Lessons learned on DVD, What they should NOT do on Blueray & HD-DVD?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Norm, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. Adam Tyner

    Adam Tyner Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not sure what you nean by the "get a clue" jab, but 4x3 HD sets automatically lock into a 16x9 mode when fed HD material. They don't actually crop HD content to 4x3 unless the user digs through a menu to do so.
     
  2. Rutgar

    Rutgar Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    0


    I'm just trying to nip any argument in the bud from 4:3 set owners who might protest against HD-DVD/Blu-Ray being 16x9 native. The "clue" part comes in, in that 16x9 is de facto the new standard TV AR.
     
  3. Adam Tyner

    Adam Tyner Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    0
    It doesn't matter, though -- virtually all of these TVs automatically lock into a 16x9 mode when fed an HD signal. It would require extra steps on the user's part to see anything but a 16x9 image. You're arguing against a stance that no one's taking.

    I don't think 4x3 HDTVs are useless for viewers who watch a fair amount of 4x3 material, although this is really only an issue with smaller CRTs. A 36" 4x3 HDTV displays widescreen content at 33" and 4x3 content at 36" -- a 34" 16x9 HDTV displays widescreen content at 34" has closer to a 25" 4x3 area (hopefully I'm not completely botching the math). With a 4x3 HDTV, you can display 16x9 material at close to the same size as the closest 16x9 equivalent, but your 4x3 area is considerably larger. How is choosing that clueless?
     
  4. Lars Vermundsberget

    Lars Vermundsberget Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2000
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    0


    I would suggest a really easy-to-use zoom function for "those people" who just need to have their screens filled.
     
  5. Will_B

    Will_B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Messages:
    4,731
    Likes Received:
    1
    I do not want to see that well known on-screen disclaimer written by lawyers for lawyers - the one that says "The views and opinions on the commentary track are the views and opinions of the people making the comments, and are not neccesarily the views and opinions of other people who aren't making the comments who aren't on the commentary."

    I also do not want to see a screen telling me the rating of the film and why that rating was passed - it spoils parts of the film.

    And I agree with everyone else that users should ALWAYS be able to fast forward and press skip.
     
  6. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 1999
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    0
    That was from the other thread making HD HDMI only, the original article -
    __________________________________________________ __________
    The HD-DVD disk will come in 3 sizes when first launched. There will be 15Gb / 30Gb / 45Gb disks (single / dual / triple layer) and there will also be a fourth variety which will have a SD-DVD version on the reverse side of the disk, allowing retailers to have a single version of new films on the shelves and allow consumers to build a library before they have the equipment.
    __________________________________________________ __________
    As I envision it, if the 2 format wars takes hold, the racks would look just like they do today - unless some/all studios decide to release film in both HD & BR. That would be a mess, but I can see the BR disks having 'extra' extras (that won't fit on an HD) just to pull more customers over.

    Maybe they meant the hardware. I am so glad that I am not a salesman - trying to explain why this player won't play that player's disks.

    Again, this is the bottom line. If Best Buy, Circuit City, and the rest don't order any HD players and disks. they'll kill it.

    That would be cool.

    Glenn
     
  7. RandallV

    RandallV Second Unit

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Things they *should* do:

    Original Aspect Ratio on *every* release

    5.1 and DTS as options on all contemporary films

    No more forced trailers, commercials...

    Booklet chapter inserts for *every* release

    No edge enhancement, digital artifacts...

    Use original theater poster artwork for the packaging

    Use plastic for the discs that is scratch resistant

    Slim case packaging

    Wow, it's going to take a lot to get me interested in HD.
     
  8. Thomas Newton

    Thomas Newton Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 1999
    Messages:
    1,509
    Likes Received:
    27
    No MAR-only releases

    No forced trailers or other forced commercials

    No region code lockouts

    No control lockouts, EVER. (An allowable exception: If you press the Eject button while the disc is still spinning, the player may spin it down before honoring the button press. [​IMG])

    No FBI / Interpol "warnings", except maybe after all of the content plays. These are little more than unnecessary FUD. It is the copyright notice that actually ties in to legal protection.

    No DIVX-style link to the phone line or the Internet
     
  9. Marko Berg

    Marko Berg Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    0
    If HDMI is to be put up with and the only way to enjoy HD, I suggest making the most of the digital connection and using it for bi-directional equipment set-up data sending and processing.

    Ideally, there should be a plug & play like interoperability that would allow HDMI devices to communicate with one another. For instance, an HDTV detects a new HD player and tells the player its screen format (4:3 or 16:9), native resolution (if it's a fixed pixel display) or the best available resolution (such as 1080p), and the HD player adjusts video output settings accordingly in order to obtain best quality.

    Similarly, the HD player queries a receiver when connected via HDMI, and automatically adjusts audio settings based on the decoding capabilities of the receiver, the speaker configuration and bass management settings the user has previously input in the receiver etc. Naturally, the user can override any settings or choose to ignore this automatic setup. The player asks the user whether to detect devices and configure settings automatically when the player is switched on for the first time.

    Audio and video switching must be made easy and completely transparent. If only an HD player player is currently switched on in the chain and a disc is being played, the receiver automatically outputs sound from that device and routes the picture to the TV. There is no need to touch the receiver's remote to choose the incoming signal as the HDMI inputs are monitored for signals and if only one signal is detected, then that signal is automatically processed.

    If another HDMI device that wants to output video to the TV is turned on, the TV's OSD asks you to choose the signal you want to watch, clearly identifying the devices currently sending a signal as a Blu-ray player or an HD DVD player.

    This happens if no preferred order has been set up. If a preferred order exists, you can for instance tell the receiver to override your FM radio listening (yuck!) and start sending the the video and audio from the HDTV's tuner when a show you selected earlier in the EPG starts. In other words, you are listening to radio in the background, but when the latest episode of Simple Life or other favourite TV series starts, your TV wakes up automatically and the receiver starts outputting the TV audio, automatically choosing the HDMI input the TV is connected to.

    Naturally, you should be able to configure this behaviour by manually setting up a preferred order for all connected devices in both the TV and the receiver. A network of HDMI devices should communicate with each other and you would be able to establish signal processing priorities in any manner you choose. If a device in the chain is turned off, other devices remaining in the HDMI network will continue to operate according to the rules you've set up.

    For instance, if an HD player is directly connected to the TV in addition to the receiver, the TV continues to play video and audio from the HD player without any interruption when the receiver is shut off. When you turn on the receiver again, its existence is recognized and the HD player's audio is now routed to the receiver and your TV becomes mute, if this is how you have decided to set up the system.

    Controlling preference settings should be easy as all devices output a signal identifying them in the network, therefore the OSD of the TV or the receiver will always show what type of devices you have connected (receiver, TV, HD player etc.) and display the make and model as well.

    Finally, you can turn all of this off and just set up your components manually as you currently do. [​IMG]
     
  10. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    0


    Sorry, but region coding is here to stay.

    Face it, if a film is coming out on DVD here it may very well be released theatrically oerseas. Conversely, films like "Shaolin Soccer" were coming out theatrically here when the DVD was already available in Asia. Why go see a film in the theater when you can watch an import version now? I fully understand the studio position on this one.
     
  11. Marko Berg

    Marko Berg Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Consumers unanimously hate region coding. There's a simple solution, however: Release the freakin' films simultaneously in all markets. If they can do this with the Star Wars films and the remake of the War of the Worlds, they can do it for every major film.

    I realize doing this for smaller and independent films could be a problem for distributors with limited resources, but such films are not guaranteed to appear theatrically in all markets anyway, and I believe it was major Hollywood studios only that insisted on DVD region coding in the first place.

    Region coding totally denies many people the opportunity to watch some great films that are never released in their home markets either theatrically or on home video. How does this make more business?
     
  12. MarkHastings

    MarkHastings Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    12,013
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm not sure if he meant this, but it sounds (to me) like his fear is that there wouldn't be as much crying about the "black bars" if most people owned 16x9 tv's.

    In other words, it's the 4x3 tv's that are the reason for P&S, open matte, and non-anamorphic transfers. If everyone owned a 16x9 tv, then we wouldn't have things like "Star Wars" Fullframe DVD's.
     
  13. Jeff Ulmer

    Jeff Ulmer Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 1998
    Messages:
    5,584
    Likes Received:
    0
    Region coding on new films is one thing, but what about 30-40 year old catalogue?
     
  14. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 1999
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    NO double sided discs!
     
  15. Alex Spindler

    Alex Spindler Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personally, I think DVDs have hit the sweet spot as far as packaging dimensions go.

    Early on in DVD, I was a really strident fan of CD-Jewel Cases. I thought it was a perfect shape to handle what was essentially the same platform. But what DVD packages provide that jewel cases do not are poster dimensions. When I got a feel for seeing a theatrical poster on the DVD release, I realized how well it works. There is, undoubtedly, empty unused space, but it's a natural fit and I don't think can be substantially improved upon without diminishing the positive attributes of using poster art.

    As for my preferences:
    1) Please use the original poster art, or make it available on a reversible sleeve.
    DVD release art is rarely an improvement unless it's a statement ala Criterion covers. If you did it in photoshop in a couple of days, it's not a good idea. If your idea is that the poster art doesn't have enough giant actor face, use the recent scheme of a disposable outer cardboard sleeve, which can have a gigantic Harrison Ford head on it with big bold letters exclaiming the the number of Oscar nominations and how Ebert thinks it's the second coming of 2001. But leave us the theatrical poster art underneath, without blurbs.

    2) Please include the theatrical trailers, and all of them
    If you're going to secure music for a trailer, get the rights to include that music in the DVD trailers too. I really, really, really want the trailers for every film I own, as it is enormously fascinating to me to watch them after the film has concluded.

    3) I don't mind motion menus, but one tap of the 'Next Chapter' button should flag it to low-tech 'single page' mode. So if you're impatiently wanting to see the next page of the Star Wars disc, press Next once and every screen just pops right up

    4) Stop putting spoilers in the menu
    I understand the iconic value of some images from movies, but resist the temptation and do not include shots or screens that don't occur in the first five minutes

    5) Stop bundling player software with your discs
    I understand that early on nobody had a good grasp on how to get your DVD on our computer screens, but we've figured it out now. Don't bother putting InterActual on the discs anymore.

    6) Come up with a nice logo
    In my perfect world, an HD-DVD will have a nice holographic 'HD' on the spine and discretely on the cover next to the title so that there will be little confusion. Please don't windowbox the poster art ala Superbit covers unless its a disposable cover.

    7) Include zoom functions on all hardware and don't zoom it for us
    While I don't think its unreasonable to ask that all new special features be 16:9 now, there will be lots of archive material that is not. Please don't zoom it for us. If we want to watch it windowboxed/letterboxed/low rez, please let us. Give us a 'Zoom' button that will cycle between 4:3 with sides and zoomed full and for 2.35 material letterboxes and zoomed in full screen. I don't begrudge the world for not wanting black boxes, but don't make it a choice between which of us you want to make mad.

    8) Please include passive input/output interfaces ala VHS
    This may take some explaining, but my thinking on it is pretty sound. It can be very difficult to get a spare interface on your television or receiver. Lots of people have a cable input and video game system and finding a new HD input for HDDVD. VHS fit right in because it could sit between our cable and television. Even if HDDVD isn't able to record, give us a hand and let it pass signals when its powered off and save us a slot on our receiver. Right now I couldn't add another HD source if I tried.

    9) Please don't frustrate us with the controls
    If we'd like to switch our audio between DTS and commentary while watching, please let us. I promise our receivers won't ignite the oxygen in the atmosphere extinguishing all life as we know it. I understand that legal warnings are needed because we as a society have made a world where they have to be there, but let those of us who watch your movie a lot (as we bought a copy) have a single 'Next Chapter' from getting to the movie. I don't expect forced trailers to go away, but don't give each one a new chapter. One 'Next' and we should be at the menu. And please, please, let us key in a chapter number and go right to it. If I press the 1 then 4 key, take me right to that demo scene that I know and love so well. Please don't make me menu->scene select->next page->right twice, down once->enter or press 'Next chapter' 13 times.


    Things I'd love to see more of, special features-wise:
    1) Trivia tracks - I love them and I'm sure someone wouldn't mind jotting down some notes
    2) Soundtrack listings - a raw list of all songs used in the film from an 'Information' menu would be great
    3) Relevant trailers - This is both self serving and fun. If you've just released a Michael Bay movie, why not include trailers for the other movies you've made with him? It's promotion for you and fun for us to see other things under your umbrella that our director/actor have worked on.
    4) Archived Offical Site - Official Sites can include some really fun stuff (like the Dawn of the Dead remake's little flash game). Give us a copy of all the stuff that was on there for our PCs in case you eventually forget about it and let it die
     
  16. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 1999
    Messages:
    4,287
    Likes Received:
    200
    NO MULTIPLE RELEASES OF THE SAME TITLE! Every disc should ALWAYS include the theatrical version (as long as movies continue to be released in theaters, at least) and if they decide to do an "Extreme Unrated Extended Director's Cut" include that on the SAME disc. Likewise, no separate "Family Edited" versions either, and for god's sakes no separate cropped versions!

    Start every disc with the MOVIE, and go into STOP mode at the end. I'm sick of how they make the act of watching a movie more like playing a video game. And if I had a nickel for every time I've seen a DVD menu burned into a store-display TV....

    Everything should be TRUE HD transfers. If you can't do that, then don't release it and keep the standard DVD or laserdisc in print instead. Especially no releases transferred directly from VHS tape, like many public-domain titles!

    If Wal-Mart or Blockbuster make any "demands" regarding how anything is released, tell them to fuck off! [​IMG]
     
  17. Iain Quinn

    Iain Quinn Agent

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you must do a remix of a mono/stereo source, at least have the original audio as an option.
     
  18. MarkHastings

    MarkHastings Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    12,013
    Likes Received:
    1
    Or do what CD did and inform you of the process with the code letters ("AAD" for example)
     
  19. Marko Berg

    Marko Berg Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    0


    A very good point. Yesterday, I watched Shane (1953) on a DVD that was region coded. Nobody can say this was done to protect revenue from the film's theatrical release!

    Region coding really has to go, it's just an artifical marketing restriction that should be forbidden by the WTO.
     
  20. Paul McElligott

    Paul McElligott Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    Real Name:
    Paul McElligott
    If you must have regions at least attempt include the same extras for all regions.
     

Share This Page