Onkyo 706/806 (7.1) Question (1 Viewer)

[bozobytes]

It's beginning to look like Christmas here...kool!

This question is for anyone who just happens to have a Onkyo 706 and a 7.1 channel system.
I was reading about the Onkyo 706 and it's misquoted as saying that it is a 100w Power supply, but only with the two fronts. If I was using let's say a 7.1 channel,then it would be about 20w per channel,is this going to suck on the overall experience? How does yours sound and what speakers are you using?

Becuase of my budget, I was thinking if I won the lottery, I could spend the money on speakers, but all I can afford is going with the HSU research Performance 1 6.1 setup for $500.00. I was also looking at the RBH CT entry level 5.1 speakers, ($1200.00) but can only get them through a dealer and not factory direct,which I wanted to save some money.


I don't know if anyone has the HSU research Performance 1 6.1 speakers($500.00) or the RBH 5.1,(1200.00) or even the SVsound 5.1 channel system (1200.00) speakers powered by the Onkyo 706 or the 806 AVR, without any problems, or dissatisfaction on the sound output .

This den is only 12' long, 9' wide, and 8' high, so I really want good full sound,but I am not going to crank it up too much. How about Yamaha 663 or Pioneer?
Thanks! Happy Holidaze!

Also on these AVR's, are most people using the Antec A/V coolers?

 

[Mark-P]

Go to Onkyo's website and look at the specifications. You will see the receiver is rated at 100 watts PER CHANNEL. That's a total of 700 watts. You should have no issues with this receiver having plenty of power for your needs.

 

[David Willow]

The 706 has more than enough power to handle any of the speakers you mention. If you can get the SVS, I say go for it.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

And if you need more power and Bi-Amplification (like I do) step up to the SR806 130 Watts per channel x 7 channels and the ability to reassign Surround Back channels to the mains (I don't run Surr Back) I now have 260 watts going to the Left Main and 260 watts going to the Right Main.

Love my new 806

 

[bozobytes]

Thanks David,Mark-P, and Brett,

Brett, so you reassigned the Surround Back channels to the mains, do you miss the back surround effect,or does all the channels come out in the front with a 3.1? Do you think the back surround effect is overrated?


Mark-P, this is why I said that about the power supply.....someone wrote a review on Amazon for the 706,and this is what he said...



So, In closing, I'm a;slo on the speaker fence about wherther it would sound better with floor-standers or book shelfs as opposed to hanging satellites on the walls.
Thank you!

 

[David Willow]

Just so you know, Bi-Amping does not double the power. It simply sends the same 100 watts to the mids/tweeters and to the lows separately. I tried it briefly and noticed no difference. For me in my room, I'd rather have 7.1. I have about 12 feet between the listing area and the back wall.

I'm not sure what the guy on Amazon was trying to say... Maybe he has the unit in a cabinet causing the fan to turn on. He obviously doesn't have a clue about the power, so who knows...

I say go for the floor standers. When I purchased my new speakers this year I got way more than what I need for my current room. I do not plan to purchase speakers again for a very long time, so I over did it with the idea that I would eventually move them to a bigger room.

 

[Brent_S]

Referring to the Amazon "review"...lots of self proclaimed experts out there. Sound & Vision found *slightly* different results when they did a real bench test on the 706.

-Brent

 

[bozobytes]

Thanks for the "bench test" review Brent_S.
The old putting the cart before the horse adage applies to me as I first I bought the 46" Samsung A750, hung that on the wall, then I bought the console for the components which has two glass front doors. They have small ventilation holes in the back,but according to the Onkyo 706 review (below) it has to be well-ventilated. I don't want to put anything on top of the console except my center speaker.

Maybe for my small modest 12'long x 9'wide room I'm overthinking the power that I would need for both the speakers and the AVR.
True, I would very much like to enjoy surround, and yes, it has to be much better than a basic HTiab, but...
1) Do I really need a 7.1 channel for this small room?
2) If I opt for just the 3.1 (center, two floorstanders, and a sub,would I be alright with that and won't miss the surround sound experience? WHAT? Oh yeah, I sound confused because I am confused.

It would be great to get the 706/or 806 with pre-out's if I ever want to move this into the bigger room, but chances are, I'll never do it. Heck, I've been wanting to add surround to my computer's two channel system for almost seven years, but got use to the two speakers...and I listen to alot of music, and I also used to play

(truth be told, I do not have a skinny, pointy,yellow head like this dude does)

I don't need anything that's going to overheat and fail, I guess I could replace the glass doors with screen fabric,or get an antec A/V cooling fan. Would the fan alone help this?


I DO very much appreciate ALL the feedback you all are throwing my way,this gets so daunting, besides I'm going through a rough patch as my doctor informed me just today that I have low-grade prostate cancer, but will still need surgery.:frowning:

I know I sound wishy-washy,but I don't want to be sorry for spending money on the Onkyo 706,only to have it fry and have meltdown. Happy Holidays and thanks again!

 

[David Willow]

Very sorry to hear about the prostate problems. Hope everything works out for you.

I don't recommend putting any AVR in an enclosed area. They all get warm. Only thing to do is try it and see how warm it gets. You may be OK.

Most new AVRs will be 7.1 - even the cheap ones. You do not have to use all the channels. There are similar systems from Yamaha, Denon, and Pioneer, but they will cost a bit more then the Onkyos.

 

[gene c]

I also think the 706 would have more than enough power, especially for a 12' X 9' room. Quite often receivers aren't setup properly causing poor performance and less than flattering reviews. I'm currently using an H/K 435 (65 wpc) in a 13' X 10' room and volume isn't a problem. It shouldn't be with the 706 either.

As for 3.1, 5.1 or 7.1 I'm using 5.1. Too me, 7.1 isn't beneficial in a room that size. It's just too small. 3.1 can be enjoyable, particularly with movies, but you will miss the surround effect on occasion. I would go with a 5.1 and pass on bi-amping. But of course, it's your call.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

David,

You are a bit confused on Bi-Amping. Do NOT confuse BiAmping with Bi-Wiring. My mains have completely seperated crossover networks, the lows have thier own network as do the mids/highs. When I enable Bi-Amp in my 806 and wire accordingly, I am, indeed, sending 130 Watts RMS to the Mids/Tweeters and 130 Watts RMS to each 10" sub. That is a total output of 260 watts RMS per main. (The math, is correct).

 

[Brett DiMichele]

I do not miss 7.1 because I lack the room to pull it off. 5.1 sounds fantastic and I would not give my floor standers up for anything.

 

[David Willow]

I am not confused. You are sending 130 watts twice, not 260 watts once. The max you get to mid/tweeter is 130 watts, and same goes for the low range speaker. The biggest user of this power is the lower frequency, which is still only getting the 130 watts. This is PASSIVE bi-amping, which is what you get if you use the internal amps and remove the straps from the binding posts on the speakers. You have obviously went further then this and actually setup your own crossovers and your actually using external amps (I think that's what I understand you saying).

I not here to debate the merits of this, but the OP should be aware it is not as straight forward as you would have them believe. Of course it doesn't hurt to try it, and if you like it, keep it.

Here's a few articles on the subject if you are bored:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tips_biwir..._biamping.html

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/biamping.html

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

 

[Brett DiMichele]

David,

Ohhh I just figured out we're arguing semantics! The total amount of wattage RMS going to each main speaker (total) is 260 watts. Correct that no "one" driver is getting 260 watts of power, all the drivers in each cabinet will in total, equal out to 260 watts. That's 130 watts to drive two 5.25 Midranges and a 1" tweeter, and 130 watts to drive a 10" sub woofer.

That adds up to 260 to the left, 260 to the right, total.... At any given time that number will be much less due to dynamic loading, though the sub will always consume more than the mids/tweeters.

FWIW no I did not split my networks, they came straight out of the box, intended for Bi-Amplification (not bi-wiring). Bi-wiring is useless. Bi-Amplification makes perfect sense and anyone with hearing will know the difference between powering my speakers with the straps in place and 130 watts RMS, or with the straps removed and Bi-Amped with 260 watts.

The Subs won't even move when feeding each floor stander with just 130. Send just the sub 130 and the subs jump out of the cabinet like any good sub should.


So are we in agreement yet? I've been at this for a few years and I'm fairly familiar... As you can see by my join date, post count and my post history, I did lots of posting on the DIY forums here...

 

[David Willow]

No point in arguing - it is not possible to win. In my opinion it is not worth it. Maybe its my post count, but I'm pretty sure my opinion wouldn't change if I joined 20 years ago. Search this forum and others and you will see what I mean.

I really hate comments like "anyone with hearing". Why does it always get personal?

 

[David Willow]

Getting back to the original question (sorry for the hijack), SVS speakers and the 706 or 806 and you will smiling. Bi-amp if you want and decide for yourself if you like it. Since it seems you will want 5.1, there's nothing lost. Let us know what you decide.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

It is not a thread hijack when we are talking about particular features of a receiver that the OP wants to know about.

I want you to elaborate on "not hearing a difference". When a 130 watts is not enough to adequately drive full range floor standing speakers, an additional 130 watts for the low end section, most certainly makes a noticeable difference in both hearing and in SPL measurements (I can post data if you want). We're not arguing, we are conversing, debating at best. And it's relevant to the topic.. The OP was considering floor standers, if you are going with floor standers and can afford full range, why not...

 

[Brent_S]

Brett, I don't think you clearly understand the physics behind bi-amping. There is no "additional 130 watts" available. With passive bi-amp, as done in most (all?) receivers, the amp channel you have connected to the mid/tweeter posts is still amplifying the bass frequencie, but the crossover is soaking up that signal. Likewise, the bass section is still receiving the mid/tweeter signal, but releasing it as heat in the crossover.

I would be interested in seeing your measurements, including the methodology used to guarantee a true A/B. Even if it worked the way you suggested, doubling the power will only produce a +3dB change in max SPL output. 3dB is the smallest incremental SPL change the average human can detect on complex waveforms. Under clinical conditions using pure tones, our precision drops to 1dB.

You also seem to subscribe to the theory of a given speaker, such as floor standers, "needing" more power. Don't confuse power handling with power requirements. Let's look at Polk, because they make the comparison easy. The RTiA7 tower with 2x7" woofers, 1x6.5" mid, and 1x1" tweeter is rated at 89dB@1w/1m. The bookshelf RTiA3 with a single 6.5" mid/woofer and 1" tweeter is also rated at 89db@1w/1m. Assuming Polk is being honest with their specs, if you feed both speakers the same signal power within their operating frequency range, they will produce the same SPL. The A7 can absorb more power in the low frequencies due to more and larger drivers, but they don't need more power to produce a given SPL.

Apologies, Bozobytes, as we continue to stay off course of your original question. I too, hope everything goes smoothly with your health.

-Brent

 

[David Willow]

OK, first lets set the context for my remarks. My room is slightly bigger the the OP's room. I'm using a 100 watt Onkyo 705 to drive my Axiom M60s. They are crossed over at 80hz to allow my SVS sub to handle the low range.

Now, given my setup, I can get spl readings way above reference. I am not even beginning to stress the amp in the 705. When I bi-amped the M60's, I did not hear or measure a difference.

The OP's room is smaller than mine and the speakers he is looking at are slightly less sensitive (89db vs 84db) and the amp is more powerful. Given these facts, I'd expect to not hear any difference in his room, either.

If you have the resources and have a need to fill a very large area with sound, bi-amping with powerful external amps and external crossovers is a good way to go. For a small room with off the shelf speakers, I see no point in it.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

I do not disagree that it may not be beneficial given room dimensions. I run my setup in a 20Lx16.5W with 10' ceilings. I've used both a receiver with an outboard amp (Onk TX787 + M282) I've also used the M282 + SET Tube Monoblocks and a Halo P3, currently the SR806 BiAmped and it drives them better than the 787 + 282 ever did.

Brent,

I don't have the desire to refute your post right now.. But research the 806. When it's in BiAmp operation, it is not sending full range signals to the woofers and the high end the networks are not "soaking up" power and turning it into heat.

And I also have to say, I have my fingers crossed for you bozobytes, I wish you a quick recovery.