Help with some questions about PANASONIC PLASMAs (1 Viewer)

[Rhino]

Howdy folks,
I'm new to this forum and tried to find a related thread; unfortunately if there's a way to 'focus' your interest or concern via search criteria I'm too inept to find it. Consequently I decided to start this question anew and I'm hoping someone can give me a hand with getting my HT FINISHED. Its been in the making now for months...enough already!
I've assembled McIntosh electronics and Von Schweikart speakers in a dedicated room along with several media sources of differing makes including Sat TV (no cable available out here), HDDVD, DVD, VCR and Music Server (MS300) and eventually I'll add a PSIII for BluRay. All is good except for one small problem; NO TV/display.
I purchased a Panasonic TCP65VT30 from AllTimeTV's last February. The TV arrived via Home Direct shippers (we live in Kerrville, TX so this 'specialty shipper' had to be used). Had I had any idea what was going to happen, I'd have tried to pick the TV up at a shipping dock in San Antonio (but that's speculative as to where the problem actually occurred.) It arrive with a cracked sub-panel. The front panel is flawless and you can't see the cracks in the glass below that front panel until light hits the cracks at just the right angle causing the light to refract and appear as a 'ribbon'. All four corners have these cracks, a few extending several feet.
Anyhow; after chasing this cat for months, neither the seller or the shipper will stand behind it; legal advise is I'm pissin' up an expensive rope to try and sue them and Consumer Electronics in San Antone says it will cost more to repair it than to buy a new one. I've given up...in all it's sparkling new glory, it's headed to the dump.
When I started looking for a TV/display I was most interested in a 65" Pioneer Kuro. Those were a bit (lot) out of my price range and when I finally got around to putting money on the deal, they stopped making them. I don't want used unless it's in town and I know the owner. I later discovered that Pioneer bought the tech rights to the Kuro engineering and used the architecture in the VT series. I settled on the Panny 65VT30 on recommendation of a local 'expert' who said it was the best plasma on the market.
As I've begun to look over a replacement machine, I discovered that the VT30 series has been replaced by the VT50 line. I am hoping some of your true HT aficionados can tell me; 1) are the 50's of equal performance or simply excuses to introduce 'change' at 'new' (read higher) prices and, 2) are the GT's as good as the VT's?
As a point of information: I am not really interested in 3D and I'm not a 'gamer'...at all; no Wii, no PS toys. I just want beautiful movies and great sound.
Thanks in advance if you can lend me a thought or two....
Rhino

 

[Robert Crawford]

Welcome to the HTF. I'm very sorry to read about your misfortune on your TCP65VT30. As an owner of both, a TCP50GT30 and a TCP65VT50, I think you will get more bang for your buck with the TCP65GT50, especially after the cash you spent on that broken display. The VT model has more settings and certifications from THX, but I think you'll be perfectly happy with the GT model.







Crawdaddy

 

[schan1269]

Unfortunately that is the "peril" of buying a TV online. 1 in 500 deliveries, the consumer is going to get screwed. You sir, are that 1.
Once you "sign" for a TV...it is yours. I worked in the wholesale end for 9 years. One of our clients was Amazon, another was ABT. There were others...but those were the two sources responsible for 80% of the internet traffic.
I can't count on both hands and feet combined how many times a month I had to deal with trucking companies about it "was smashed on the way" and we are trying to say "it was smashed before we picked it up on your dock".

 

[Sam Posten]

Same thing happened to me, it sucks, fortunately my vendor wasnt as shady. Hope you don't have to eat it!

 

[schan1269]

Our company ended up signing an agreement with 3 vendors and a "few"(cause they varied...) trucking companies...that once a "damage" was brought in house(meaning not the customers fault) then we/seller/trucking company ate it three ways.

 

[Rhino]

A general reply to y'all...first of all, thank you very much for taking the time to respond...I appreciate your making the effort.
In answer to Sam Posten: yes...I'm going to eat it. As I said; it's headed to the dump. Which is really sad because there are a lot of brand new electronics in that assembly. I, of course, can do absolutely nothing with them except, perhaps, an amateurish attempt at some sort of 'modern art'! LOL! Anyhow, I've come to the realization there will be no financial recovery for me Sam. Sorry to hear that you took the pipe on a deal too. Makes on bitter at 'the system'.
We never even got to the finger-pointing Sam Chandler describes...lip service from ATT's is all I got. And after receiving notice of a denied claim from Home Direct shipping, as soon as I ask for the name of their legal delivery agent, they would no longer talk to me at all other than to say, 'speak with our attorney'. Interestingly, they wouldn't even tell me who their attorney is! Hard to look 'em in the eye when they're in Illinois and your in Texas.
Anyhow...I really didn't post my question to lament this loss fellas; everyone has a sad story. What I'm most concerned about now it replacing the TV with an OPERATING ONE. It seems that the TCP65VT30 is no longer a 'current' marking item and I do not know enough about the VT50-series (or plasma displays in general) to know if it's the same, better, or not so good as the VT30's.
I appreciate Crawdaddy's comments, but I want a 65" for certain...I'd consider slightly larger, but not smaller. The rationale for the VT30 series to begin with is that it was supposed to be as close to the Kuro technology as available today. Is the 50VT-series as good?
I understand there are a lot more custom tuning features on the VT series vs. the GT series, but perhaps I wouldn't be able to take advantage of them anyway. When I originally set out to purchase the unit, I was supposed to have an A/V expert 'dial it in' for me so it would suit the room and our tastes. I no longer have access to that expertise.
Also, Crawdaddy, while I'm damn sure not interested in throwing any more money away, I'm not nearly so concerned about 'bang for buck' as I am in getting this HT together RIGHT the FIRST time! If a little more money needs to go up front...I'm willing to do that within reason. But somehow, when the expert suggested that model TV, he was adamant that it was the one I needed...and since he was not the vender and really didn't have a horse in the race, so-to-speak...it lent a great deal of credibility to his suggestions.
Any thoughts, fellas?
Thanks again for your time....
Rhino

 

[schan1269]

There is one remedy. Before you scrap it...if you used a warranty doubling credit card...many of them cover accidental damage. This would surely fit the description.
Otherwise...the VT50 is just as good as the VT30. It is essentially just the next model year. The VT50 will be replaced in February/March...

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Rhino /t/326022/help-with-some-questions-about-panasonic-plasmas#post_4014032
A general reply to y'all...first of all, thank you very much for taking the time to respond...I appreciate your making the effort.
In answer to Sam Posten: yes...I'm going to eat it. As I said; it's headed to the dump. Which is really sad because there are a lot of brand new electronics in that assembly. I, of course, can do absolutely nothing with them except, perhaps, an amateurish attempt at some sort of 'modern art'! LOL! Anyhow, I've come to the realization there will be no financial recovery for me Sam. Sorry to hear that you took the pipe on a deal too. Makes on bitter at 'the system'.
We never even got to the finger-pointing Sam Chandler describes...lip service from ATT's is all I got. And after receiving notice of a denied claim from Home Direct shipping, as soon as I ask for the name of their legal delivery agent, they would no longer talk to me at all other than to say, 'speak with our attorney'. Interestingly, they wouldn't even tell me who their attorney is! Hard to look 'em in the eye when they're in Illinois and your in Texas.
Anyhow...I really didn't post my question to lament this loss fellas; everyone has a sad story. What I'm most concerned about now it replacing the TV with an OPERATING ONE. It seems that the TCP65VT30 is no longer a 'current' marking item and I do not know enough about the VT50-series (or plasma displays in general) to know if it's the same, better, or not so good as the VT30's.
I appreciate Crawdaddy's comments, but I want a 65" for certain...I'd consider slightly larger, but not smaller. The rationale for the VT30 series to begin with is that it was supposed to be as close to the Kuro technology as available today. Is the 50VT-series as good?
I understand there are a lot more custom tuning features on the VT series vs. the GT series, but perhaps I wouldn't be able to take advantage of them anyway. When I originally set out to purchase the unit, I was supposed to have an A/V expert 'dial it in' for me so it would suit the room and our tastes. I no longer have access to that expertise.
Also, Crawdaddy, while I'm damn sure not interested in throwing any more money away, I'm not nearly so concerned about 'bang for buck' as I am in getting this HT together RIGHT the FIRST time! If a little more money needs to go up front...I'm willing to do that within reason. But somehow, when the expert suggested that model TV, he was adamant that it was the one I needed...and since he was not the vender and really didn't have a horse in the race, so-to-speak...it lent a great deal of credibility to his suggestions.
Any thoughts, fellas?
Thanks again for your time....
Rhino

I never suggested you shouldn't buy the 65" display. My 50" GT30 display is in my bedroom HT while my 65" VT50 is in my main HT. If your heart is set on it and financials isn't a concern then I would go with the 65VT50 as I consider it the finest picture from a display I viewed this year before I bought mine last month. Great choice, I hope you enjoy yours as much as I'm enjoying mine.





Crawdaddy

 

[Stan]

Totally new to plasma TVs, but I'm shopping for a new HDTV, probably to be purchased next month.
Not quite how to word this, but I always thought plasma TVs were kind of the "I want to be great, popular HDTVs but just can't make it".
Terrible way to word it, but for example I just checked Costco's website and 40+ LCD/LED TVs for sale, not one plasma listed.
Is there something inherently wrong with them? Maybe they don't last as long, need more service and tweaking to set up? I'm just speculating, but don't find a lot of plasmas for sale, even at, please forgive me, "Walmart".
Are they like the Betamax of early video tape recorders?

 

[schan1269]

LCD sell as TV because the manufacturers make more money producing them...
And by misinformation. LCD is not, and never will be, superior to plasma.
The only two specs that LCD win are...
1. Overall weight.
2. Electrical use.
They lose every single other specification.
1. Contrast...not even close.
2. Viewing angle...not even close.
3. Processing speed(ie gaming)...not even close.

 

[GeorgeAB]

Totally new to plasma TVs, but I'm shopping for a new HDTV, probably to be purchased next month.
Not quite how to word this, but I always thought plasma TVs were kind of the "I want to be great, popular HDTVs but just can't make it".
Terrible way to word it, but for example I just checked Costco's website and 40+ LCD/LED TVs for sale, not one plasma listed.
Is there something inherently wrong with them? Maybe they don't last as long, need more service and tweaking to set up? I'm just speculating, but don't find a lot of plasmas for sale, even at, please forgive me, "Walmart".
Are they like the Betamax of early video tape recorders?

The masses are moved by marketing, not genuine quality. Popularity and quality are not mutually inclusive terms. H.L. Mencken observed almost a century ago: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

 

[schan1269]

The masses are moved by marketing, not genuine quality. Popularity and quality are not mutually inclusive terms. H.L. Mencken observed almost a century ago: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

Absolutely true...
People wonder why plasma a couple years ago started stating "we have 600hz subfield"...
The reason they did that was to compete with "Hey that LCD over there has 240hz"...
The joke is in on the uninformed public. LCD "refresh rate" isn't even the stat you even need to be concerned with...
And "refresh rate" has nothing to do with the plasma subfield. It is like comparing asparagus to wool.
Samstung creating the "CMR stat"...is even more laughable. What are they up to now with CMR? 980 I think it is. Pure and utter crap.
People want to see a number on their sets cause of 24FPS, 60hz...LCD sucks at 60hz...lets create 120, still not good enough. 240?
PDP manufacturers get tired of the droves of the misinformed buying LCD so they slap 600hz on their TV as retaliation. Granted original sub field was 480...but 480/600 still has NOTHING to do with 24fps or 60hz.
But, all "average Joe" cares about is attaching some number to their purchase.

 

[Stan]

Thanks for the information guys.
I'm obviously a plasma tv "rube" who has fallen for the information presented to the "masses of uninformed people".
When it comes purchase time in a month or two, I'll be checking back here and asking more questions from the people on this thread, who know much more than I do about this subject. This will be a pretty major purchase for me and I want to do it right.
Thanks again.

 

[Rhino]

Crawdaddy and Schan...thank you fellas. Appreciate your comments.
Crawdaddy: my error on interpretation of your first reply to me...I confused 'size' with what I believe you were expressing; VT vs GT series and their related costs. Sorry.
Which brings me to another question; is the VT50 series actually WORTH the extra expense over the GT50 series? They must have changed something to launch marketing of the '50' series over the 30's; and I'm certainly not qualified to know...or probably understand...what. As I mentioned earlier; I've been led to believe the Panny VT30 (and now, I assume VT50) series is as close as one can get to the Kuro technology in a new display. Also as I mentioned: I'm not opposed to buying a used machine IF I know the seller and it's within local pickup option. That ain't gon'a happen soon I don't imagine!
But another angle exists: I don't have a CLUE how to 'calibrate' a display...and even if I did, I have no interest in changing settings based on day or night viewing. The room I have set aside for the HT is by-and-large dark with exception of late summer afternoon when the sun can get to the only (single, double hung with Levelour (sp?) slat window-treatment) window in the room. And in that same vein, I wonder if I would even be able to use the tailoring controls of the 50VT series machines. I'm simply interested in a nice crisp picture with extreme black control.
Schan: I appreciate your thoughts; unfortunately I used a bank debit/credit card. Although it's associated with VISA, according to the gal at the bank there are no additional protections short of having the transaction interrupted...stopped...before it's complete. By the time the TV got here, of course, that wasn't an option.
VT or GT?
Thank you so much again....
Rhino

 

[schan1269]

The "general consensus"...
If the VT is considered the 100% best plasma picture there is...
The GT is 95% as good. The ST is 93% as good. The main advantage with the VT is the AR. But, that only matters if you have...
1. a room with windows...
2. Both sets sitting next to each other.
Even the "worst" plasma on the market...which would be whatever the model number is of the current 42" 720P Samsung...would still be in the high 80%, still based on the 100% of the VT.
The best LCD, currently the Sharp Elite, is considered 80% as good as the VT.
Sit a Sharp Elite near a VT and the Sharp is just gawdawful...
Point is, plasma is so good, even at its worst, you almost can buy any one of them and be more than satisfied.
I would sit this right next to the VT series. Exactly as good? No, but 98-99%...
http://www.amazon.com/LG-Infinia-60PZ950-Certified-TruBlack/dp/B004LAEKMO/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1355827083&sr=1-3&keywords=lg+60+plasma+thx

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Rhino /t/326022/help-with-some-questions-about-panasonic-plasmas#post_4015117
Crawdaddy and Schan...thank you fellas. Appreciate your comments.
Crawdaddy: my error on interpretation of your first reply to me...I confused 'size' with what I believe you were expressing; VT vs GT series and their related costs. Sorry.
Which brings me to another question; is the VT50 series actually WORTH the extra expense over the GT50 series? They must have changed something to launch marketing of the '50' series over the 30's; and I'm certainly not qualified to know...or probably understand...what. As I mentioned earlier; I've been led to believe the Panny VT30 (and now, I assume VT50) series is as close as one can get to the Kuro technology in a new display. Also as I mentioned: I'm not opposed to buying a used machine IF I know the seller and it's within local pickup option. That ain't gon'a happen soon I don't imagine!
But another angle exists: I don't have a CLUE how to 'calibrate' a display...and even if I did, I have no interest in changing settings based on day or night viewing. The room I have set aside for the HT is by-and-large dark with exception of late summer afternoon when the sun can get to the only (single, double hung with Levelour (sp?) slat window-treatment) window in the room. And in that same vein, I wonder if I would even be able to use the tailoring controls of the 50VT series machines. I'm simply interested in a nice crisp picture with extreme black control.
Schan: I appreciate your thoughts; unfortunately I used a bank debit/credit card. Although it's associated with VISA, according to the gal at the bank there are no additional protections short of having the transaction interrupted...stopped...before it's complete. By the time the TV got here, of course, that wasn't an option.
VT or GT?
Thank you so much again....
Rhino

The improvements of the VT over the GT are the following:

Panasonic says the VT has a different black filter that gives it darker blacks than the GT series.
More ISF calibration settings
IMO, a better looking Glass Bezel Design that makes the display more cosmetically pleasing than the GT
Additional 24p playback 96Hz/48Hz. GT only offers 24p playback 48Hz
Viera Touchpad Controller

Is that worth several hundred dollars more than the GT? That's a question you have to answer as the GT prices are discounted more by retailers than the VT series has been the last few months. Amazon is selling the 65GT50 for $2500 while the 65VT50 is $3500 which is why I said in an earlier post that the GT gives you more bang for your buck than the VT.

Also, the 2012 50 models are not only cheaper than the 2011 30 models, but have improved blacks and smart TV capabilities. There are probably some more improvements, but those are the ones I remember as of now. In short, the 50 models are even closer to the Kuro than the 30 models. I expect in 5-6 months, the same will be said about the 2013 models versus the 2012 models. Also, I wonder if 2013 will have a 70" model?





Crawdaddy

 

[schan1269]

The improvements of the VT over the GT are the following:
Panasonic says the VT has a different black filter that gives it darker blacks than the GT series.
More ISF calibration settings
IMO, a better looking Glass Bezel Design that makes the display more cosmetically pleasing than the GT
Additional 24p playback 96Hz/48Hz.  GT only offers 24p playback 48Hz
Viera Touchpad Controller
Is that worth several hundred dollars more than the GT?  That's a question you have to answer as the GT prices are discounted more by retailers than the VT series has been the last few months.  Amazon is selling the 65GT50 for $2500 while the 65VT50 is $3500 which is why I said in an earlier post that the GT gives you more bang for your buck than the VT. 
Also, the 2012 50 models are not only cheaper than the 2011 30 models, but have improved blacks and smart TV capabilities.  There are probably some more improvements, but those are the ones I remember as of now.  In short, the 50 models are even closer to the Kuro than the 30 models.  I expect in 5-6 months, the same will be said about the 2013 models versus the 2012 models.  Also, I wonder if 2013 will have a 70".

It would be nice if Panny finally releases a consumer PDP bigger than 65". They've had them on the business side for years. A "true modern Kuro" is this one...
http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/TH-85PF12U-inch/index.asp (the next line down 65" business plasma are all equal or better than a VT)

 

[Rhino]

Wow! Now you guys are loadin' me up with heavy-hittin', nitty-gritty, can-use info! Manna of the forum experience! Thank you both so much. From your last posts I only have a few more questions before I make a move.....
SAM: You mention one of the plus differences between the VT and GT is, "The main advantage with the VT is the AR." 'AR'; is that Aspect Ratio? If not, I'm not sure otherwise...and yet if it IS Aspect Ratio, I don't understand how that could be different between the two; aren't both 16:9?
You mention the LG (whew...what a difference in price) as comparable; do they not have that same series in 65(+)"? I could look up the LG line myself, but I'm not sure I would recognize if the operative electronics and features systems are the same between the model you suggested and their other offerings...this is the difficulty I've had with the VT/GT conundrum. I had focused on the Panny since they own the Kuro technology. If the other is equally as good, in the larger size, I have no problem saving some money. I've already taken all the financial hit I need! LOL!
And...for the record...there won't be any 'side by side' displays! LOL! Lordy...if I can get ONE installed and end up with a well functioning HT I'll be happy as a hog in cool mud....
CRAWDADDY: You mention the additional "ISF" settings. I honestly don't have enough knowledge of the video electronics to know what that means and I'm wondering if I would...or even could...use those features. Are they something critical to getting...and LEAVING...the set properly adjusted?
I agree with you the front panel of the VT's is just gorgeous...bezel-less. I DO like that...a LOT.
You commented; "Additional 24p playback 96Hz/48Hz. GT only offers 24p playback 48Hz". Is that 'refresh rate'? I noted in one of your reply posts to "Stan" that 'refresh rate' is not such a critical feature to look for in display operation as the advertising/marketing department would like buyers to believe. What features of performance are enhanced in the VT, or would be absent in the GT, due to this specification?
Your comment about the 'professional' displays intrigued me; it reminded me that years ago when I first set out to build an HT (the early one had a Sony Bravia 52"...which in our new home is just a 'TV'), it was recommended that I get a DISPLAY, not a TV. My circumstance out here west of Kerrville, TX drastically limits my ability to receive any television broadcast outside the satellite service we now have (Dish...the other option is Direct...no cable out this far...). And, while I would like to have the TV programing available, the primary use will be other media input. I note that the TH-65PF30U is approximately $500 less than the same size VT and Kuro-equal in performance. Other than the potential resale audience...can you suggest any reason I'm not able to conjure why I would need the 'TV' side of the machine at all? This may sound like a silly question, but I'm giving it my best effort at this point not to make any 'regret-it-later' blunders.
One last note: whatever TVdisplay I select, I MUST be able to PICK IT UP...in MY truck...in either San Antone or Austin...AFTER I'VE SEEN IT WORK IN THE STORE! This will pretty much limit the purchase to 'big box' outlets I believe....
Thank you both again...I'm grateful for your help,
Rhino

 

[Rhino]

Sam and Crawdaddy;
Need to throw in one last ringer; looking over the TH-65PF30U display availability, I note that it has only ONE HDMI input. I have an Anchor Bay iScan VP50-Pro (hmmmm....wonder if Apple sued 'em for using a small "i" in the title....LOL!) albeit it has never had it's software updated since I got it in about '08. I looked into doing that and it struck me as a tedious procedure for which I had little to no confidence in my own ability.
Anyhow...the iScan was purchased to upgrade the 480p signal from my McIntosh MVP861. The highly knowledgeable gentleman who made the VT30 recommendation told me I wouldn't need that piece of equipment since the electronics in the Panny were as good as the iScan. I looked forward to eliminating it from the system (also; I can use the rack space it occupies). However, if I understand the input limitation of the TH series, I would need the iScan as a signal 'clearing house'; is this correct? If so, are there alternatives?
Also: it appears to me that the unit has NO RCA component inputs...there is one BNC component input (which would be good for the JVC 3000), but that's all. I used component inputs for all media input but the HDDVD.
I think there may be a problem with a display over the TV architecture here.....
Again, thanks....
Rhino

 

[Robert Crawford]

Neil,

I don't know anything about that other display you noted in your post. I think you need to look at the specs of that display and compared them to the VT or GT models then decide which display best fits your need. I would venture to say that the upconverting capability of the 2012 Pannys are very good and I don't see a need to keep an iScan in your system. Good luck in whatever display you do chose to purchase.








Crawdaddy