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:) that's ok, Mike- i'm done for a while. peace, fellas

nevermind (i'm promised myself i wouldn't be too much of a jackass this week)

whenever i read reference to some character or their plans in these films possessing great wit or genius, i'm immediately reminded of the quote that goes "What passes for woman's intuition is often nothing more than man's transparency." its not that impressive when Lucas is clearly rigging...

Chris, it seemed that many people here were telling me that the problem with the Jedi was institutional. its only that Luke breaks away from their tenents by loving (by attaching himself to) his dad or some such nonsense, that the universe is saved. also- showing the Jedi as being so easily...

well, everybody sees what they want to see, i guess. even me. i guess maybe i did want to see flaws in this material and i saw them a plenty. maybe i was rooting for this material to fail, because i felt that material betrayed some of its earlier core tenents moral clarity was one of these...

yeah, ok. that interp i wouldn't argue. that is basically what i was trying to get at when i say that the philosophy espoused by the 'good guys' in the OT and now contradicted by their actions in the prequels (and especially Sith) renders them basically BS.

i see very little difference here between what is supposed to apply to the Sith and how the Jedi can (fairly easily) be interpreted in these films. Did Mace not act like DA, Cop, Judge, Jury and then potential executioner when he finds out Palp is(gasp!) The Big Sith? the Jedi are poorly...

Sorry Ted, only a Sith believes in those kinds of absolutes. and if ever in doubt, always be sure to pull out your "certain point of view" card- besides giving you substantial discounts on muslin tunics, it also gives you a unlimited free pass for just about any moral or character...

yeah, and it was that, along with his geoncidal mood swings, that made him so attractive to Padme the political idealist. Lucas was right, its really interesting to look at the OT now and see that the two main heros are the offspring of an emotionally retarded, facist serial killer and his...

to paraphrase Batman Begins, "what he does defines him" what does Vader do to show you the humanity is slowly creeping back into him? the very last thing he does while he still posesses all of his extremities is to duel his son to the death and threaten to corrupt his daughter. i don't...

when you say "to find out where he stands" that right there implies that the Jedi have suspicions about Palpatines motivations and alligences. how could they possibly have they a suspicon that he may stand in league with the Sith, yet they convienently have no suspicion that he may be the Sith...

its not that han was 'relegated to the B squad" that bothered me- although i agree that he is not a character with a story point or any real emotional investment in the film. any other supporting character could have done what he did and it wouldn't much have mattered. if he had emerged from...

the response i always got to criticisms of the emperors behaviour was "he was over confident, that was his problem" so if he's over confident, why would he feel a need to evacuate in his moment of triumph. (kind of a shame he didn't at some point get to say that since that would have really...

dbl post

but to get back to the 'other' issue- there are two things going on in Jedi the rebel assault and the luke/vader/emperor material. Luke surrendering himself, etc is Luke acting on and for his personal needs. even if his need is to save his father- that is his characters dramatic need...

there's a couple good points you highlight in here, Matt- but i'll take the one that i find most interesting first "If he felt some adolescent fixation with his father, he would have joined him in Bespin." Luke, at that point, was overloaded with information that he just could not process-...

interesting. it seems to me, Lukes love for his father (while based on nothing more than sentimentality really, since the two have no real common bond beyond a blood condition) also is portrayed as very 'selfish'. the sentimentality of it could also be expressed in another way- as an...

yeah, that's my job, Lou. ;)

Dharmesh said this a couple pages back and no one really picked up on it, but i just wanted to say i think he's 100% right. and i think it was Patrick that commented on the inertia of the film, being sandwhich between two immovable poles of plot points it either has to meet or take off from-...

"these aren't the droids you're looking for..." no, it's not a dream planted in sleep, but its close enough for this kind of a film to give a relavency to that interpretation

that's an interesting interpretation Richard, and certainly not outside the bounds of a fantasy film. however the relationship between these two characters has been one of the weakest things about these films (jmo, but i expect many people share it). to have had something like what you...

that's kind of what i was thinking, but i just wanted to make sure. ok, so basically, he is miffed that they were right all along not to trust him because he was being manipulated by an enemy. i don't really see how he can harbour any real grievences with the way the Jedi acted here, given...

i've only seen the film once (egads!) so i don't remember this point very well, but how were the jedi using Anakin and how long did it take for him to find out, and did he ever confront them about this?

it wouldn't matter if the movie itself explictly suggests it at any point- and i'm not saying that that is what was going on or what needed to go on. i'm just relating what i think would be a more reasonable reaction from this character- given, how he has been portrayed previously, and...

i'm in the middle of some down time :) seriously, i don't like harping. the mace/palp/anakin scene was the cruxt of the movie for me- and its been sticking in my mind.

(upon hearing his beloveds name uttered by newly revealed machiavelian Sith lord, his body bristles, and anger rages to a boil) ANAKIN: YOU?...You're the one that's been putting these dreams in my head! Tell Me! TELL ME! also- after Mace has been murdered- if he willing to be...

this is a guy who has been shown as being very prideful, very egotistical, very pissed off when it appears like the council is marginalizing him or not giving him his due- i have a hard time accepting that, no matter what it is he wants, that his first impulse to attaining it would be to...

i think the presence of any ghosts in general is a sentimental (crutch?). in a way, i understand that it harkens back to a much simpler age of storytelling where all the characters get a last 'curtain call' and in that spirit, i understand. but i think Vader would have been more powerful if...

Chuck, :laugh:

"i'll meet you at the rendezvous point on Tatooine ...in 3 years" ? i hear this quite a bit but i don't where do you guys get 3 yrs from. is this from one of the novelizations or visual dictionarys or something? i never considered it as being more than a couple months myself.