Lady and the Tramp OAR (1 Viewer)

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Quote: "Mulan and Black Cauldron never had a laserdisc release - at least not in the US..."

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Exactly. I've got both of them on LD - in French.

 

[Tim Glover]

Thanks DaVid. It certainly would be nice to have both versions on the dvd. I believe Disney will accomodate us

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Hmmm. Flippant, but also misleading and inaccurate in the context of the entire question. The last release of Lady & the Tramp on laserdisc was available in both 2.35:1 (separate CLV and CAV SE editions) and the recomposed 4:3 (CLV only) aspect ratios. The DVD was a rehash of neither in at least one respect. The 5.1 track on the DVD corrected a handful of errors on the audio remix of the laserdiscs including bits of missing dialog and music.

The laserdisc "master" is in reference to the D1 which represents the video image. The 4x3 lbxed DVDs mentioned did indeed make use of the existing D1 masters which were the source for the laserdiscs that were produced or had been prepared in expectation of the LD format and were mastered accordingly (4x3 lbx with lots of filtering and noise that would be masked by the LD format's limitations).

The fact that Disney *also* had a 1.33:1 D1 (intended for laserdisc) master of Lady and the Tramp that they refused to offer on DVD just makes the whole thing even more ironic.

Many titles that show up on DVD that used recycled laserdisc masters often have new (5.1 DD) audio masters prepared so this is not unusual.

 

[James Reader]

Lady and the Tramp was released in the UK as a 'Limited Edition' before Disney's Platinum release schedule was announced.

I've only seen it once, but from the looks of it, it was the 'scope version pan and scanned.

I could be wrong.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

David,
Please Re-read my post with both quotes. I am not denying that anything Jeff posted was accurate, I am just saying that in the context of the post he was responding to, a terse partial answer is misleading in that one could infer from it that the only laserdisc master was 2.35:1 and that the audio and video were both "rehashed". In fact, there were two laserdisc masters, one of which was 4:3 and was not released, rehashed or otherwise, on a DVD. This was a sigificant part of Brian's post. The audio was also obviously not a rehash.

I considered these to be points worth clarifying.

Regards,

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Got it Ken.

 

[Rob Ray]

Given that the studio was producing the cinemascope version as their "definitive" statement and the 1.33:1 version only as a "backup" for theaters that couldn't project the widescreen...it's fair to say that from Walt Disney's team of artists point of view that the WS version "better serves" their vision for the film. Don't get me wrong...I feel very strongly that the 1.33:1 version should get all the credit it deserves and be preserved on an SE DVD for generations to enjoy.

Maybe and maybe not. I'll bet CinemaScope was foisted on the animators by the marketing department. Stanley Donen has gone on record as saying he much prefers the non-anamorphic version of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers because he found framing for that early wide CinemaScope very cumbersome. The non-anamorphic Seven Brides is certainly more fluid in its camera movements.

But back to Lady and the Tramp -- I did a cursory comparison of the two versions when they came out. Most shots in the 1.33:1 version look panned from CinemaScope. However, several shots had the animated overlays repositioned so that the action was more centered. For example, Tramp's introductory scene had lots more vacant space between the characters in selected shots in the CinemaScope version.

Obviously, both versions should be available on DVD for the same reason that both versions of Oklahoma!, Seven Brides and Brigadoon should be available: they are different films.

 

[Patrick McCart]

The current DVD of Oklahoma! has both, although...not 16x9.

The flat versions (non-anamorphic) of Brigadoon and Seven Brides were produced in hard-matted 2:1 (or around that).

A few of the CinemaScope cartoons made by MGM were produced in both formats such as Dixieland Droopy.

 

[Peter Kline]

The current DVD of Oklahoma! has both, although...not 16x9.

Both of what? My copy has the Todd AO Version and doesn't include the Cinemascope one.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Obviously, both versions should be available on DVD for the same reason that both versions of Oklahoma!, Seven Brides and Brigadoon should be available: they are different films.

We certainly agree there!

 

[DeeF]

Oklahoma! is the one of these that has 2 different WIDESCREEN versions; the others are widescreen and 4:3.

I want both versions of this movie on a disk -- they both use the same music tracks -- and I want the possibility of watching the musical numbers *simultaneously*, to see how they are different. AMC showed a comparison some years ago, and the documentary The Sound of Movies shows a very brief comparison of the song, "The Surrey with the Fringe On Top." Although it's pretty clear that the Todd-AO is superior for color and clarity, many people, including R&H, preferred the Cinemascope version of the performances, and this version has more angles, more setups, making it a little more cinematic.

Donen, Kelly, Minnelli, and others were initially quite dismayed about the widescreen, because it made the coherence of dance very difficult. It really wasn't until West Side Story, circa 1960, that dance was used effectively on the widescreen (filling up the width without cutting out people's feet).

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Would love both versions of Oaklahoma...but I don't want mutiple-angles to accomplish it (what you'd need to toggle between the two simulaneously while watching) as that would cut your max bit-rate in half and hurt overall PQ (just look closely at Disney's Beauty and the Beast on a large-display and you'll see what happens...MPEG galore!).

-dave

 

[Peter Kline]

DeeF,

The Todd AO version has some color problems (i.e: Julie's blue gingham dress seems more grey in Todd AO and there's distortion with a wide angle lens used ( a distinct flare bubble visable from time to time). I think you've mentioned that R&H preferred the Cinemascope version before, but the actors and most critics felt the opposite. Any way, it would be nice to have both on one disc.

DaVid,

Mutiple angles would be difficult as the color values are different in the films. Todd AO has Eastman color and Cinemascope has Technicolor with each having a slightly different palette. There are some slight dialogue differences between the two films as well, including leads into the songs.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I'd like both on *2* discs in the same package. A nice 2-disc SE giving dual-layer treatment and good compression to both versions...

DTS audio would be a nice touch too...