AMD vs Pentium (1 Viewer)

[Bob Hill]

I have been following this thread for a few days now and I thought I might add my .02$ I annually put together anywhere from 15 to 25 computers for varying applications and am suprised at how many of the people I deal with are still looking at "clock speed" as the determining factor for how well a computer is going to perform versus another. They have no idea about how the differences in architecture make using processor clock speed for performance comparison an apples to oranges situation. With that rant, guess this is a hot button with me, I am so glad that there are forums such as this one to enlighten folks on the realities of computers and performance.

 

[Andrew Pratt]

Bob I agree with you on the clock speed issue. I love how Intel (and thier fans) all used to go on and on about the AMD clock rating systems but now with the centrino's out suddently clock speed isn't an issue (for what its worth I'd got a P4 and an Athlon at home)

 

[Jonny K]

I didn't bother to read most of the thread since I'm short on time. Instead, I'll just give you my take:



AMD CPUs are just as good as Intel, but they cost less. That's all there is to it. Don't look at clock speed or processor heat, they don't matter. If the processor ran at 1,000 C it still wouldn't matter if that was within it's safe operating range. AMD CPUs may run hotter, but that's not necessarily bad. I've been running AMD for years now and they perform great while being very in-expensive. They don't die in a year or two, and they perform on par with Intel (sometimes better, sometimes worse, usually a close race). If the salesman told you Pentium was better, then he was probably just after a larger commision from you for paying more.





Jonny K.

 

[Mark Paquette]

Thanks for all the mobo tips everyone. Time to do some price researching. This will be my first attempt to build my own PC.

 

[Kevin P]

AMDs should last as long as Intels provided they are cooled adequately. However, if your HSF falls off (I've seen it happen, on a Compaq Presario), the P4 will throttle back to protect itself. The Athlon will release its magic smoke and wreck the motherboard as well--it could conceivably be a fire hazard too, judging from the burn marks I found inside that Presario.

So if you go AMD, make sure the heat sink is securely attached. I think most MBs have mounting points so you can bolt the HSF right to the board. The HSF fell off in the Presario because it was held on by the plastic tab on the CPU socket, and it eventually fatigued and snapped from the heat and weight.

 

[Jonny K]

Ok, now that's definately a VERY isolated incident. Heatsinks never fall off. Have you ever tried to install one? Tried to remove it after? It's near impossible to get some of those clips on because they're so tight, and even harder to get them off!


Jonny K.

 

[Scott L]

The HSF on my sis's old P166 just stopped working several months ago. Thing is I didn't know it until I took it apart. She was using the computer just like normal (for casual net browsing/mp3s) and still is.. never had a problem with it.

So while the heatsinks may stay attached the fans can stop working.

 

[DaveGTP]

I had a dead fan on my Athlon T-bird 750 - it had dust in the bearings and spun once or twice a minute. Basically, almost no heating. And the system ran fine most of the time - it only bluescreened intermittently. I ran it like that for quite a while (a few weeks) before I tore it apart - I thought the problem was Windows.

New fan/heat sink combo, bam, fine.
The processor still worked fine when I took it out of my fiancee's box and replaced it with a 1.1 ghz.

So, just cause the fan goes, doesn't mean the thing will light on fire. Without a heat sink, yeah.

Besides, I think the newest chips/boards do have thermal protection.

As far as AMD durability, I had, and then passed to my fiancee, a K6-2 350mhz that we ran for about 4-5 years. It's in a box with the Super7 board, and still works just fine. If there was any evidence to the contrary, you'd hear solid proof.

This 'AMDs have a shorter lifespan' stuff is just an urban myth blown out of proportion - like the uneducated clerks saying "plasma TVs only last 3 or 4 years, tops"

 

[PhilBoy]

I'm on my second AMD...

The first one is 7 years old and still cranking.

My second AMD the XP1600 doesn't seem to have a heat problem even when video rendering.

 

[NickSo]

Hehe, i remember my old OLD 486 was actually an AMD... It would ran solidly till a few months ago when we decided to chuck it...

Im running my PC on an AMD as well, XP1700+... It runs a bit on the wamer side though (Round 40-45 Celsius) just coz i cheaped out on the case, and the fans are cheap, and im using the stock HSF... but i AM using Arctic Silver ALUMINA on there

Anyways, highly recommend AMD just for its value...

 

[Jonny K]

I'm about to upgrade to an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ or so. It's dirt cheap. Super cheap for a CPU upgrade - $130 Canadian! For that price, there's no excuse for running slow.


Jonny K.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Yes some newer AMD's have Thermal Protection like the Intel
Pentiums have had all along..


You want the true Pro's and Con's?

Intel Pentium 4

More Costly
Built To Military Spec with FR-4 Glass Substrates and the
use of the Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS) is nice.
On average runs cooler than the AMD Cores and requires less
of the Heat Sink/Fan and can even be ran without a fan safely
due to the Throttle Back feature.

AMD Cores

Big Value
Fragile Core Substrate (Pink Ceramic) install an HSF cock
eyed by accident and kiss the Core goodbye..
Run Hot and if you loose the HSF (and it CAN happen) in most
cases kiss it goodbye..


I wouldn't even venture into speed because it depends on how
both complete systems are set up and configured but they
both perform fantastic. My biggest gripes with AMD is the
fragile substrate material and the heat factor. Both of the
issues are minor if you are knowledgeable but if some newbie
gets inside the case they could damage the CPU by removing
or installing an HSF not knowing what they are doing. Also
if you don't have a thermally protected AMD CPU and you
loose the HSF you could fly the core.. It CAN happen and has
happened to some people. If I had an AMD I would use an HSF
that bolted to the MoBo and I would be mighty careful when
I went to attatch it!

But both CPU's are great and we are lucky to have this kind
of speed at our fingertips!

 

[Kevin P]

Ok, now that's definately a VERY isolated incident. Heatsinks never fall off. Have you ever tried to install one? Tried to remove it after? It's near impossible to get some of those clips on because they're so tight, and even harder to get them off!

I don't know about that... on the Presario I mentioned the HSF was attached with the usual metal clip that hooks onto plastic tabs on either side of the CPU socket. And since Athlons run hot, it uses a honkin' heavy-duty HSF, held on by that little plastic tab. I'm sure it was good and tight up until the heat fatigued/dried out the plastic socket material and that all-too-important plastic tab eventually snapped. Next thing you know, the HSF fell off, the CPU fried itself and it had a nice smell of burning plastic even after they unplugged it and I arrived the next day to check it out.

They ended up buying another Presario, a newer model with an AthlonXP chip. When I took the cover off to put their old hard drive into the new machine, I could see that the HSF was still held on by the same clip/socket edge tab configuration, meaning that the new machine could eventually suffer the same fate as the old one.

In short, plastic + heat + weight = eventual failure = HSF falling off = fried CPU if it doesn't have thermal protection. If you're building a system with a AMD, go for a motherboard that lets you secure the HSF to the board, since then there will be no chance of it falling off.

 

[AjayM]

Not only do they fall off but they can fail as well. My old 1Ghz AMD had that problem, luckily I had enough case cooling to keep the CPU from frying, but the machine become grossly unstable because of it.

To give you a little tidbit, when I went from a 1Ghz AMD to a 1.8Ghz Intel my case temps (not CPU temps, but actual temp in the case) fell 15-20 degree's.

Andrew

 

[Ian Wilson]

The heat issue is an interesting one, since the current P4's run hotter than the equivalent AMD chips.

Athlon XP-3200+
60.4W Typical dissipation 76.8W max dissipation

P4-3.2C
82W Thermal design power. Max dissipation figures >100W

Click for source

At the end of the day AMD has the biggest bang for the buck. Isn't that what counts the most?

 

[Jonny K]

I really don't care how hot my computer runs, as long as it runs properly.

And as for the plastic tab that holds the heatsink on, this is the only method I've ever seen in any motherboard I have used. I know a few motherboards support a more advanced setup involving nuts and bolts, but not many.

Like I said, isloated incident. If this was really a common problem then surely computer nerds like myself and my friends would have heard about it, the news would have hit slashdot, HardOCP, and all the other nerd sites, everybody would know about it.


Jonny K.

 

[Mark Paquette]

Some of the motherboards I've been looking at claim to have some kind of heat monitoring capability for the CPU. If things get too hot, everything shuts down. Anyone familiar with this?

 

[Brett DiMichele]

My Intel Motherboard has the Heat Sink Bracket bolted to
the MoBo and then my big azz CoolerMaster Copper Heat Pipe
Heat Sink is held on with huge "Cam Lock" Levers.

My 1.8a Not Overclocked with the Coolermaster Fujiyama
Heat Pipe Copper HSF with Arctic Silver Thermal II between
the HSF and the IHS on the P4 with 100% CPU Useage I run
at 114F constant (what would a similar Athlon run at? 135?)



I am not saying that the heat is a "problem" as long as the
cooling solution is done right.. And yes I monitor my CPU
Core and my System Board Temperature.. Hell I even have a
ThermalTake RamSink with Fan setup.. Yeah my machine sounds
like a fricken hoover but it's stable under 100% CPU Load
Indefinatly! (another reason why I love my Intel MoBo..
It is STABLE!)

 

[Mike Graham]

ASUS implemented heat protection for all their motherboards, AMD and Intel alike, ages ago. No matter what modern chip you buy with a decent motherboard manufacturer, you should be safe. When I bought my CPU last year, Athlon XP2000+, it wasn't even top of the line, but the chip itself and the ASUS motherboard I bought with it came well equiped to handle overheating, etc.

I've always been under the assumption that P4s were best for video rendering and the absolute latest technology, such as the upcoming Half Life. However, for everything else the AMD CPUs should be good enough for the average user.

Also, if I hadn't of upgraded, I would still be using the AMD K6 450 that ran from 1999 - 2002 without any problems. I'm sure the Athlons will last a long time as well.

 

[Jeff Blair]

Most mother boards now have some sort of heat protection. At lease the big brands: MSI, Asus, ABit. I have a MSI and it runs great. I have a Soyo in one of my other PC's that has been running an AMD1800 for about 2 years now with no problems. I would go with AMD. I feel that you get more bang for the buck. Yes, the new Intel's are a little faster, but in the real world, you most likely won't see a difference. Just get a good 400FSB mother board, any of the ones already listed, and 2 sticks of 3200 or better memory, and you'll be set. I am saving up for the new FX-51 AMD. mmmm...64 bits.