HTF REVIEW: "Moulin Rouge" (HTF pick for BEST DVD 2001) (1 Viewer)

[Jeremy Anderson]

I finally got to watch this tonight, and while I enjoyed it, I think the direction is a bit heavy-handed. And while I can understand the use of a lot of jump cuts in the upbeat numbers, they were also heavily used during the more mellow songs, and I think that really pulled me out of the movie. During Come What May, I found myself thinking "Jesus, why can't he just linger for a minute?" It was, however, a very unique and interesting movie... that I'll likely never watch again.

The worst part about that is that I think I got a bad disc (but I'll inquire about that in another thread). So now I guess I'll have to brave the X-mas shopping crowds to exchange a disc for a movie I'll probably sell to someone anyway. BLECH!

 

[Ruben Zamora]

The music was really great and sounded great coming out of my reciever .
The movie was draggy in the beginning. The middle to end really got me interested. The pure ENDING was enough to draw me into this movie. I however didnt like the Teen Spirit transition and I didnt like all the modern songs. Some did well, others didnt. For instance, the LIke a Virgin was cheap, and Roxanne was sort of cheap, but picked up at points.

 

[Matt Butler]

I bought this sight unseen which I ususally dont do; but after the ravings of Ron and a close buudy of mine as well as getting a taste of it at the Sept LA meet at FOX; I couldnt resist.

Let me say that it is an incredible movie. I loved it! This is a assalut on the senses and not to mention the music is great! I havent seen a movie like this in a long time.

BTW I didnt notice anything wrong with the DTS track.

 

[Thomas T]

I liked Moulin Rouge but I am not oblivious to it's glaring flaws.
I think Luhrmann took the easy way out when he opted for familiar pop songs as opposed to an original score. Curious that many are actually praising him as if this were some kind of artistic accomplishment. By it's very nature, this choice cannot help but pull you out of the picture rather than pull you into it. When a familiar lyric pops up I'm trying to guess what song it's from rather than just going with the film.
Luhrmann's MTV style frenetic cutting and editing is far from innovating and truth be told, it's old news. Almost any music video on MTV or VH1 is done in this style and so called contemporary musicals from Footloose to Dancer In The Dark have adopted this music video style and Bob Fosse in Sweet Charity experimented with it in that 1969 film.
Watching the extended dance sequences and rehearsal footage on disc 2, Luhrmann also does a major disservice to his choreographer John O' Connell and his dancers. The choreography is quite good and the dancers excellent but you'd never know it from the finished product. The lightning edits are so quick you never get a chance to appreciate O' Connell's work.
In the old days, the camera would be stationary while Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly or Cyd Charisse did their stuff. It was the real thing, no jump cuts and we could appreciate their art. Today, the camera and editing do the "dancing" for us.
I suspect that Moulin Rouge is a great movie for those who don't like musicals. For those of us who love musicals, it remains a promise unfulfilled.
On the plus side, I thought Nicole Kidman, Ewan McGregor and Jim Broadbent did exemplary work but ..... oh that Richard Roxburgh. Terrible performance and that "Like A Virgin" number must rank as one of the worst musical numbers since ... well, I can't think of one.

 

[Mark Bendiksen]

...and that "Like A Virgin" number must rank as one of the worst musical numbers...

Yeah, I didn't care too much for that one either. However, there were so many other songs that WERE amazing, IMHO. "Roxanne", for instance, was sublime.
Although I also found fault with certain aspects of Moulin Rouge, I must say you'll have to put me into the "love it" category.
Link Removed

 

[Sean Laughter]

In the old days, the camera would be stationary while Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly or Cyd Charisse did their stuff. It was the real thing, no jump cuts and we could appreciate their art. Today, the camera and editing do the "dancing" for us.

I suspect that Moulin Rouge is a great movie for those who don't like musicals. For those of us who love musicals, it remains a promise unfulfilled.

This is the main criticism against this film that I just don't get. Of course the camera and editing do the dancing for you, this is a film, not a stage show. If you're looking for a stage show on film (or DVD) go buy one of Sondheim's shows that was taped or the Victor/Victoria stage show that is available on DVD as well.

They are two different mediums and I think people that like musicals (of which I am one) but think a film musical should stick to stage conventions (of which I am not one) are deluding themselves. People make reference to "the old days" as you do to just plopping the camera down and watching the dancers, but where is that exhibiting the art of film? It's not, I'd rather they take advantage of their medium than feel obligated to show us fancy footwork straight on with no cuts, no edits, no anything simply because the choreographers might feel slighted.

You mention Dancer in the Dark as well, and the choreographer does take issue to the director "not trusting" the dancing somewhere in the DVDs extras. I don't know about that particular film, but it seems he is missing the point of film which is not just to rely on the dancing. It's jut like in theater actually, if you took it the extreme any show that has dancing in it should therefore have no sets, no lighting, and no music . . . just the dancing with a metronome keeping time because, hell, that's the most important thing isn't it?

 

[Thomas T]

I'm both amused and perplexed by Sean Laughter's response.
We are talking film, not theatre, and your suggestion that if I want to see dance I should go to the theatre and not watch movies is absurd.
In movies like Singin' In The Rain, the camera doesn't do the dancing, Gene Kelly does. In Top Hat, the camera doesn't do the dancing, Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers do. In Saturday Night Fever and Grease, the camera doesn't do the dancing, John Travolta does. Dance can be used to express emotions and feelings felt by the characters. When Astaire and Rogers fell in love, they didn't tell us. They showed it to us in their dancing. The rage and pent up hostility of the gangs in West Side Story were expressed in their dancing. No amount of fancy editing could have done it better.
Dance on film enables us to appreciate the art of dance and the dancer. Your argument that dance belongs under the proscenium and not film is weak. Film enables us to see and appreciate the talents of Fred Astire, Gene Kelly and Mikhail Baryshnikov.
Those of us who love musicals, watch them to hear the songs and watch the dancing. There's alway MTV and VH1 for those who want to see the camera dancing.
By the way, have you ever seen a Sondheim musical? I'm just asking because you suggested that I see a tape of one of the Sondheim musicals if I want to see dancing. With the exception of Michael Bennett's choreography in Comapny, Sondheim does not use dance as an element in his production.

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

Maybe it's just me, but my complaint about the jump cuts is very specific: There were MANY moments throughout the film where the camera would be moving into what would be an amazing shot... and right before it reached that point, we'd cut to a different angle that wasn't nearly as interesting as that original shot would've been had they just continued moving the camera. I was concentrating so much on the horrible editing that it totally drew me out of both the movie and its music. The movie's only real salvation for me was COME WHAT MAY, which stands out like the proverbial turd in the punchbowl as far as the music and the editing. It's almost like that scene came from another movie and they spliced it in. I wish Luhrman had done the entire movie with that type of pacing.

Maybe MR was at a disadvantage with me though, because we screened Hedwig and The Angry Inch just before it, and MR really can't compare. HaTAI is more of my type of musical, where the songs are original and tailored specifically to that story. If I had to pick my favorite disc this year, Hedwig and The Angry Inch would be it.

 

[Steve Tannehill]

With the exception of Michael Bennett's choreography in Comapny, Sondheim does not use dance as an element in his production.

Technically, I consider West Side Story and Gypsy to be Sondheim musicals, although granted they are collaborations with other composers and choreographers...

On the topic at hand, my only difficulty with Moulin Rouge was the downbeat ending. The songs worked for me (although I was bracing myself for "Like a Virgin" to turn into something entirely worse...). And I do see slight DTS track lip-sync problems on the Panasonic RP91.

- Steve

 

[Thomas T]

Yes, Steve, West Side Story and Gypsy are "technically" Sondheim musicals but as you say, it was a collaborative venture with the likes of choreographer Jerome Robbins and Sondheim only did the lyrics, not the music. But this was early in his career and he did not have the clout and final say that he did from Company on. Dance is notably absent from Sweeney Todd, Sunday In The Park With George, Passion, Pacific Overtures, Follies,Into The Woods and Little Night Music although both Follies and Night Music have what I call "movement" as opposed to dance.
The downbeat ending in Moulin Rouge is telegraphed from the very beginning of the film so we already know what's coming so that didn't bother me.
I really don't mean to give the impression that I don't like Moulin Rouge, I do. However, we cannot pretend it's a perfect film. It's still possible to like a film and still see it's flaws.

 

[bryan_chow]

Ummm, I don't want to sound crude, but did anyone notice that 36 seconds into chapter 9 you can clearly see Nicole's nipple sticking out of her corset??

Bryan

 

[Sean Laughter]

I said if you want to see a stage show done like a stage show than maybe you should check out one of the Sondheim videos, I don't think I ever said to see them if you specifically wanted to see dancing. I'm well aware that dancing is not emphasized at all in Sondhiem's work (one need only witness the rather perplexing "skipping" the entire company does at the end of "Into the Woods" to realize that ). I was saying if you don't want a film musical, but instead want a stage musical, maybe you should check out some of the filmed broadway shows. That's all.
I will say this though. I've never been a fan of "classic" movie musicals. To me, they simply seem like stage shows awkwardly splashed onto the screen.

Those of us who love musicals, watch them to hear the songs and watch the dancing. There's alway MTV and VH1 for those who want to see the camera dancing.

But Moulin Rouge is a film musical with filmic responsibilities. I find it odd that after all the publicity this film got and everything that was known about it that someone would walk into it expecting a traditional musical.
I also find it rather disheartening that you think to like musicals you have to focus on the songs and the dancing. Broadway's recent trend of calling almost strictly dancing shows "musicals" lately annoys me and I don't feel I should apologize for thinking the music and acting are central to me in a musical more than the dancing. I'm not a dancer, though I have some friends that are, so maybe I just don't understand the "language" of dance all that well, but broadway dancing has always seemed a bit overdone to me, it bothers me in the same way some people are bothered by people in musicals "spontaneously bursting into song." Though it's not an exclusive thing, I rather enjoyed "Chicago"'s dancing and some of the other "fosse-esque" shows (and Cabaret is brilliance on film).

 

[Sean Conklin]

Ummm, I don't want to sound crude, but did anyone notice that 36 seconds into chapter 9 you can clearly see Nicole's nipple sticking out of her corset??

I didn't notice that, but will be on the lookout for it now

 

[Thomas T]

Sean (Laughter not Conklin), the arts feed on each other. The theatre has adapted many cinematic technques in recent stage productions. I see no benefit to restricting the arts to "pure" cinema vs. theatrical traditional. A film like Memento is dazzling and audacious in it's use of cinematic technique but ultimately that's all there is and ultimately is it more satisfying than more traditional storytelling like, say, House Of Mirth or You Can Count On Me? I say no.
The point I wanted to make, and I reiterate, is that Luhrmann did a disservice to O' Connell and the dancers by mutilating the choreography. The zip editing is perfect for MTV and VH1 videos when the editing disguises the fact that Britney Spears and 'N Sync simply are not dancers. It makes them look like much better dancers than they are. There was no need to disguise the dancing in Moulin Rouge.
I'm sorry that you're disheartened that I should feel musicals should focus on song and dance but that's the reason for musicals! It's sort of like complaining about horror films focusing on scares or comedies on laughs. We go to horror movies for the scares, comedies for the laughs and musicals for the song and dance.
Also, I'm glad you were honest enough to admit you were not a fan of classic film musicals. Now, I can see where you are coming from and I can see what it comes down to is your distaste for the traditional formal structure of the musical.

 

[Ruben Zamora]

hate to start another thread. Does anyone know the name of the song that plays during the ending credits.

 

[Michael Allred]

While I agree the DVD is yet another spectacular release from FOX, the movie left me both hot and cold.
Visually it's fantastic, no question however, the director left me feeling cold on the "love story" aspect....I just didn't believe they were in love with one another so I was unable to invest myself in their story.
but hey, they used a Queen song ("The Show Must Go On") so it scored a boatload of points with me on that regard.

 

[Brian Ralph]

I browsed most of this thread, but didn't see this question before. Is there a listing on the web or on the DVD of all the songs they used?

There were some that sounded familiar, but I couldn't place them and sometimes they only used a line or two before moving on.

 

[bill lopez]

As far as best dvd of the year goes, to me PHAMTOM MENACE dvd sound is better but MOULIN ROUGE packaging is better.

 

[Joel Mack]

Ummm, I don't want to sound crude, but did anyone notice that 36 seconds into chapter 9 you can clearly see Nicole's nipple sticking out of her corset??

I noticed it in the theater (and began counting down the days until I'd be able to freeze-frame it)...

 

[Mark Bendiksen]

I noticed it in the theater (and began counting down the days until I'd be able to freeze-frame it)...

Sorry to stray off topic, but do remember that you can get a much better, ahem, "view", of Nicole in Eyes Wide Shut.