Netflix @ CES and their take on 4K optical media (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Collins]

At CES this year, everyone was showing or talking about 4K. It was the same hype that occurred years ago around 3D (the last time I went to CES). However, just like the CES when 3D was all the rage, there was one thing missing.... The content!

Netflix is one company that is uniquely positioned to meet the needs of the manufacturers and the consumer market. 4K may be the disruptor in the market that Netflix needs to have it go to the next level in size. It could be that Netflix changes the way we watch TV to the one that changes the TV business itself!

Supposedly 4K cameras are trickling into TV production, networks like AMC and Fox aren't anywhere close to broadcasting 4K content.

When folks start jumping on deals like the Vizio $999 P-Series UHD TV, they are going to want content and the only place they are really going to get it is over the Internet.

What I found interesting was how Reed Hastings (CEO of Netflix) was quoted at CES. "One of the interesting pieces is that 4K is not going to have a major lifetime on a plastic disc, it is not going to fit on a Blu-Ray disc, and it's unlikely that people are going to want to upgrade their DVD players."

Hmmm... He has some good points there. As discussed in the BDA 4K thread, there is still a committee focused on what codec to use for 4K BD. If anyone would have a handle on codecs and which ones can get the best compression and still have that resolution, it would probably be Reed and his technical crew.

It's not just Reed that is thinking this way. Both Vizio CTO Matt McRae and Sharp SVP of product marketing Jim Sanduski have been quoted as saying that they are betting on streaming as the future of 4K.

Of course all of this plays into Netflilx's other strengths.... they produce content! With the Emmy-winning House of Cards that will have the second season in 4K, they are leading the pack.

Can Amazon catch up? Will we be watching streaming 4K instead of optical disc?

I'm still very skeptical about picture quality when streaming. I need to see it to believe it and I want to see it with test patterns. Otherwise, I'm sticking with 2K Blu-ray...

Who is going to be the first 4K streaming adopter here? Not me... Well, I will probably review it...

 

[rsmithjr]

Streaming still needs to fully utilize the 480i spec as far as I am concerned. Moreover, the masters that companies like Netflix are using are old, sometimes incomplete, and basically unacceptable. It is an innately low quality affair. [I have two of these services, Netflix and Amazon, and heaven knows I have tried to give them a try and be fair, but I just can't watch the stuff.

My ISP, Comcast, sent me an email yesterday, inviting me to check out "The Searchers" on their streaming. I did. I am sure I could be heard screaming "vistaVision" 2 blocks away. A million miles from the Blu-ray or a 35mm dye-transfer print.

If the future of 4k is Reed Hastings and Netflix, it will be a pretty dismal affair.

 

[Dave H]

I personally think it's going to take 4K Blu to really get this whole 4K thing moving in the right direction from a content perspective. The infrastructure is just not there in the U.S. to sufficiently support streaming (and a lot of people don't want to bother with it) and I agree, I am very skeptical of the quality of streaming 4K (even with new codec) when 720p and 1080p streaming are not up to my standards.

 

[Dave H]

Streaming still needs to fully utilize the 480i spec as far as I am concerned. Moreover, the masters that companies like Netflix are using are old, sometimes incomplete, and basically unacceptable. It is an innately low quality affair. [I have two of these services, Netflix and Amazon, and heaven knows I have tried to give them a try and be fair, but I just can't watch the stuff.

My ISP, Comcast, sent me an email yesterday, inviting me to check out "The Searchers" on their streaming. I did. I am sure I could be heard screaming "vistaVision" 2 blocks away. A million miles from the Blu-ray or a 35mm dye-transfer print.

If the future of 4k is Reed Hastings and Netflix, it will be a pretty dismal affair.

Agreed!

 

[mattCR]

I fear with net neutrality taking a swan dive yesterday, cheap netflix may quickly be a thing of the past.

 

[Ejanss]

At CES this year, everyone was showing or talking about 4K. It was the same hype that occurred years ago around 3D (the last time I went to CES). However, just like the CES when 3D was all the rage, there was one thing missing.... The content!
Supposedly 4K cameras are trickling into TV production, networks like AMC and Fox aren't anywhere close to broadcasting 4K content.

What I found interesting was how Reed Hastings (CEO of Netflix) was quoted at CES. "One of the interesting pieces is that 4K is not going to have a major lifetime on a plastic disc, it is not going to fit on a Blu-Ray disc, and it's unlikely that people are going to want to upgrade their DVD players."

Who is going to be the first 4K streaming adopter here? Not me... Well, I will probably review it...

In defense of Reed for a moment, he's right--No matter how you feel about 3D, at least the wider public knows what 3D is, and whether you can get them to buy it is another sales matter entirely.
Most average non-buff fans frankly do not know what 4K is, and when you explain it to them...THEY STILL DON'T CARE!!!
("Oh, but if you show them, they'll be amazed!"...Yeah, either that, or they'll think it's just the Blu-ray.)

With Netflix trying to keep up its hard-disk market, its goodwill for new technologies is running too thin to spread around:
They were right there on both sides in the thick of the HDDVD vs. Blu war from day one, and kept us early adopters from starving. 3D, they dragged their heels because the cost was too high, and eventually relegated it to streaming, on systems so impossibly high, few customers could log on.
And now 4K? Again, I'm with Reed: Too few customers, and too high bandwidth.

4K won't Edsel overnight like the SACD or D-VHS, it's got too much wishful support among buffs and company execs. But problem is, we already had an amazing high-end format that only expensive tech-buffs knew or cared about--It was called "Laser disk."

 

[Yorkshire]

I have a different point of view. 4K may take because it's such an easy sell.

Can you see a difference with high def? This is higher def?

Can't see a difference with high def? You will with higher def.

Coupled with side-by-side displays where the HD is knobled and the consumer is stood 2' away from a 70" UHD set.

Steve W

 

[Everett S.]

When it looks like 70mm call me. Even the theatres IMAX Digital Projection does not look very good.

 

[Brian Dobbs]

Streaming sucks NOW.

UHD streaming will suck too.

Please give me UHD Blu-ray or something equivalent.

 

[Towergrove]

Lets see how well UHD on Netflix goes over post net neutrality defeat. Open your pocketbooks people!

 

[jcroy]

One easy (but perhaps punishing for the hardware and movie companies) way of possibly encouraging people to go 4K bluray from the start:

- $100 4K bluray players from the start

and

- 4K bluray discs packaged in combo packs with 2K bluray + dvd + digital download.

 

[Yorkshire]

Surely that should be 4K, 4K 3D, 1080p, 1080p 3D, DVD, UV code, VHS, Super 8, wax cylinder.



Steve W

 

[jcroy]

Surely that should be 4K, 4K 3D, 1080p, 1080p 3D, DVD, UV code, VHS, Super 8, wax cylinder.



Steve W

Don't forget the Holodeck and Skynet versions too.

 

[John Sparks]

Listening to Joe Kane, they haven't even come up with specifics on color, etc., for 2060 (4K). And, if you continue to listen to him, not sure how right he is, you need a minimum 6' wide screen to really get everything out of 1080 and at least a 10' wide to get anything out of 2060.

 

[Dave H]

Listening to Joe Kane, they haven't even come up with specifics on color, etc., for 2060 (4K). And, if you continue to listen to him, not sure how right he is, you need a minimum 6' wide screen to really get everything out of 1080 and at least a 10' wide to get anything out of 2060.

Yeah, I saw that interview with him and while it was very interesting, I don't agree with his take on 1080p.

 

[RolandL]

...Of course all of this plays into Netflilx's other strengths.... they produce content! With the Emmy-winning House of Cards that will have the second season in 4K, they are leading the pack.

House of Cards in 4K? The PQ varies from 1080 down to what looks like 240. It's not my internet speed as thats 50mps. If I switch to another TV episode or movie on Netlfix, they look like 1080.

 

[Brian Kidd]

Here's the thing: UHD is only noticeably superior to current HD on really large televisions. The average consumer isn't going to be able to afford such a large TV. Also, many ISPs have data caps. Streaming UHD will take quite a fat pipe. Heck, even 1080p streaming requires pretty fast speeds and pales in comparison to Blu-ray. People just got rid of their old SD sets and aren't going to be willing to replace their HD sets so quickly. I would love 4K video, but I, like most folks here, am not the average consumers of A/V equipment. I remain skeptical of 4K's chances of success.

 

[Bobby Henderson]

4K Streaming? IMHO, it's a waste of time and bandwidth right now.

Residential Internet connections on average are way way too slow for anything like 4K. The folks running Netflix know this. Just look at how low the bit rates are for their 720p and 1080p streamed content. It's nowhere near Blu-ray quality, or even OTA broadcast quality.

If Netflix, YouTube and others starting to provide 4K content to stream actually made the content available at bit rates that preserved true 4K levels of detail the end user would find the download times really intolerable unless that user was one of the lucky very few who have connections that can stream as speeds of 20Mb/s or better. Too many of us are stuck in the 3-6Mb/s range or slower.

Until the Telcos start treating residential Internet service as something more than a mere afterthought physical media, like Blu-ray, is going to continue delivering the best video playback performance for consumers.

 

[Ethan Riley]

+1 to Bobby's commentary. And I find the notion of 4k streaming to be preposterous with today's technological limitations.

 

[Stephen Brooks]

I don't see how the end of Net Neutrality isn't going to mean the end of Netflix.