Plasma guys anywhere? (1 Viewer)

[KeithR]

Thinking of buying the new Pannie 42" as my bonus present to myself. How do they compare to the Sony and Nec in this price range? Do they do 1080i, and are therefore HDTV upgradable? I saw one today, and it REALLY did BLACK...looked unbelievable.
Also saw the new Samsung FLCD today at JandR...bad display position, as it was right in front of the store facing the door...when they move it downstairs it will be better to judge I guess. Anyone seen or heard of FLCD's benefits vs. the pricy DLPs?
Thanks in advance!

 

[Tom Oh]

I bought a Panasonic TH-42PW3 about a month ago in HK and am very happy with it. Monito only unit does 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i. I chose it over Sony, Phillips and NEC models based on the picture. Pan model has the highest brightness (650 cd/m2) and contrast ratio (3000:1 !) among all plasma models. It cost me a hefty $9,000 with delivery and wall mount installation. I would make sure to buy any plasma at a retail shop. The first unit I got had a 1 dead pixel (out of 408,960), my guy replaced the unit the next day. I aslo purchased Sony 9000ES to do progressive and now the picture looks fantastic! If you can afford it, then plasma is the way to go. Having said that, if I had a big house with a dark room I could dedicate to HT, I would have purchased a front projector.

 

[Allan Jayne]

While many plasma screens will deliver a picture from 1080i signals, they only have 480 or 540 rows of pixels. Using a magnifying glass you can count the rows in a 1x1 inch square marked off with tape and then multiply by the screen dimensions. If there are 480 rows, the video is either displayed as 540p (essentially the same as 1080i format wise) cropping off the first 30 and last 30 scan lines, or by downconverting 540p to 480p.
If the plasma system cropped the first 30 and last 30 rows, you are not getting much less picture than the typical RPTV which also crops a few scan lines due to overscan.
Other video hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm

 

[KeithR]

Thanks guys!
Tom, i guess I am in the same boat as you. I would prefer to go front projection, but i live in an apartment, and will continue to do so (NYC) for a few years. There just isnt the proper placement options for an NEC LT150 or a DLIA. I am thinking if I get the plasma in a month, then i will enjoy it for several years before I get a front projection rig. Then the plasma can go in a bedroom or something...which is ideal i think.
A couple more questions!
Are the pixel rows 540 or 480 as the following poster commented?
Does this unit benefit from an outboard video scalar (thinkin Faroudja NRS) or do you run it without a scalar?
If you run it with a scalar, is a progressive scan dvd player necessary?
Is there anything out there that talks about the longevity of the units? I know bulbs go out on projectors, but can the plasma "go out"?
Thanks!

 

[KeithR]

Oh yeah, one more thing Tom,
I am buying it from a local dealer who will give me aggressive pricing, as the Plasmadepot.coms of the world look shady to me (especially the gomez reports on these dealers, and i still can't figure out if they are authorized or not). I will probalby pay 8k total, and a few hundred over the etailers, but I agree, i don't want to ship it back the day i got it because of dead pixels.
Final question--how do the wall mounts work? do you have to find studs, or can it be hung on the 3/4 sheetrock directly?

 

[Tom Oh]

Keith,
To answer your questions:
1. Panasonic is 852 X 480 pixels
2. I am not familiar with video scalar except that it is expensive. Salesman said I didn't needed with a progressive player.
3. Longevity-not sure. It better last at least 5 years.
4. Installation was done by the retailer. They drilled holes in the concrete wall to mount. I'm not an expert so cannot be specific.
FYI, look at the following sites for more detailed info:
http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/
http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasm...atvreview.html
Hope this helps.
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[JoeB]

KeithR,
Remember the pany 42 will not do HDTV. It has a great picture for NTSC.
Joe

 

[Tom Oh]

Joe,
You are misinformed. Pany does 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. The last 2 are considered HDTV signals.

 

[Stephen Tu]

Tom, your own specs (852x480) support Joe's statement. Most of us think that a TV which accepts an HDTV signal but doesn't display HDTV doesn't qualify as "doing HDTV". Since it is scaling all HDTV signals down to 852x480p it would qualify as an "EDTV". The display would have to be at least 1280x720 pixels to qualify as displaying HDTV.
Since the longevity of plasma seems to be a question mark, and the other display technologies provide more resolution, I'd be leery of getting plasma unless you have an absolute requirement for the form factor of the set.

 

[KeithR]

Steven,
It is interesting, because over at avsforum.com there is a guy with a 42 panny and a 53 elite, and the plasma outperforms the elite on hdtv...i agree that technically you have to have a million pixels for hdtv, which only the 50" plasmas have, but the picture on the pannies is unreal for the price differential.
I live in NYC, and apartments here don't lend themselves to big tvs. Although I have considered the Toshiba 40H80, but having a plasma up on the wall is appealing. Price is not a factor here, but I agree that I would like to know more about longevity.
Thanks,
Keith

 

[RyanDinan]

It is interesting, because over at avsforum.com there is a guy with a 42 panny and a 53 elite, and the plasma outperforms the elite on hdtv...i agree that technically you have to have a million pixels for hdtv, which only the 50" plasmas have, but the picture on the pannies is unreal for the price differential.

Keith,
How exactly does it outperform the Elite? I betting that the Elite can resolve a higher resolution image than that Panny...Hell, I know my Sony HS10 resolves a higher resolution image (at least 1000x960, and possibly up to 1200x1080), and it's allot cheaper than that Elite.
The only benifits I can see for getting a plasma are 1)the size and 2)to show off the amount of expendable income you have

.
But seriously, there are allot of less-expensive RPTV HDTV's out there that crush plasmas in terms of image detail.
The fixed and relatively low pixel count is a commonly unmentioned limitation of plasmas/LCD/DLP monitors. Everything they display must be interpolated/scaled to it's native resolution -whatever that may be - Which is often lower than that of a less-expensive RPTV. Not to mention the fact that the interpolating/scaling can degrade the image which you ultimately see.
But they are sexy looking devices......
-Ryan Dinan
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[Tom Oh]

I take slight offense to remark by Ryan since it had a smile .

The only benifits I can see for getting a plasma are 1)the size and 2)to show off the amount of expendable income you have .

My reasonsfor getting the Panny plasma was space and the fact that they don't sell 16x9 RPTV here in HK. Also, I cannot go with front projection since my apartment is small. Yes I scrimped like crazy to buy this unit. I also had to beg my wife.
I agree with the comments made by posts above. However, what I can say is that the picture looks absolutely fabulous! If it didn't, I would purchase a Wega and waited for a 16x9 RPTV or direct view. I looked at the Philips direct view and plasma , but wasn't impressed.
Take a look at the Panny before knocking. It is amazing.

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[KeithR]

Ryan,
Because resolution is only one part of the package. Contrast ratios, color defnition, and other aspects define how the tv looks....here is the post below from avsforum. I think also that the plasmas have so many lamberts in the brightness category that they look better the rptvs, because CRTs can't possibly put that much light out. Now, in a completely dark room, it may not matter, but with ambient light, the plasma gets the nod. Also, I am buying because of form! Seriously, I can't fit a good rptv up here in my NYC apartment...it would take up half the living room.
This is a response to the Sony vs. panny plasma issue:
I would have to disagree with a few things that the previous poster reported. First off, true HDTV is a
generally considered 1 million pixels. It can go to 2 million, but the digital standards regard anything over 1
million (actually 972,800 and up) True HDTV. Secondly to the questions that you asked about. First off, the sony will look better with a scaler, but will it look better then the panny is the true question? The answer is no! When I set out on buying a plasma, I looked at every model and every brand. I can tell you that the panny was the best hands down. After first viewing the panny, I became aware that resoulution is not everything. Contrast is, especially when refering to a plasma. The panny bested not only all plasmas, but all Direct view and HD RPTVs I have seen. I own a ISFd Pioneer Elite. Both I and others who have seen both TVs at my house, agree that the panasonic produces a better picture, including when using HDTV sources. The
sony, claims its naitive panel resoulution is 1024*1024, which is true to an extent. However, it is not 1024*1024 progressive. It is really 1024*512 with the other 512 interlaced. This inturn, intruduces unwanted artifacts. So, in reality the sony only has about 150,000 more pixels then the panny. So with resolution not that far off, you have to go to actually performance of the 2 displays. The sony is no match for the panny as far as picture goes. No pictue is. The panny, though only a 480p display, will produce the best HDTV picture you can buy(until the 50inch panny is released of course) . The only thing that comes close at that price
point, is the new NEC42MP2. Not as good as the panny, but a solid display nonetheless (also better than the sony). A scaler will help the panny, but to be honest, it doesnt really need one, not as bad as the sony does.
My advice, just scrap all of the statistics and specifications of the models and just take your own source
material to your local AV store and view both displays for yourself. Only your eyes can truely be the judge.
Scaler or not the 42 and 50 inch panny displays just wipe the floor with all other displays.

 

[RyanDinan]

Sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone -
Plasmas definately have their niche - I'm not denying that. I'm just surprised that a plasma having half the available resolution of an RPTV HD set, could look "hands down" better. Maybe it's just the size difference? I personally think it would be somewhat difficult to tell much of a difference between a 40" set displaying a 1920x1080 image and a 40" set displaying 960x540 image -Simply due to the "smallness" - All that detail gets lost optically - The human eye just can't see it at normal viewing distances.
However - Bump that size up, and I bet you'll see detail you just can't see on a smaller set. There is a point of diminishing returns - After a certain point, an increase in resolution won't make a noticeable increase in detail. Higher resolutions lend themselves to larger screens. I guess for a 40" set, this resolution point is 960x540...Anything higher than that for a screen of that size is not noticeable? Just a theory...
-Ryan Dinan
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[Tom Oh]

Ryan, note the on my comment. I do see your point on how there could be difference on a larger size monitor. As I have mentioned before, the video presentation of anamorphic DVDs are pretty spectacular on Panny-the main reason for the purchase.
It goes without saying that consumers love to see positive responses to their h/w. I'm no different and this probably makes me biased. But, I did compare, study and analyze my options, and Panny was the best plasma for the price range I was looking for. Is it the best for the price? Hard to say since I did not get to compare it to RPTV and front projector. Do I regret my purcase? NO!
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[KeithR]

Don't worry Ryan...you didn't offend anyone. I find it hard to believe too, as I have always heard to buy the most resolution you can. However, I finally saw the panasonic, and it really IS that good. You may be right that it is a screen size issue. However, I think the fact that plasmas are so much brighter, and this one provides so much contrast are the main reasons.

 

[Greg Silberman]

Hello
I found the following site very useful.
Link Removed
I have also been looking at plasma as an alternative to a front projector (at least until we move out of NYC). The purchase is on hold because we may be moving sooner than expected.
For me the Pioneer PDP-503MX is really tempting. It takes a plug in card which allows for just about any connection you can imagine and it can do HD Resolution(1280x768). The retail is $17,999 but I have seen them advertised for less than $10K including the connector card (which retails for about $250) and includes free shipping.
Has anyone here done a comparison between the new 50 inch Panasonic and the new 50 inch Pioneer? Does anyone know where I can see both displays? Thanks.
Regards,
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Gregory P. Silberman
[email protected]
[Edited last by Greg Silberman on November 05, 2001 at 06:03 PM]
[Edited last by Greg Silberman on November 05, 2001 at 06:03 PM]

 

[Luke_Y]

Well I can't afford one yet but I have been keeping a lazy eye on them. I am no expert on Plasmas but will still throw in my opinion.
If HDTV is important to you then the 42" Sony seems to be the best deal for the $$ (you get true HD for well under 8k street)
If you can live with 480p then the Fujitsu 42" seems to be the best bang for buck in plasma (480p for well under 7k street)
Both of these displays offer a picture that will floor you (at least I think so) but the larger screens are WAY out of my range so I don't even follow them and can't comment.
I think the 42" displays would be excellent for living room viewing in the daytime or at night with the lights on and would love to have one. Just wish the price on the smaller displays would drop enough to justify it! I would still prefer the large screen HD RP in a dark room for the true theater experience though.
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Luke

 

[Luke_Y]

Greg, Was just checking out the Pioneer on the link you gave and on some other sites. Man that's a sweet display. But 10k more for 8 inches over the Sony. Can't say I could bring myself to pay that premium

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Luke