Monty Python's Flying Circus 45th anniversary remasterer/ reissue? (1 Viewer)

[Tom St Jones]

Tape shows are NOT easier to restore. Just look at most entries on the Doctor Who Restoration Team's website and how much of a pain in the neck the Jon Pertwee era (which ran contemporaneous with Python albeit with worse archiving) was.

I meant if the original 1982 videotape for "Hollywood Bowl" (from before it was transferred to film) were well-preserved, if the BBC or the Pythons saw to it that it was kept stored properly. Otherwise, I know what you're saying.

 

[Nailwraps]

Sorry to bump a 3 month old thread, but after reading this I thought; if (and I mean IF since it seems we don't know if A&E still has it) Flying Circus is no longer with A&E, could it be possible for the BBC to (re)acquire the rights or is there something forcing to prevent that from happening? I don't care if they don't but I'm just saying.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Sorry to bump a 3 month old thread, but after reading this I thought; if (and I mean IF since it seems we don't know if A&E still has it) Flying Circus is no longer with A&E, could it be possible for the BBC to (re)acquire the rights or is there something forcing to prevent that from happening? I don't care if they don't but I'm just saying.

I'm sure WB (who IIRC release the BBC Worldwide discs) could acquire the rights to release Python discs, but why would thety? They don't really release their own old shows outside the archives.

And that's all anyone would be getting... the rights to release new DVDs or blu rays, unless for some reasons the Pythons were looking to sell.

No, if A&E were to no longer have rights to release Python DVDs, this would be a Shout Factory or MPI or VEI sort of acquisition, not BBC Worldwide or WB.

 

[Derek Martz]

With StudioCanal releasing The Avengers on Blu-ray, anything is possible.

 

[Tom St Jones]

With StudioCanal releasing The Avengers on Blu-ray, anything is possible.

I understand the main point of your statement - to which I say "yes", anything IS always possible.
However, I'm not so sure a BLU-RAY release could happen with Python. As with many British TV series and telefilms (or should it be "tellyfilms''? ) of the era, the interiors were usually captured on videotape with the exteriors being shot on film. This was mostly a cost-cutting compromise, which I think most viewers of the time forgave or didn't even notice. Unless someone someday invents a way to bring out information that's not there, videotape does not/ did not have the resolution necessary for true high-definition. Yes, I realise it could "still" be released in SD on Blu-ray anyway (like Eagle Rock has done with some music programs recently), which may allow just the slightest bump in resolution.

 

[Lord Dalek]

With StudioCanal releasing The Avengers on Blu-ray, anything is possible.

Apples and oranges. The Diana Rigg episodes of The Avengers were shot on high quality 35mm stock for foreign sales. Monty Python was shot on SD tape.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

To all those of you disappointed with the US A&E sets, you should consider purchasing the Region 2 PAL set from Sony. At least there are no censorship issues on that set (I think one of the series 4 episodes might have an alternate take of a sketch or a longer version of one episode or something).

I think the only edit (or maybe edits) are music related (there might be a music replacement in the "penguin on the TV" sketch, and I think the brief West Side Story lyric may be deleted from the episode where the Red Indian (Eric Idle) starts to sing "Tonight, Tonight"... in the cinema).

It's been so long, I've forgotten, but the R2 set is much more complete than the R1. You can buy four individual Amarays, or a single digipak containing the whole BBC run.

I sold my A&E set a long time ago when I got to the episode where "masturbation" was silenced on the soundtrack of the Summarise Proust sketch.

 

[Malcolm Bmoor]

This is just a technical generalisation as I have no knowledge of the Monty Python situation.

Location sequences were made on 16mm in those days as lightweight, portable video equipment didn't exist. To record the simplest subject on videotape (2" Quad) required a fleet of large trucks as the cameras too were massive studio models. The operation also required a team of engineers to painstakingly line up and constantly monitor the equipment to deliver consistent Broadcast Quality.

But 16mm was lightweight, portable and needed only a two man camera crew plus a sound recordist with Nagra. It didn't require lining up and didn't drift. The film was sometimes telecined from the negative to save time and print costs and then stored or, in time, dumped. It usually showed signs of wear by the time the programme was complete.

The combined result in a studio drama of this intercutting was always non-credible as the quality, look and feel changed between the 16mm exterior shots and the VT interiors. Lightweight, small crew camera & VT equipment was developed for news as well as drama, although for a long time there was a quality distinction between basic news coverage on Umatic, BVU (a higher grade Umatic) and later, for higher ranking productions, portable 1" that required a VT engineer. Betacam, followed by Betacam SP and eventually Digibeta brought a quality transformation as well as downsizing to a two or one man crew.

The idea that the film inserts for Monty Python were deliberately downgraded is questionable as it's more likely that they merely ended up looking like all the other low budget, quickly produced 16mm material.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

The idea that the film inserts for Monty Python were deliberately downgraded is questionable as it's more likely that they merely ended up looking like all the other low budget, quickly produced 16mm material.

Yes, that's completely ridiculous. One only has to look at pretty much any other BBC series from the same time period to see that the exterior film almost always looks bad, no matter whether you're watching Monty Python, The Goodies or Doctor Who (or anything else).

 

[Lord Dalek]

The BBC was still using their old MK-III Twin Lens Telecines from the mid-1960s up until 1976. You can tell they got new hardware because the film on Tom Baker's era looks much better than Pertwee's.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

The BBC was still using their old MK-III Twin Lens Telecines from the mid-1960s up until 1976. You can tell they got new hardware because the film on Tom Baker's era looks much better than Pertwee's.

And it took until 1987 and the Sylvester McCoy era for the show to be 100% videotaped.

/well, IIRC, there was one early Baker 1 serial where everything, including the outdoors portions were videotaped. But that was a one-off.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

And it took until 1987 and the Sylvester McCoy era for the show to be 100% videotaped.

/well, IIRC, there was one early Baker 1 serial where everything, including the outdoors portions were videotaped. But that was a one-off.

Actually, they started using "Outside Broadcast" for all location work beginning in Season 23 (the Trial season), not Season 24 (though both the "Trial" season and the McCoy era did have the occasional shot-on-film model shot added in).

There were actually two entries from Tom Baker's initial season that were shot entirely on tape. His opening story, "Robot", was shot all on tape, mainly so that when they used CSO (green screen) to inlay the "giant" robot at the end, there wouldn't be as much of a clash (i.e. on-tape robot against a film background).

Two stories later, it was decided to do "The Sontaran Experiment" entirely on location and also entirely on O.B. video rather than film, as an experiment.

I think there may have been a few other "entirely-on-video" Whos after that, but as a rule, they were on tape inside and film outside until 1986, just like the bulk of other BBC programmes.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Full list prior to McCoy...

Robot
The Sontaran Experiment (only Doctor Who shot entirely outdoors)
The Seeds of Doom
The Talons of Weng-Chiang (theater interiors)
The Stones of Blood
Warriors of the Deep (the water tank shot)

The Trial of a Time Lord (Revelation of the Daleks was the last show to use film for exteriors, allegedly they were going to shoot the exteriors for Nightmare Fair on 16mm before the original season 23 was cancelled)

 

[Mark Y]

I remember one sketch on Monty Python where the cast goes outdoors, and the footage switches over to film. One of them says something like "Oh no, we're on film!" IIRC someone makes a phone call seeking help because "this house is surrounded by film!"

 

[Lord Dalek]

I remember one sketch on Monty Python where the cast goes outdoors, and the footage switches over to film. One of them says something like "Oh no, we're on film!" IIRC someone makes a phone call seeking help because "this house is surrounded by film!"

Yeah and then they escape only to get chromakeyed onto one of Gilliam's cartoons.

 

[Ejanss]

I think the only edit (or maybe edits) are music related (there might be a music replacement in the "penguin on the TV" sketch, and I think the brief West Side Story lyric may be deleted from the episode where the Red Indian (Eric Idle) starts to sing "Tonight, Tonight"... in the cinema).

Not to nitpick, but that was Graham Chapman's army colonel turning Standup Comic at the end of the Army Recruitment sketch.
(And I always thought it was cut because he sang "I'm getting p*ssed tonight...", but song rights would explain it too.)

The Pepperpots switching the TV in the Penguin sketch, however, do now drone "I Dream of Jeannie" instead of "Girl From Ipanema", although it does turn up in other sketches.

I sold my A&E set a long time ago when I got to the episode where "masturbation" was silenced on the soundtrack of the Summarise Proust sketch.

I can't recall a time that was ever NOT cut for US TV (including all PBS airings), and only surfaced once during the original DVD release.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Not to nitpick, but that was Graham Chapman's army colonel turning Standup Comic at the end of the Army Recruitment sketch.
(And I always thought it was cut because he sang "I'm getting p*ssed tonight...", but song rights would explain it too.)

The Pepperpots switching the TV in the Penguin sketch, however, do now drone "I Dream of Jeannie" instead of "Girl From Ipanema", although it does turn up in other sketches.


I can't recall a time that was ever NOT cut for US TV (including all PBS airings), and only surfaced once during the original DVD release.

Of course, you're abolutely right about it being Champan, rather than Idle (last time I watched that sketch was about 20 years ago!), uncut of course, but not on TV, rather on the Paramount Home Video VHS release.

Incidentally, the Pepperpots sang "I Dream of Jeannie" on the old Paramount VHS release as well, so that particular music substitution must go back ages!

As for the "masturbation" line in Summarise Proust, I can't vouch for TV airings, but it was released unedited on the Paramount VHS of that particular episode.

When you say "surfaced once during the original DVD release", which release are you talking about? We all know the A&E version is edited, or are you saying the first batch of A&Es were uncensored, and that they went back and cut it out later? As far as I know, you have to go outside of Region 1 to get that sketch unedited, unless you want to go back to the older VHS tapes.

 

[Albert71292]

When you say "surfaced once during the original DVD release", which release are you talking about? We all know the A&E version is edited, or are you saying the first batch of A&Es were uncensored, and that they went back and cut it out later? As far as I know, you have to go outside of Region 1 to get that sketch unedited, unless you want to go back to the older VHS tapes.

I have the first A&E DVD releases, when they were releasing them in 2-DVD sets, and that sketch is edited there also.

 

[Sa5150]

Has anyone bought any of the Sony box sets from Europe . Are these indeed remastered and uncut . There 3 different covers uk, Italy and Germany . Not sure which is the best to buy ?

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Has anyone bought any of the Sony box sets from Europe . Are these indeed remastered and uncut . There 3 different covers uk, Italy and Germany . Not sure which is the best to buy ?

I have the UK set. It is unedited*, but is not remastered.

*-well, as unedited as possible. There were a couple of episodes that had edits made to the master tapes themselves back in the '70s at the BBC (after their original uncut transmissions) which have been edited ever since. This is episode 19 (in the cartoon "The Price and the Black Spot", the word cancer was substituted with the word gangrene (this appears uncut in the film And Now For Something Completely DIfferent). Also, episode 24, there's missing "Satan/telephone poles animation" and in episode 38, the "Choreographed Party Political Broadcast" sketch.

Also, since the 1990s, I'm pretty sure there's at least one edit for music rights/royalties reasons, where Graham Chapman stands up in a cinema and starts singing an adulterated version of "Tonight" from West Side Story. This was uncut on the 1980s-era VHS tapes, but when music copyright laws changed years later, this bit keeps getting cut out.

The US and Spanish sets contain additional edits, notably in the "Summarise Proust" sketch (the word "masturbation" being silenced, totally ruining the joke)

In addition, there is one episode of series 4 ("the Light Entertainment War") that exists in two versions: the original TV version, and an unaired, extended version. I'm pretty sure the version of that episode on the UK set is the original transmitted version. I don't know which version is on the US set.

So, the UK set is the most complete one.