in my system? No. Did I try it? Yes. My dealer did provide me some mega-$$$ Kimber cables (selling over 3K a pair), I did try it, but didn't heard anything differently, and it was not sounding better... it was still the same incredible sound... Can you say my system is not good enough to reveal those "differences" some poeple are hearing? Don't think so. I'm keeping my "cheap" interconnects and I don't loose any sleep on this subject...

That's why I invest on the electronics, not the interconnects.

My costly MT800 will be connect to my costly Denon DVD-5900 with a 20$ DVI cable. Do you really think that a 500$ optical DVI cable would change the way my digital picture will look like?

 

[DanielKellmii]

Ask Maxwell. He had some really good insights that had to do with electricity and magnetism.

 

[Brad_Harper]

I know the reason I get passionate about the topic of cables is that I don't like to see people gettting scammed out of their hard earned dollars. I am an electrical engineer and I have designed many an audio amplifier, so I feel I have enough expertise to know when the science does not support the claims companies or magazines make.

We may not know every aspect of how the universe works but as far as electricity and sound waves go there are a lot of good equations to describe exactly what is happening. Music is not some mystical force at work. It is a collection of waves. All of which can be explained using math. You don't need a PHD in quantam mechanics to know how electricity works. It actually isn't that complicated.

There are some posts here that just say "Try it out" or "Let your ears decide." That is all well and good but because of the way our lovely brain works if you are expecting to hear a difference chances are you probably will. When in reality there was no difference.

I challenge anyone who's serious about audio or electronics in general to pick up a book a learn about how the stuff actually works. Don't be a sheep. Break free of the bonds of corporate propoganda. Make some well educated choices instead of just believing what magazine X has to say.

 

[Cagri]

I really think that some people on this thread really think that music (any sound) is something special in the world and operates outside the world of physics.



I have the same observation.
If someone can't prove with DBTs that one cable sounds better/worse than the other, it's just a matter of bias. It's all psyhcological. It's like the difference between having a cheap wristwatch or a Rolex. Both will show the time, but some people feel better to have that expensive Rolex while others won't care... That's fine, but when the guy with the rolex comes and tells me when both watches; his Rolex and my $10 Casio; show exactly 12:02, that his 12:02 is better than mine, that's a bit absurd. Claim that you are better satisfied with more expensive cable, that is fine. But while not being able to prove it in any stance, please do not claim that your $$$ cable sounds better than mine...

 

[Chu Gai]

All dealers say that, specially when the margins are good.

 

[BrianAe]

Well, a Rolex may not keep better time than a Casio but it does look better. While I think its vane to care that much about what's on your wrist, I understand the appeal. Similarly, if someone wants to spend more for speakers for their living room that look like sculpted works of art, thats fine too. Unfortunately, there is no aesthetic appeal to cable.

 

[DanielKellmii]

OH THE HORROR, Don't do it!

I did that and changed my major to Mechanical. I can hold a gear or engine. I will never understand what a Norton or Thevinin equivalent is. And Op-Amps might as well be run by Tinker Bells magic dust.

 

[Chester II]

Dudes,

Thanks Daniel....

And to Chu Gai....you are my new purveyor of sacred truth....

Dudes,

Chester

 

[Chu Gai]

Agreed, then let's call it what it is...audio jewelry and be done with it.

 

[BrianAe]

Its fine that this discussion is turning into the standard cable debate, which is always good (seriously). However, my initial post was in regard to the article which takes a rather extreme position on the subject. Specifically, I'm interested in opinions on:

For everybody:

1) Assuming there's nothing wrong with the cable, can you hear a difference between digital interconnects.

For those that feel that cables do make some difference, even a small one (others obviously will say no to all of the below):
2) Do cables color the sound (ie warm vs bright)

3) Do cables interact in certain ways with different equipment? Should you "match" your cables to your electronics?

4) Is the difference between cables profound? Can an expensive cable that you feel is somewhat inferior actually make music sound harsh?

 

[Rajeev_s]

So does it make a difference if I buy a $10 mirror and a $500 one. I still see me, dont I.

 

[Chester II]

Dudes,

Round two begins.....NOW

Dudes,

Chester

 

[Scott_N]

I don't need a DBT test to test cables because in my original system of an Aragon 8008ST, Aragon 28k preamp, Sony SCD333ES SACDP and Paradigm Studio 100's I was having problems with ear fatigue and took home cables and interconnects from Harmonic Technology, Analysis Plus and Tara Labs to compare to my IXOS speaker cable and Monster interconnects. The more expensive cable got rid of the ear fatigue and brought out the bass that I didn't know I was missing. The differences between the IXOS/Monster combo with the others wasn't small and it wasn't in my head or any other excuse people who don't believe in cables use. I don't push my beliefs on others and I don't see others like me making fun of the naysayers like the anti-cable faction does to people who trust their ears on this board. I like tubes and I like vinyl and I think tweaks like cables work and no matter how many charts you show me I will go with my ears because in the end that is the only instrument that I use to enjoy this hobby. Frankly i've heard alot of systems cheap and expensive that sound like crap but others think sound good so I guess in matters of taste there can be no dispute.

 

[Brad_Harper]

1) Digital interconnects will not affect sound in any way. No difference in sound quality.

2)Wire will never add any information to the sound. No colouring!

3)Your amp or CD player doesn't care what wire is matched to it. Will not affect the sound.

4)Wire will never add any information to the sound.

 

[John Garcia]

So Brad, what kind of interconnects are you using? Since it doesn't matter at all, I am guessing you are using the LEAST expensive cables you could possibly find, correct? If that is not the case, then I'd be curious as to why not. You are suggesting that a $10 cable will have the same results as a $10K cable, so if you aren't using the $10 cables...

 

[Philip Hamm]

I wonder how many cable believers have ever visited a professional recording studio. I got news for you, there are no high end cables anywhere to be seen, just miles and miles of basic Belden shielded balanced cables with standard connectors. Except a few "audiophile" studios.

Just for grins to see if component cables matter one day I A/Bed my system with the best AudioQuest cables I own (admittadly, not high end - about a $40 pair) and a set of pack-ins, the flimsiest pack-in cables I could find. I couldn't tell the difference. Well, there was a tiny difference, small enough that I concluded that it was probably in my head. It's easy to do if you save old pack-ins.

 

[Shane Martin]

That's part of my distaste for some of the naysayers. I've met a few who stay out of these discussions unless they need to. Most of the time and its pretty easy to tell if you peruse the cable forums at all, there are a few others who will attempt to push their beliefs on you like its the word and that's it. If I'm asking for that opinion then I don't mind but usually the person posting isn't asking for it so its like jumping into a conversation and jamming your opinion down their throat. While your opinion might be "right" or justified, its the tact or lack thereof that is used to say it.

Brian to answer you questions:
1. Yes. Cables used: Tara Labs Optical and Radio Shack Optical which was returned twice(because I actually believed based on a few posts that it might be defective). The difference in price was a whopping $20.

2. Yes they do and I don't mean poorly designed ones either. Who says its not taking it away?

3. Don't know. It's possible I suppose and I'm not going to rule it out completely.

4. Profound? No. Different yes. This is a bone of contention for some as they think that if I assign it a value like "a big difference" then that equals a specific amount. Large or Profound to one is different to another. For instance, there is a friend of mine who we talked about steak one time. He loves the steak from places like Ryan's or Western Sizzlin and while I think their crap and the difference between the steak I get there and the steak I can get from a local place is huge, he just says they are different and he is not willing to pay for it even if its for a few bucks.

 

[Brad_Harper]

My home theater is full of Radio shack cables. All are properly shielded and have robust RCA plugs. I think they were all around $30 Canadian a piece. They were the cheapest I could find that had proper construction. As I have stated in a previous post all your cables should be shielded and routed properly to eliminate noise intrusion onto the wires from A/C lines. Interference from other sources will cause sound quality problems. The wire itself will not.