D-VHS on the way? Studios pledge Support in Thursday's Conference (1 Viewer)

[John Morris]

D-VHS is just another way for the studios to start to enact their scheme to permanently restrict our home recording/personal use rights. As long as the D-VHS format does not allow for recording and playback using the players component connections, I am against it! Anyone who has recorded and played back a broadcast HD movie on a HiPix HTPC, has seen and is enjoying the future as it should be...

 

[Judy Y]

There is a great deal of controversy surrounding the issue of D-VHS and image constraint. However, it is clear that there WILL be copy protection when sent through the firewire ports on the recorders. THAT IS WRITTEN INTO THE STANDARDS. There may NOT be ANY image constraint through the analog component outputs. It depends on your interpretation. My guess would be that it would be stupid to disallow all the legacy HDTV owners ability to use the component inputs on their sets. I believe there will be no or rare image constraint through the component outs.

 

[John Morris]

I believe there will be no or rare image constraint through the component outs.

Judy: I believe that all current and all announced D-VHS players allow full res viewing ONLY through their digital connections. It is only because of this reason that the studios are even considering selling HD movies to the public.

 

[Judy Y]

Check out this thread at AVS forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=113803
It allows for a different perspective. (Sorry, don't seem to know how to put URL in here correctly.)

 

[Wookie Groomer]

As I see it, you can't beat having your favorite movie in the utmost highest quality it can possibly be purchased at. Once more titles come out and certain movies that certain people just love become available any arguments over the politics or the religious beliefs of the formats will go away. And believe me, reading these forums, I see on a regular basis people that takes sides on a matter as if it's a religious experience and there is no other side. So the "cult" reference is not out of line.

The Dolby Digital encoding will also be at a higher bitrate than the highest available on DVD so you win right there already. I suspect the soundtracks on D-VHS will be more robust than LD in its prime. Just imagine with all the extra space available you can utilize the full bitrate DTS track instead of the butchered half bit we get on DVD.

Just like with DVD, I thought well... if it fails at least I have such and such movies like Batman in the highest possible quality availbe on home video (even though almost 5 years later the quality of DVD has advanced so much that Batman sort of looks like a Goodtimes or Madacy release) I will say the same thing for High Def tape when it's available.

After seeing the units back panel I do see one major glaringly bad thing that could make this D-VHS deck less functional and possibly useless for anything other than watching pre-recoreded High Def, the lack of Component inputs. For the technology to have a real purpose you should be able to record scaled and line doubled video from your Home Theater PC or external doubler onto it. But still, you can't record anything of value other than cable and that's not real valuable.

But I think over all this is great news that we can finaly have 1080 High Def with killer Dolby Digital sound and be able to use our costly High Def ready TV's and projectors. How can you deny that?

 

[Matt_Marlow]

Judy: I believe that all current and all announced D-VHS players allow full res viewing ONLY through their digital connections. It is only because of this reason that the studios are even considering selling HD movies to the public.

Where are you getting this information? According to people at AVSFORUM who actually own this player, the full 1080i resolution IS sent through component video. Also, if you read the review at DVDFILE, they state that the current version of the player doesn't even have digital outputs, because JVC is waiting to see how the various possibilities concerning digital outputs get sorted out, and will add them to later models.
I can kind of see why some people are biased against a tape-based medium, but for me, the most important consideration is what's actually up on my screen, and this will look far better than DVDs ever looked. If some decent titles are released for it, I can't wait.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

I'd consider DVHS for a rental Medium, but when it came to actually purchasing movies to own I would not buy it on tape media. I'd say I'd buy it on DVD, but then after experiencing 1080i, could I go back to the lower res of DVD? Herein the problem lies.

 

[John Morris]

Where are you getting this information? According to people at AVSFORUM who actually own this player, the full 1080i resolution IS sent through component video. Also, if you read the review at DVDFILE, they state that the current version of the player doesn't even have digital outputs, because JVC is waiting to see how the various possibilities concerning digital outputs get sorted out, and will add them to later models.

I am talking about the Panasonic D-VHS models which require a digital connection to their model 50/51 stb in order to record and playback tapes. Since the JVC has component connections, does that mean that it can record and playback HDTV just like regular VCRs? If not, are you talking about spending $1-2K on a VCR that will just allow you to playback overpriced, limited lifetime, limited playback, taped movies? If the studios and manufacturers are so interested in giving us HD movies, what is wrong with developing HD DVD movies and HD DVD players (so called blue laser technology), which would be fully back compatable with current DVDs and HD equipment??? Why a closed ended tape technology? Because the studios want us to have only DiVX like, as close as pay-for-view, media as they can corner us into.

A VCR like D-VHS tape deck, I'd buy, but only if it allows recording AND playback in HDTV using analog connections. If the manufacturers also want to include digital connections too, fine. Otherwise, until then, just give me my HiPix (Tivo like) HD HTPC. At least it doesn't restrict my home recording rights...

 

[Jeff Bamberger]

I think this new format (which I hate the sound of and hope it dies a quick death) is all a scheme created by George Lucas so he can release the original Star Wars trilogy 5 more times on D-VHS before he releases it on DVD.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Since the JVC has component connections, does that mean that it can record and playback HDTV just like regular VCRs? If not, are you talking about spending $1-2K on a VCR that will just allow you to playback overpriced, limited lifetime, limited playback, taped movies?

It has firewire in for digital (including applicable HD settop box) sources, composite and s-video for NTSC, and component out.
So, yes, you can record and playback HDTV just like a regular VCR if you have the right settop box.

 

[John Morris]

So, yes, you can record and playback HDTV just like a regular VCR if you have the right settop box.

Michael: Wow! Fantastic! Okay, tell me what DVHS and STB I need to buy and I'll go get them today and sell my Pani, Sony STBs and HiPix tomorrow. Do the SVHS tapes still work in this newer DVHS as they did in the older DVHS models?

 

[Matt_Marlow]

I read that the JVC also has an output called "iLink", which is different from Firewire. Anyone know what this is?

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Quote:

No idea.

 

[John Morris]

have recorded firewire modified DTC-100 STBs into the JVC 30000U

Michael: So, only the 169time.com modified RCA STB units will allow recording on the JVC units? I looked into that but didn't like having to hack an STB in order to record and play back HDTV. It didn't make sense to me to buy a new STB and then void the warranty by hacking it. Also, the JVC unit doesn't offer any type of guide selectable recording, like a PVR. It just seems like a VCR type tape based unit is surely a step backward. A real advance should include HD DVD and a Replay/Tivo unit with HD capability. I can see it now... D-VHS players across the nation all flashing 12:00, over and over...

 

[Michael St. Clair]

John,
I agree on the 169time mod, that's why I think it makes sense to wait a couple of weeks while a lot more information comes out. I already HAVE a DTC100, but would rather switch to something like the Panasonic so I can get 480i and 480p channels as 480p.
It appears the JVC deck can be controlled by an STB, so with some STBs you may be able to schedule the recording through their interface. Mind you, I don't know this for sure, or if any current STBs would support this.

 

[Frank]

The most important thing about these DVHS tapes is will they work at full resolution with existing analog displays?
Those that know aren't telling?

 

[Chuck Anstey]

The most important thing about these DVHS tapes is will they work at full resolution with existing analog displays?

From what I gathered about from those reporting what the JVC Reps said (I wasn't there), the deck will only down-rez if the flag on the tape tells it to, which all decks have must do to be copy-protection compliant. So now you can ask the correct question "Will all pre-recorded movies have the down-rez flag turned on?". My understanding is only pre-recorded tapes and PPV can have COPY-NEVER / down rez turned on. Commercial TV stations are not allowed to screw up your HDTV recording / resolution by using those flags.

Chuck Anstey

 

[Dave Moritz]

I am a great supporter of new formats when they come out on the market. I have alot of CD's and I even bought a Denon DAT when they where still fighting with the studio's about media. I have a semi ok Pioneer DV525 which I am not sure I would buy again. I have had everything from analog LP's, analog cassettes, VHS, DAT, CD, LD, DVD, DVD-A and a Beta deck. When there is a solid product out that has an advantage or performance benafit. As in better video or audio that enhances the exsperiance for the consumer. I am most likely to back it but I can not see myself buying a D-VHS for any reason. Especially not if the content providers are going to decide what we can record and what we can not! Also what I fear they are going to do is take away the choice in surround format that DVD has given us. We have the choice of low grade highly compressed Dolby Digital and High Resolution DTS. Some people do not care and are happy with DD. But at least give the consumer the choice in DD or DTS. I doubt DTS will even be a option on D-VHS and it will be a shame. Studio's do not care what we want, it's all about what they want us to have! My VHS maight get used 10 times a year at the most. And with the cash I will be spending on upgrading my current HT system to a higher quality system D-VHS will not be on the list!

 

[Matt_Marlow]

From what I gathered about from those reporting what the JVC Reps said (I wasn't there), the deck will only down-rez if the flag on the tape tells it to, which all decks have must do to be copy-protection compliant. So now you can ask the correct question "Will all pre-recorded movies have the down-rez flag turned on?". My understanding is only pre-recorded tapes and PPV can have COPY-NEVER / down rez turned on.

According to posts at AVSFORUM, the demo tape that comes with the player doesn't have a "down-rez flag" on it, and it does have the D-Theater copy protection. So it works through the analog inputs. Hopefully this will be the case with pre-recoded movies. Honestly, how could it not be? The vast majority of HDTV owners would find the player useless. ecost.com has the player for $1,129 right now, which isn't too bad considering full retail is $1,995. Hopefully by this summer when pre-recorded tapes start hitting the market, the price will fall below $1,000. And by then, we'll surely know the status of copy protection on it.