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4.24.02 Enterprise


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#1 of 34 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted April 24 2002 - 07:07 PM

I'm surprised no one has posted about this show yet!

I really enjoyed seeing "Detained". In deference of Wil's comment on the other Enterprise thread (4/2/02), it didn't feel like Voyager, it actually felt more like Classic Trek to me. I felt it was one of the better shows of this year.

Regarding Wil's negative comment of Archer explaining to the audience of the Japanese internment camps of WW2. While I saw right through that one early on, I didn't mind it that much considering that a large number of the audience probably is too young or don't know about this historic fact.

Must have been fun for Dean Stockwell and Scott Bakula to work together again. Bakula must get the award for the most bloodly lips winning over Walter Keonig's Chekov screams over the his run of the series.

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#2 of 34 OFFLINE   Jeff

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Posted April 24 2002 - 08:02 PM

I've just about given up on this formula, rehashed show. I actually like Voyager better (Seasons 3-6).

Does anyone know what the ratings are like? I can't see Enterprise going for 7 seaons. Maybe 2 or 3.

Anyway, I will check this episode out but I have no hopes, as I've hated the last 5.



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#3 of 34 OFFLINE   Jim Benard

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Posted April 25 2002 - 02:23 AM

Is anyone bothered by this recent introduction of 'human' aliens? Last night they did it again. We find a race that 'appears' human! This isn't a big deal in the Star Trek timeline? I can't remember any old shows that dealt with this issue. If today we were to discover another planet that contained humans that were identical in every way to us it would be a very big deal. They don't seem to feel that way on 'Enterprise'. It's almost like this discovery already happened prior to this series?

any thoughts?

#4 of 34 OFFLINE   Mark Turetsky

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Posted April 25 2002 - 02:42 AM

Quote:
Is anyone bothered by this recent introduction of 'human' aliens?

Recent introduction? Human looking aliens have been there from the start. At this point, it's a Star Trek tradition. As for it being an amazing discovery, I agree that it would be. But one of the conceits of Star Trek has always been that aliens look more human than not. Considering their first contact was with Vulcans, a race that looks human enough, it probably wouldn't surprise them much at all. It's just one of the many conceits of Trek.

As for old shows that dealt with that issue, there was TNG's The Chase, where they explained that all the races in the galaxy came from a common genome deposited by a super-race billions of years ago who found themselves alone in the galaxy.

#5 of 34 OFFLINE   Jason Seaver

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Posted April 25 2002 - 02:54 AM

Quote:
Is anyone bothered by this recent introduction of 'human' aliens?

Not really. The Vulcans, the first aliens humanity met, look pretty dang human, and just about every other species conforms to the two arms/two legs/one head with specific arrangement of sense organs/two sexes template. For better or worse, that's just how it works in the ST universe.

Understand, off-screen, it's probably leading to some incredible panspermia and creation-vs-evolution debates in the various planets' scientific communities, but we don't get to see that.
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#6 of 34 OFFLINE   Andrew Beacom

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Posted April 25 2002 - 02:58 AM

I would suggest that no-one has posted because the episode was bad. It was Voyager mark II. I kept wondering when Janeway would pop her head in.

I'm so glad they realised how useful it is for a plot escape to have an alien/holographic Dr who can do everything. Malcolm as a perfect replica of a Suliban. No problem. I can whip that up in no time.

As soon as I realised they were doing the Japanese internment analogy I groaned. The story or close derivatives have been overdone.

At least B&B are mixing their old Trek because Archer was a Picard replica in this episode. PC and high ideals left, right and center.

#7 of 34 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted April 25 2002 - 03:38 AM

I've read about half the posts on the Star Trek gripes thread and I think this show has covered quite a few of them.

From my humble opinion, I liked Detained for a couple of reasons. It took on several of the Original Series Roddenberry ideals:

Roddenberry has always maintained that Star Trek was a vehicle to make comments on the Human Condition. On the other thread, someone had a problem that Star Trek 6 dealt too closely with current events. That was a Leonard Nimoy story idea, to relate it to the demise of the Soviet Union. He said that it was no different then the stories of the Original Series that dealt with the Vietnam war, or with race relations or with the futility of war. So last night's show was probably a little about the bad treatment that people in the US who happen to look like the Taliban are suffering.

Regarding the aliens looking human. Well, in 1965 and 1966 during the Original Series developemnt from pilot to series, they had an extremely limited budget and time and lacked the current technology for make up and CGI. Roddenberry said himself that it was just plain practical to use actors that were of the human species. I bet that the grind to produce a weekly series will quickly cause the producers find ways to save some time and money to get the product on the air. So yes, it's a Trek conceit. Species 8479 or whatever their number was were cool to look at and they moved around pretty well, but they just didn't emote as well as human actors.

I suppose that the story last night could be called old fashioned, maybe that's why I liked it. Old fashioned in that it was a tradional action adventure formated episode with that little social comment thrown in. A little like "A Private Little War", or "A Taste of Armageddon" from the Original Series.

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#8 of 34 OFFLINE   Ric Easton

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Posted April 25 2002 - 03:48 AM

I liked last night's episode... alot. It definately had an original Trek feel to it, and I didn't mind it one bit. Yes I could see the analogy with our own human history before Archer stated it outright... again it didn't bother me. I think it was the kind of story that ST has always done best.

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#9 of 34 OFFLINE   Jack Briggs

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Posted April 25 2002 - 05:05 AM

(I almost posted last night after watching this thing, but, man, just too darn tired--and fed up.)

The Problem:

"Story by Rick Berman and Brannon Braga."

Remember the line from The Beatles's "Day Tripper"? "...taking the easy way out, yeah..."

Talk about formula. The Berman/Braga regime is in such a hurry to settle down to business as usual. Yes, indeedy, this piece-of-crap episode was a rehash of rehash of a rehash of a rehash.

How many more stories about Our Crew being detained in some "alien" prison must we endure?

Why, if the so-called "universal translator" is in its infancy, and we have only Hoshi to help us out of linguistic jams, was everybody able to understand each other so thoroughly, with nary a hiccup?

And how many more tales of political insurrection and intrigue that so closely match whatever is in the news right here on Earth in the year 2002 must we have shoved down our throats?

This wretched episode was an absolute, complete, unmitigated, and utter failure. It was all I could do sit through the entire show.

Already, the creators have so willfully forgotten the original premise of humanity setting sail on the grand interstellar adventure where everything is new and awe-inspiring. This episode could have been dropped into any of the previous four series in any of their respective seasons, and only the characters would have to have been exchanged.

The worst yet, by far.

Awful.

#10 of 34 OFFLINE   Jason Seaver

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Posted April 25 2002 - 05:25 AM

Quote:
The Problem:

"Story by Rick Berman and Brannon Braga."

They really ought to make "Executive Producer of Star Trek" an elected position. I know I'd vote for the Moore/Behr ticket over this one any day. (I'm assuming some sort of TV experience would be necessary, so the Seaver ticket is out Posted Image)

It's getting frustrating, though. I wouldn't call "Detained" a bad episode, really, but it's just so machinelike. I've seen this before, and if this is all the B's have got, I'm really afraid that "Enterprise" could be merely the fourth-best itinerant-spaceship show on the air come fall, as "Farscape" continues to knock it out of the park, "Andrommeda" falls from great to merely good post-Wolfe, and "Firefly" at least starts out with something "Enterprise" sorely lacks - a sharp guy with an active imagination at the helm.
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#11 of 34 OFFLINE   Rex Bachmann

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Posted April 25 2002 - 05:32 AM

Mark Turetsky wrote:

Quote:
But one of the conceits of Star Trek has always been that aliens look more human than not.


That's not a "conceit"; that's a budget constraint, as others have pointed out. The producers' "conceit" has been that, no matter what "we" look like on the surface, "we're all human under the skin". May work on Earth, but out there??? Not likely. (Remember Azetbur's objection to use of the term "inalienable human rights" in The Undiscovered Country?)

Nelson Au wrote:

Quote:
Species 8479 or whatever their number was were cool to look at and they moved around pretty well, but they just didn't emote as well as human actors.


That was "Species 8472", and (originally) it wasn't supposed to emote as well as---or actually at all like---human actors. That was the point! That's one of things that convinces you they're actually ALIEN, not just human beings in make-up and funny clothes. But then the "conceit" (see above) set in and they had to be "humanized".

First rule of writing monster-stories is you never take the monster's point of view. But, in the ST universe, as we all know, there are no monsters. (" 'We're all human under the skin.' Keep repeating that to yourself." Comfort.)
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#12 of 34 OFFLINE   PhilipG

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Posted April 25 2002 - 08:22 AM

Well, it was a pretty poor episode, and a real waste of Dean Stockwell. He should have been a Starfleet admiral, perhaps like Ronny Cox's character in the excellent Chain of Command. Also a waste of a QL reunion. Couldn't Scott Bakula have adlibed one "Oh boy" as he woke up in the alien cell? That would have made the episode worthwhile. Posted Image

Quote:
I know I'd vote for the Moore/Behr ticket over this one any day

Absolutely.

#13 of 34 OFFLINE   Jason Borchers

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Posted April 25 2002 - 09:44 AM

I think "Detained" can be summed up in one word:

Boring.

Another tired and predictable episode. "Where everyone has gone before," in other words. An allegory to human history? An alien race revealed to be "just as human as us"? Haven't we seen this same crap hundreds of times before?

As of last night, the Suliban are no longer interesting. Once again, holier-than-thou Janewa-- er, I mean Archer -- interferes with an alien society he doesn't agree with. Dean Stockwell shows up, only to do nothing.

I don't know how much more of this I can take. Posted Image

#14 of 34 OFFLINE   Frank Anderson

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Posted April 25 2002 - 09:44 AM

I really didn't want to add my two cents but I think it was a pretty stupid episode. What a waste of a Dean Stockwell appearance. Have to agree with Jack, the story was ruined because "Story by Rick Berman and Brannon Braga"

#15 of 34 OFFLINE   Will_B

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Posted April 25 2002 - 01:53 PM

What do you want to bet this was in fact a leftover script from Voyager? That explains why it was a "story idea by Berman/Braga".

Also it explains why the dialogue seemed to be suited to Voyager characters, and why the universal translator was not needed, why the transporter was used as if it was normal to use, and why there was no particular interest on the part of Archer in learning anything about the Suliban species, beyond that some of them are nice.

This was a leftover Voyager script.
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#16 of 34 OFFLINE   Ric Easton

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Posted April 25 2002 - 04:38 PM

Maybe the aliens had univeral translators, after all its not like they didn't have a chance to get a hold of Earth's language, since they had been checking up on Archer's exploits. I think you nitpickers are being a little harsh. There hasn't been a Star Trek series since the original that didn't have at least one season of growing pains.

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#17 of 34 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted April 25 2002 - 06:37 PM

Yup, Behr proved w/DS9 that he could do it RIGHT

I'm more pissed at the total absense of Quantum Leap jokes. The PADD didn't even malfunction!

#18 of 34 OFFLINE   Jack Briggs

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Posted April 26 2002 - 05:34 AM

Ric: I've been defending Enterprise mostly on the notion of "growing pains" ever since the series premiered. It had been, largely, off to the best of any Trek since TOS. But this most recent block of new episodes conjures up unpleasant memories of Voyager, which nearly brought the entire franchise down. JB

#19 of 34 OFFLINE   DougWright

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Posted April 26 2002 - 04:39 PM

Man, we do love to eat our young don't we?

Regardless, I bet we see 7 seasons. Any takers?

I am also glad that they started Enterprise in widescreen, that is one definite positive.
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#20 of 34 OFFLINE   Chris

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Posted April 26 2002 - 06:24 PM

We'll see seven seasons because the ratings are far better then Voyager even at it's peak (to answer the question above)

The last few eps have not been as good as it could have been, but now that I have the TNG Season 1 box set.. well, it could be worse Posted Image

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