F. Projection Image Size vs Quality (1 Viewer)

[Thomas Willard]

My PT-L300U is projecting an 84 inch diagonal picture and at 1.5X screen width I find the picture to be bright and free of SDE. Use the 1.5X screen width to seating distance as your guide for proper screen size. The larger the room, the larger you can go, but unless you have a high lumen output projector, you will begin losing some brightness as the image gets bigger.

 

[JeromeB]

Great thread,
Thanks for all the great info on selecting a screen size. Speaking of screens, how important is the screen in determining overall picture quality? For the type of FPs described above (ranging up to DLP HD2 or HD2+ machines), is a routine Da-Lite Da-Mat sufficient? Do any of the other Da-Lite surfaces provided any significant benefits (Da-Mat, High Contrast Da-Mat, Pearlescent, Cinema Vision, High Contrast Cinema Vision, High Contrast Cinema Perf, Audio Vision, High Contrast Audio Vision, Da-Tex, Dual Vision and High Power viewing surfaces).

Thanks,
-jb

 

[Merimac Hamwich]

Seems like you guys here aren't too big on resolution being proportionate to picture quality. I see the X1 talked up ALOT on these forums and yet it only has a 800x600 native resolution.

I think comparing the X1 to HD projectors (1280x720 Native resolution) like the Sanyo PLV Z2 and the Panasonic PT-AE500U is really quite un-realistic.

The Panasonic PT-AE300U is a better comparison to the X1 as it has a 960x540 resolution.

Basically I feel that if you have to go for a Front Projector with a Native resolution below 1280x720p widescreen (1024x768 in 4:3 mode), it really isn't worth it.

I am personally looking at purchasing a new Front Projector as well, and the top models on my list right now are:

Studio Experience Matinee 2HD (Basically an OEM version of the Sanyo PLV Z2)
Sanyo PLV Z2
Panasonic PT-AE500U
NEC LT240k
Toshiba TDP P5
Toshiba TLP T60(61)MU

So far the Sanyo PLV Z2 is taking the lead, as it is relatively cheap (especially if you get the Studio Experience version) and it has lens shift, which I think will be a great feature.

I hope my post can help, ofcourse, if you feel I am wrong in any aspect, feel free to point out my mistakes in a civil manner.


-edit-
Also always remember that if you can get into a local retailer, MSRP usually isn't what you will be paying. I would expect 10% less at least.

-edit-edit-
I suppose I should be a little clearer on my native resolution argument for the newer poeple. I believe that having even non-HD material (IE: DVD's) scaled up to 720p rather than to a measely 540i/p would make a pretty big difference in image quality. Heck, some of the cheaper projectors can only do standard 480i, which I am darn sure looks worse than 720p.

 

[Guy Kuo]

There is a large range in terms of how people find pixels visible at various viewing angles. It's fairly treacherous to rely on other people for this parameter, particularly when you get closer than 2 screen widths. Closer than than (or large a screen than that) the projector, viewer tastes, viwer priorities, and visual education greatly determine whether or not the picture continues to be high enough quality for enjoyable viewing. As ones experience with video projection increases through viewing of higher end systems and learning about shortcomings in ones own system, the degree of satisfaction tends to drop over time. I'd factor in the time that viewers have had their system and how much time they have spent with high end projection systems into how you view the responses here. There really isn't a substitute for seeing a similar system and actually sitting down and watching it for a few hours using a variety of test materials. I have some DVD suggestions which are not the usual fare, but quite enlightening....

Lost in Space - Opening sequence. Pay close attention as you see the space station hanging in orbit above Earth. The camera zooms out and brings the station into view. On a high performance 9" CRT projector you'll have an uncanny sense of actually floating in orbit above clear vacuum. The star field in the background will be black. A lesser machine will loose that sense of clear vacuum and show some fogginess between you and the objects. Later, during the fighter launch sequence and subsequent flight, ask yourself if there is a good sense that the glass between you and pilot looks convincingly present and transparent.

Dark City: The film begins with a star field. It should appear quite dark rather than partially lit. As the camera pans down through the tops of buildings, the builds will look quite dimensional rather than flat if the projector is performing well. The remainder of the film is a torture test of a machine's ability to render dark scenes. On lesser digital machines, the film is all but unwatchable. On the latest generation HD2+ DLP, the film is watchable but still looks flattened on screen. Only with CRT projection have I seen this film look truely good.

Bring it On - Opening cheer sequence. Look a the color of red in the uniforms. Is is red or strongly orange. A good projector with accurate red primary will render the uniforms red with a very slight hint of orangeness. The animated letters which fly onto the screen after the opening cheer sequence are definitely red without hint of orangeness on a machine with good red rendition.

Is the gymnasium rendered with a sense of depth? Lower contrast machines will tend to ruin the depth illusion here.

Look also at the white tennis shoes in the opening cheer sequence. Are they normal looking or glowing starkly bluer than the lighting cues would suggest. Super blue tennis shoes suggest the grayscale of the machine is losing red in its upper end.

Skip forward several chapters to where the station wagon is arriving to pick up Missy. The scene is dark as the car pulls up in front of the house. Is there an odd glow? If so, the projector's elevated black level is spoiling the image. Once everyone is in the car, the camera switches to a view through the windowshield. The glass should seem transparent rather than a veil of fog between you and characters. Later, look at the black sky background behind the characters at the football game. It should look occasionally misty, but mostly black.


Autumn in New York - Excellent film for looking at color rendition. Are the outdoor scenes rendered with believable colors? Do the night scenes of the river side look like dusk lighting or is there an odd glow across the entire scene?


Boys and Girls: End of Chapter 5. There is a scene of the two main characters overlooking SF bay and the Golden Gate bridge. Does the bright background wash out the characters? Displays with more optical scatter will wash out the character's clothes. Later, watch the entireity of chapter 6. You will see a mix of outdoor sunlight, overcast, indoor, and night club lighting. In each circumstance pay attention to how well depth and color realism is maintained. Flesh tones should be realistic and very good depth illusion present during the outdoor "play" sequence.

Chapter 10 begins with the two characters walking in partial shadow but surrounded by sunlit structures. On some displays, you will see scatter into the shadows obsuring the characters.


Blue Crush - First chapter is early dawn lighting. There should be a good sense of depth despite the low lighting. It isn't as dark as Dark City so more projectors will pass. I'd consider this the lowers watchable level of performance. If a projector can't render this, I'd take a pass on the machine.

There you have it. A few DVD's to look at. Notice that there are NO CGI shots noted. Those are not suitable for checking color rendition unless you know the exact shade an animated character looks in real life. I've also omitted things like Matrix because of the alterred gray scale. BTW, technical testing discs will garner much more data, but I suspect most here will just want to look at film clips.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Ah ... But the X1 *does* compete fairly well with those machines due to five factors:

1. DLP, by its very nature, has a much larger pixel "fill factor" than LCD. A SVGA DLP therefore competes quite favorably with a WXGA LCD picture, at least in the area of pixellation, as a result. (Less unused space between the individual pixels means its more difficult to detect the "screendoor" effect.)

2. The X1's rated 2000:1 contrast ratio easily bests the Z2 and/or the AE500's rating in this critical category. As a result, the X1 sails through even the darkest movie scenes while still providing plenty of detail.

3. The X1's 16:9 mode has been designed to be pixel-to-pixel compatible with anamorphic DVD. (i.e.: It doesn't have to scale from that source.) It therefore provides an extremely sharp DVD image that belies its SVGA resolution. It's true that it *will* have to scale Hi-Def sources, but right now many of us have more anamorphic DVDs' than Hi-Def sources. (And Hi-Def still looks darn good on this projector!)

4. It provides world class Faroudja DCDi de-interlacing circuitry to help smooth out interlaced sources.

5. It costs less than $1000.

It's only real deficiency is in the area of its color wheel, which spins at a relatively slow 2x speed.

Just remember that resolution isn't everything!

 

[Kirk Patrick]

joseph

great post. you just sold me an X1

i pulled the plug on cable, my tv days are over. i am strictly a dvd watcher and i have worked hard to build a collection of as much anamorphic as possible. sounds like the perfect machine for me.

all that's left is to see if i see the rainbows which drive some people nuts...i hope i don't because i love the price

i assume that a 3 wheel machine would be better and less prone to rainbowing...is there another machine close to X1 in price that is very good for dvd only

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Kirk:

If you can hold out until the Infocus 4805 is available, you would probably have the perfect "DVD viewing machine". The 4805 is the "guts" of the X1, but with a 4x color wheel and a native 16:9 DLP chip. (It also provides about 250 more lumens than the X1 when that projector is operated in one of its home theater modes.) The problem is, we keep hearing varying reports as to when it will actually be available. It could be as early as late March, or as late as May!

Alternatively, the BenQ 6100 and 6200 projectors have been getting pretty good press lately, and they do include a 3x wheel, but neither projector provides the "pop" of the X1's picture in my opinion. (Color purity is not quite as good, and the de-interlacers in those projectors, while adequate, are not up to the quality of the X1's Faroudja. Of course, if you have a good progressive scan DVD player, you may not care about the quality of the de-interlacers.)

If you're one of the ones that can handle the X1's slow color wheel, it's still a great projector for DVD viewing at a great price. It can be purchased at Circuit City and/or Best Buy (in the computer accessory area) which would allow you to try it out for a couple of weeks.

Edit: The Infocus 4805 is supposed to retail for around $1400; it should be available at popular e-tailers for around $1199. The BenQ 6100 can be had for around $900.00 from the same sources.

 

[chris_clem]

I would reccomend the Panny 300U. It's resolution is more than adequate for DVD watching and "smooth screen technology" really works. No screendoor effect for me even when projecting on a 100" screen from 11-12ft away. It's price should be even more attractive now since the model replacing it (the 500U) has arrived. Also, the only major advantage the new model has over this one is true High-Def compatibility (which you won't be needing according to your posts).

While there are other points for and against the 300U and the X1, he clearest advantage the Panny has over the X1 (and the dealbreaker for me) is the lack of rainbows. Don't forget that even if you are not susceptible to rainbows others who may be watching with you might be! And the only way to tell if it bothers you is to watch for an extended period of time.

 

[Kirk Patrick]

Joseph _Bolus said:



It seems to me that you either deal with rainbows on dlp....or....screendoor on lcd. I guess it comes down to the viewer's experience, some see one and some see the other. I may be wrong but in the web reading i have done in the last couple of month's it seems like dlp is a the winner in terms of picture quality (as long as you don't see the rainbows!!!). I feel like i want to start with dlp, if i see the rainbows then i guess i'll try the lcd systems. Your point about watching for an extended period is a good one. The trick is to find a place where you can use it for at least 2 weeks, watch several different kinds of dvd's (action, animation, low light etc) and see what works.