A Few Words About A few words about...™ Avatar -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

I'd like to think so too...that said, there is one scene in the beginning that jumped out at me, when the two guys are talking to Sully about his brother, and the guy on the left of the screen has his head/face cut off on my screen. Yes I have like 5% overscan but even accounting for that on my screen he wouldn't be fully visible, and he's a talking part of the scene. It's where the guy says "and the pay is good...very good". Here's a shot from my phone's camera. Pardon the crappy quality. For the 3-4 second shot where he says the line, his face is cut off like this:



Really odd that they'd cut him off like that. However I don't have an eidetic memory so I can't swear he wasn't cut off in the theatrical version. But given how Cameron frames his shots, I don't see him cutting the guy's face off while he's talking.

Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt

If Cameron did use a simple crop to 2.39:1 for conventional theaters, than what's the issue? If you want to restore the 2.35:1 frame, simply put up the mattes you usually use for 2.39:1 films (or run out to Staples and get a piece of black poster board to use).


With a movie that's as constructed as this one is, I personally can't believe that anything in the 16x9 frame is unintentional.

 

[Carlo_M]

I just remembered I can set my TV to eliminate overscan by making the video not stretch to the edge of the screen (it creates a windowbox effect). So here's the exact same frame without overscan:






And here's from a second or earlier when he's actually talking, and still half of his face is cut off. As I said, he's like that for his entire delivery of the line.




Food for thought...

 

[Brian Borst]

That shot is focusing on Jake, so we don't really need to see the other guy talk. That's my take on it, at least.

 

[Carlo_M]

Yes Jake is "the hero". But that doesn't justify cutting off a guy's head who has a speaking part (the only speaking part) in that brief scene. What my camera phone doesn't show (because I only shot that side) is that the other guy's head (to Jake's right if you're looking at the TV) is there in its entirety. So why is that guy, who has no line, shown completely, and the guy talking has half his face cut off? A really odd choice by a director who seemingly examines each and every frame of his film with a microscope.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina

Yes Jake is "the hero". But that doesn't justify cutting off a guy's head who has a speaking part (the only speaking part) in that brief scene. What my camera phone doesn't show (because I only shot that side) is that the other guy's head (to Jake's right if you're looking at the TV) is there in its entirety. So why is that guy, who has no line, shown completely, and the guy talking has half his face cut off? A really odd choice by a director who seemingly examines each and every frame of his film with a microscope.

That kind of framing isn't really all that uncommon. The film maker, in the case Cameron, maybe trying to point out that what that character is saying, isn't particularly important, so he intentionally frames him in a way to diminish the the authority of his words. My guess is the framing is quite intentional.


Doug

 

[Carlo_M]

An interesting take, though the words "and the pay is good" is really the impetus of why Jake's going. So I'm not sure why Cameron would diminish something that is the rationale of Jake leaving. In fact, the story is even more powerful if you consider that he's leaving purely for money (to fix his back) only to completely turn 180 degrees and shun that opportunity, and have that choice redeemed in the end.


Plus, and admittedly I'm no director or DP, but in all my years of looking at and recreationally studying film techniques, I've never heard of using a technique of cropping a talking onscreen presence to "diminish" his words. If anything, don't show the guy at all, have it come from offscreen, if you're not wanting the audience to focus on the person talking. Not to say the technique doesn't exist, just that I've never heard of it.


I'm not sure I'll have the time, but if I find Avatar playing locally in 2.35 and can squeeze 2h40m I might try to watch it and see if the left side of the scene is framed the same way.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina

An interesting take, though the words "and the pay is good" is really the impetus of why Jake's going. So I'm not sure why Cameron would diminish something that is the rationale of Jake leaving. In fact, the story is even more powerful if you consider that he's leaving purely for money (to fix his back) only to completely turn 180 degrees and shun that opportunity, and have that choice redeemed in the end.


Plus, and admittedly I'm no director or DP, but in all my years of looking at and recreationally studying film techniques, I've never heard of using a technique of cropping a talking onscreen presence to "diminish" his words. If anything, don't show the guy at all, have it come from offscreen, if you're not wanting the audience to focus on the person talking. Not to say the technique doesn't exist, just that I've never heard of it.


I'm not sure I'll have the time, but if I find Avatar playing locally in 2.35 and can squeeze 2h40m I might try to watch it and see if the left side of the scene is framed the same way.

I'm thinking the framing is more foreshadowing than commenting on his motivation at the moment.


The left side of the frame would have to be framed that way in 2.35:1 because the blu-ray is showing the full image area, in fact probably more so than the theatrical because that would have been cropped to 1.85:1 and the blu-ray is 1.78:1, the full width of the HD frame.


Doug

 

[Mark_TB]

I think it was an artistic decision; in any case, it doesn't contradict with my (admittedly vague) recollection of the scene in the theater.


The point is that Jake isn't really paying attention to the men, or what they are saying. He is only "half-aware" of their presence, if you want to get literal. Joss Whedon did a similar thing in the BUFFY episode "The Body," where there's a shot from Buffy's POV on the paramedic describing how her mom died, but the top half of his head out of frame.


- Mark

 

[Johnny Angell]

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina

An interesting take, though the words "and the pay is good" is really the impetus of why Jake's going.

I don't think the "good pay" is the only reason he's going. He's got two opportunities to get his legs back, either through the surgery he can't afford (interesting that our soldiers are still not receiving the care they deserve) or through the avatar.

Combine that with the fact that Jake must have a pair of brass ones to take on this adventure. I think he's always looking for adventure. If he had two good legs, I think he still would have taken on the opportunity.

 

[FreyTheater]

I am sure the cropping was done purposely, as a visual effect. For example, I have a movie poster hanging on the wall of my theater room for "Star Wars III Revenge of the Sith", and they have purposely chopped the face of Anaken at the edge of the poster - for what other reason than a visual effect?:


https://static.hometheaterforum.com/imgrepo/c/c9/avatar-60-4.jpg

 

[Vincent_P]

Wow, so now we're arguing over an out-of-focus background figure being "cropped off screen", and the person doing the arguing even admits they can't remember how the shot was framed in theaters...


Really?...


I mean, REALLY???


Vincent

 

[Vincent_P]

There's an almost identical shot in JFK when the camera is focused on an unspeaking Kevin Costner in close-up while his assistant is speaking the vital lines of dialogue while out of focus behind him...


That Oliver Stone, what an idiot filmmaker, huh? Almost as stupid as James Cameron...


Vincent

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina

Yes Jake is "the hero". But that doesn't justify cutting off a guy's head who has a speaking part (the only speaking part) in that brief scene. What my camera phone doesn't show (because I only shot that side) is that the other guy's head (to Jake's right if you're looking at the TV) is there in its entirety. So why is that guy, who has no line, shown completely, and the guy talking has half his face cut off? A really odd choice by a director who seemingly examines each and every frame of his film with a microscope.

 

[FreyTheater]

Originally Posted by Vincent_P

Wow, so now we're arguing over an out-of-focus background figure being "cropped off screen", and the person doing the arguing even admits they can't remember how the shot was framed in theaters...


Really?...


I mean, REALLY???


Vincent

No, no one is arguing, someone brought up a question and we're all trying to answer him with an explanation... it may be a little trivial, yes, but hey, It's boring here at work, so... lol.

 

[cafink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent_P

There's an almost identical shot in JFK when the camera is focused on an unspeaking Kevin Costner in close-up while his assistant is speaking the vital lines of dialogue while out of focus behind him...


That Oliver Stone, what an idiot filmmaker, huh? Almost as stupid as James Cameron...


Vincent

No one has called Cameron "an idiot" or "stupid." Carlo just noted something about the movie that "jumped out" as "odd." He admitted that he didn't have all the answers and brought it up as "food for thought," which seems pretty reasonable to me, and certainly not worthy of your grief.

 

[Carlo_M]

Wow, I'm not sure what brought all that negativity on...I'd challenge anyone to re-read my posts and see where I called Cameron any of those names. In fact, Cameron's one of my favorite directors, he hasn't made a movie (short of Piranha 2 which I've never seen) that I didn't like or love.


And for the record, I've formulated my own theory as to why the talking guy is cropped. If you go about 10 seconds earlier, there is the same scene with Jake and the two guys talking, with both guys fully in the frame behind him. Then as the conversation progresses, the camera starts panning to the right. Then there's a cutaway of the ship and Pandora while the conversation continues, and then cuts back to Jake and the two guys talking (the conversation has been happening the whole time via voiceover). So my theory is that the entire scene was one continuous shot beginning with all characters in frame, with a slow pan to the right, and was later intercut with the outer space footage. So that one scene I noticed wasn't necessarily filmed with the thought of "let's crop this guy out to diminish his words" as the focus of the scene was always Jake (he's literally the only one in focus) and the chosen camera pan ended up edging the guy on the left out eventually. The choice to intercut it with outer space footage made it a bit jarring to my eye.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina /forum/thread/299985/a-few-words-about-avatar-in-blu-ray/60#post_3691044

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Fox has announced that there is additional bonus feature content being made available via BD Live for those of us who currently own Avatar on Blu-ray between now and the release of the new Collector's Edition on 11/16:


With access to a BD-Live player with a network connection, once you insert your disc into the player a LIVE EXTRAS option will appear in the main menu. By selecting this, new content will quickly download, allowing you to access preview video clips from the forthcoming Avatar: Collector's Edition Blu-ray.



Below are the videos that will be made available from the November 16th Collector's Edition release and which you can chose to either download to your player in high quality, or stream them for faster access.


1) Bar Fight: Excerpt from the Collector’s Extended Cut
2) Users Guide for AVATAR deleted scenes
3) Kauai: Excerpt from documentary
4) Grandma's Teylu: Never Before Seen Deleted Scene
5) 2006 Art Reel Excerpt
6) Driving Range: Never Before Seen Deleted Scene
7) Acting in the Volume: Excerpt from documentary
8) Drums of War (full version): Never Before Seen Deleted Scene
9) Scene Deconstruction: Demonstration
10) “What did happen”: Excerpt from the Collector's Extended Cut

b) the following pieces of content are going on the Portal for the Avatar ECE November disc:
1) Crew Short: The Night Before Avatar
2) Raw Footage Production Elements (runtime estimated 51:55)
- Screen Test – Sam Worthington & Zoe Saldana (Raw Footage) (10:44)
- Screen Test – Stephen Lang (Raw Footage) (4:30)
- Screen Test – Giovanni Ribisi (Raw Footage) (3:10)
- Screen Test – Joel David Moore (Raw Footage) (4:10)
- Screen Test – CCH Pounder (Raw Footage) (4:47)
- Screen Test – Laz Alonso (Raw Footage) (6:49)
- Speaking Na’vi (Rehearsal/Raw Footage) (6:39)
- Weta Workshop: Walk & Talk Presentation (Raw Footage) (11:06)