Outlaw 950 pre/pro

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Kieran Coghlan, Mar 31, 2003.

  1. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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    I've been considering the Outlaw 950/710 combo package.

    One of the main things I'm interested in is the 950's ability to apply analog bass management to a DVD-A (or SACD although I don't have SACD) analog signal.

    I was wondering if any owners out there could voice their oppinions/impressions of this feature.

    Also, although this doesn't apply to my current speaker configuration, I was wondering WHY Outlaw chose to sum bass below 80Hz and send it to the sub, even when the analog bass management is set to OFF? It seems to me that if someone really had true full range speakers on all channels, and wanted no bass management for dvd-a/sacd, that this would be detrimental... you would get TOO much bass in this situation. Major bummer...

    Any comments on that?

    Also, there are lots of positive reviews to be found about the 950, but I was wondering if anyone out there could post some complaints they've had of the 950... what DON'T you like about it?

    Oh, and before you give a general blanket response of "do a search this has been covered" I'm in the process of searching and thought that I'd post as well... as there are a lot of 950 hits to sort though.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Jed M

    Jed M Cinematographer

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    One thing I don't like about it is you can't discuss it at the HTF without the thread closing as I am sure you will discover through your search process. Another thing I don't like about it is you will hear a bunch of opinions from people who have never owned it, or heard at a "friends" house.

    As far as the 950 itself goes, my number one complaint would be how it defaults to DPLII when using a dish, unless its in DD. I also really don't like how it looks, the material is fine, its built tough, its just a little too rugged looking. Speaker distance (or lack thereof)does not bother me since it is in a dedicated theater room.
    And just to get under somebody's skin, I would say it easily competes with Pre/pro 3X-4X its price. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  3. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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  4. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    If you use the 80 Hz analog crossover, the 5.1 analog input BM works as expected. As far as that summing even if that switch is dis-engaged, the Rotel 1066 does the same, AND IS A BUG. But at least on the 950, doesn't apply if you use the analog crossover, which in my opinion is still a key feature that no other pre/pro or receiver that I know of offers.

    Distance settings? The 950 has them. Front L & R, front center, and surrounds + rears. It would be nice to split out the last 2, and it would be nice to have a distance setting to the sub, but that's not mandatory if there isn't a large difference in distance between you and your mains vs you and the sub.

    Other complaints? I hate the remote, but I've gotten used to it. And the faceplate is asthetically challenged. [​IMG]
     
  5. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Get the Outlaw for sure. I heard one owner stated that he likes it better than $3-4k prepros, and would only trade for the Lexicon MC12 [​IMG]
     
  6. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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    Kevin C. Brown wrote:
     
  7. Jed M

    Jed M Cinematographer

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    I wouldn't trade mine for anything, even if I had a disease that was going to kill me and I could trade my 950 for the cure. [​IMG]
     
  8. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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    From the 950 Owner's manual:
     
  9. ChrisHeflen

    ChrisHeflen Supporting Actor

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    You would find alot of info over at Outlaws website.
    www.outlawaudio.com

    ...then go to the "hideout" then to the "saloon".

    The people that post are very nice and the guy who goes by "Gonk" is kinda the main man who knows his "shtuff".
     
  10. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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    I just felt like I might find less biased oppinions here...
     
  11. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    I can't believe this. Is there a single cheap pre-pro that can work as a complete analog pass-through?? I don't want all the bass to sum to the sub. What the hell is going on in these engineers' minds to do this on purpose?? The analog BM is a great option although I understand the bass is out of phase, but why can't you have a straight pass-through when the BM is disengaged??

    I am not interested in the Outlaw (too ugly) but I am interested in the Sherbourn. I assume everything is exactly the same in the Sherbourn.

    Anyone know if the Adcom and ATI pre-pros can pass DVD-A and SACD signals unaltered??

    Nick V (extremely frustrated)
     
  12. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  13. Chriss M

    Chriss M Second Unit

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    If bass is summed to the subwoofer on the multi-channel inputs, an ICBM cannot help with this. You would have to remove the sub pre-out from the icbm every time you used the analog inputs in order to get correct bass management.

    The quick solution is to just turn off the sub, assuming you want pure pass-through to your main speakers and do not want to use an external analog crossover to route the signal to your sub.
     
  14. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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    Chriss M:

    That wouldn't work, either, because a lot of SACD/DVD-A material has .1/LFE information, that is strictly on the .1/LFE channel. If you unplugged your sub, you'd loose that info.
     
  15. Chriss M

    Chriss M Second Unit

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    Yup that's true. Do alot of discs actually use the .1 channel for bass? It seems odd to me on a high quality SACD or DVD-AUDIO disc to put mono bass information in the LFE channel. I know that some of the "audiophile" recording labels have been using the .1 channel for other things, like an added height channel.

    I only listen to stereo SACD so i don't really have any experience with the multi-channel mixes.
     
  16. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Kieran - Yes, you still get the summing to the sub if the 80 Hz analog crossover is engaged. THAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. But since that info is REMOVED from the mains, voila you have a CROSSOVER which is high pass filters *in combination* with low pass filters. Make sense? [​IMG]
     
  17. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Wow, getting complicated here.

     
  18. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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  19. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  20. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    My setup:

    all small everywhere, sub on.

    80 Hz analog x-over, on.

    Digital x-over settings: center 120 Hz, mains 60 Hz, rears/surrounds 100 Hz.

    Everything calibrates as it should: speaker levels, and phase between the fronts and sub.

    Phase would be the only issue anyway, because for speaker levels, you use the levels in the 950 for the digital crossover, and the levels in the player for analog 5.1.

    There is the issue of the phase difference to the sub between the digital and analog crossovers, but that's not because of any *difference* in crossover freq selection, but more globally, digital vs analog. (Caveat, some people like me see this, some don't. Just flip the switch, invert the input on the sub when switching back and forth.)
     

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