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Johnny Angell

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Last year when our old Prius was totaled in an accident, we used CR to help determine a good price. I configured the car with CR and got a "Target Price" to aim for. The amount seemed ok and I was able to get it or better.


For some inexplicable reason I started to goof off with the TrueCar app and then got an email from CR and CR now appears to be using TrueCar.


When we bought the new Prius last year, CR sent my info to a dealer who contacted me. I was a little uncomfortable with the close relationship between CR and the dealer, but it seemed to work. Now CR is letting TrueCar do the work. They give you a "guaranteed" price, not a target price.


They are pushing me towards a 2014 and show only one "certified" dealer, though the name of the dealer is not revealed to me yet. When I select a 2015, then they show a dealer over 100 miles away.


We have a 2003 Honda CRV that has near 100K on it, so replacing it is not out of the question.


Anyone have any experience with TrueCar or with another pricing service?


The car I have been looking at is the Prius V.
 

Dheiner

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I have ZERO PROOF, but I suspect that dealers, and/or manufacturers have long since co-opted the pricing websites.


I am back to fighting with dealerships, and salespeople to get good deals. I'm not happy until I've walked out of at least one dealership.
 

macfan601

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I find Consumer Reports to be a very biased publication. They very seldom recommend an American vehicle. They have done several articles stating that they can not recommend the 2014-2015 Jeep Cherokee yet the 2014 Jeep Cherokee I custom ordered is the best vehicle I have ever owned in my 64 years. The problem with CR is that they only take their ratings from their own subscribers which tend to be upper income, conservative people. This group of people is not mainstream America. As an example, my Jeep Cherokee will never ride/perform like a Lexus as it wasn't designed/built to be one. On the other hand the Lexus will never do off roading like my Jeep Cherokee will as it was designed to be a highway/mall cruiser. I don't know anything about True Car except that I hate their TV commercials. I know I personally enjoy/like to do my own negotiating for a vehicle.
 

schan1269

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I've never not been able to beat an "online fair price" at a dealer.

My loaded 2015 Forester Touring(non-turbo) was custom ordered in a color combo the Touring is not offered in(the lower Limited is offered in the two colors I chose...but stupidly, not together).

I beat the online price, on a special order no less, by $2800.
 

DaveF

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macfan601 said:
I find Consumer Reports to be a very biased publication. They very seldom recommend an American vehicle.
I'm looking at the 2015 recommendations magazine:
Compact: Chevy Volt, Mazda3 (2/10 reccos)
Hatchbacks: Mazda 3, Corvette, Chevy Volt (1/3 of reccos)
Sedans: Chevrolet Malibu, Ford Fusion (2/7 of recess)
Large: Buick LaCrosse (2/6 reccos)

"American" cars aren't the majority of the recommendations, and CR doesn't recommend any US SUVs. But US cars are recommended and praised.

The problem with car buying, for me, is that CR is about the only data source there is outside dealership. Even imperfect, I don't know where else to get as much useful information as CR provides.

Conversely: if there's a better source of recommendations for cars for a middle-class buy than CR, I want to know. I'm no longer an especial fan of CR, but I still give their car rankings a lot of weight.
 

Paul D G

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When I bought my car last spring I went through Costco Auto. Basically, going through the site to get a certificate gets you $3000 off the list price. You don't get to chose the dealer they send you to, but when I went to my nearest dealer they told me as long has I had the printout they would honor it. And they did.


(side story : until I fired them after losing four chosen cars in three days. meanwhile the dealership recommended by costco called just seconds later and had not only the car i wanted in stock, it had more features and was cheaper)
 

Aaron Silverman

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DaveF said:
The problem with car buying, for me, is that CR is about the only data source there is outside dealership. Even imperfect, I don't know where else to get as much useful information as CR provides.

Conversely: if there's a better source of recommendations for cars for a middle-class buy than CR, I want to know. I'm no longer an especial fan of CR, but I still give their car rankings a lot of weight.

The US News car rankings site is nice. It amalgamates reviews from other sites. Edmunds.com also has good information.
 

Johnny Angell

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There is no Costco in Little Rock (or in Arkansas, I don't believe). Could they still do me any good?
 

Paul D G

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No Costco? I would have thought they were nationwide. I would suggest asking the dealer what car buying programs they're affiliated with. The first dealer I worked with offered up Costco Auto when I took a test drive. I hadn't mentioned I was looking at any programs at all.
 

Johnny Angell

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Paul D G said:
No Costco? I would have thought they were nationwide. I would suggest asking the dealer what car buying programs they're affiliated with. The first dealer I worked with offered up Costco Auto when I took a test drive. I hadn't mentioned I was looking at any programs at all.
This is Walmart and Sam's Club country, sir. I think it's in the state constitution that Costco isn't allowed. :)
 
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DaveF said:
I'm looking at the 2015 recommendations magazine:
Compact: Chevy Volt, Mazda3 (2/10 reccos)
Hatchbacks: Mazda 3, Corvette, Chevy Volt (1/3 of reccos)
Sedans: Chevrolet Malibu, Ford Fusion (2/7 of recess)
Large: Buick LaCrosse (2/6 reccos)

"American" cars aren't the majority of the recommendations, and CR doesn't recommend any US SUVs. But US cars are recommended and praised.

The problem with car buying, for me, is that CR is about the only data source there is outside dealership. Even imperfect, I don't know where else to get as much useful information as CR provides.

Conversely: if there's a better source of recommendations for cars for a middle-class buy than CR, I want to know. I'm no longer an especial fan of CR, but I still give their car rankings a lot of weight.
I like to use JD Power autos in addition to CR. It also rates cars on dependability and build quality.
 

schan1269

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Paul D G said:
No Costco? I would have thought they were nationwide. I would suggest asking the dealer what car buying programs they're affiliated with. The first dealer I worked with offered up Costco Auto when I took a test drive. I hadn't mentioned I was looking at any programs at all.
That is typically a sales person tactic lately. Then they don't need to negotiate...and you think you are getting a deal.

By the way...sales "reports on sold prices" are only sent when used in conjunction with the "people think they are getting a deal, and really aren't" web price sites.

The dealer I bought the Forester from tried to offer TrueCar. I said no thanks.

I simply took the option sheet, with prices, went down the list.

If an option was $630, I added $475.

The eyesight I added in $1500 for whole package(upgraded radio/nav)

Once I was done...

"You are throwing in a set of Blizzak, the moonroof windscreen and STi floor mats."

Wrote a check.

It is often easier to get a deal when you are financing through the dealer as well. Often the banks they send off to kick in another $500-$1000 as incentive to get the dealer to push their loan.

The dealer is REQUIRED to show you all loans. The first one you get shown is often the one with the biggest kick back.
 

Mark Booth

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I have a friend that works at a car dealership. They love the Costco Auto program because people don't haggle over the Costco price and that price is always higher than the dealership can actually go when dealing with a savy buyer.

Always ask to see the invoice (not window sticker, the invoice price) and negotiate starting BELOW that price.

Mark
 

Bryan^H

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One thing I hate about buying a new car is the guilt trip options(not the vehicle itself, but the protection plans)they push on you. They want 80-100% at the dealership for customer satisfaction as this is very important to them. Yet, they push the add ons unmercifully. I couldn't get out of the true coat because I was sort of interested...well when the salesman knew that he buttoned it up in record time. 2 hours I'm waiting at the dealership signing and waiting, but that little $800 beauty went through in about less than 10 seconds. Then the interior/tire protection at an extra $1200. That I refused to get. You'd think I was committing a crime the guilt that lady put on me. I could sense that it was a big part of her job/commission, so I did feel bad.

Anyway I walked out of there with the vehicle I wanted.
 

Mike Boone

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macfan601 said:
I find Consumer Reports to be a very biased publication. They very seldom recommend an American vehicle. They have done several articles stating that they can not recommend the 2014-2015 Jeep Cherokee yet the 2014 Jeep Cherokee I custom ordered is the best vehicle I have ever owned in my 64 years. The problem with CR is that they only take their ratings from their own subscribers which tend to be upper income, conservative people. This group of people is not mainstream America. As an example, my Jeep Cherokee will never ride/perform like a Lexus as it wasn't designed/built to be one. On the other hand the Lexus will never do off roading like my Jeep Cherokee will as it was designed to be a highway/mall cruiser. I don't know anything about True Car except that I hate their TV commercials. I know I personally enjoy/like to do my own negotiating for a vehicle.

My 38 year old stepson buys, sells and repairs cars, as well as selling car parts, for a living. He has personally owned and driven at least 80 cars in the last 8 to 10 years. He considers American cars to be junk compared to the Japanese brands Subaru, Honda, and Toyota, and I sure agree with him. The frequency of repair records published in Consumer Reports that give such stellar scores to those Japanese car manufacturers, not only back up our personal experience, but really carry weight because they are based on the reported experiences of almost 1 million readers of CR. Thats a sample size that is hundreds of times larger than any of the political polls that do a good job in gauging public support for a Presidential candidate.


Almost 2 years ago (May 2013) we bought a 2005 Subaru Forester off a used car lot after my stepson had found it on the internet. The car had 161,000

miles on it when we bought it, and now has 186,000 miles. Besides oil changes, the only money we have had to spend maintaining the car is replacing the muffler and one pipe.


Good luck trying to duplicate this excellent experience with equally high mileage Fords, or the relatively crappy cars that GM tends to stamp out.


My wife's sister is married to a good guy who has worked as a parts manager at a large Ford dealer, for more than 35 years. Everyone in his large family buys Fords to take advantage of the substantial discount that "Pop" secures for them. As my wife and I continue to drive our 2011 Toyota Camry and 2005 Subaru Forester, without problems, we politely keep our mouths shut as the family of my wife's sister talks about the multiplicity of problems they have experienced, and are experiencing, with Ford products. And I'm talking about cars that are mostly only months to a few years old. My wife's oldest nephew recently had to put up with driving a loaner for 4 weeks, because his less than 2 year old Ford had a part that was part of a production run of cars with that defective part. So a lot of other cars were brought to the dealer with the same problem that he had. And there was also some kind of bureaucratic tie-up between Ford and its dealer, that also didn't help to quickly address the situation.


Back in the day, when I worked in a Firestone tire plant, here in NE Ohio, many guys who drove Japanese cars were repeatedly derided, even called traitors, by many fellow workers, who basically thought that "good Americans" had a duty to support about anything that Detroit felt like stamping out. And guys with Japanese, or other foreign cars, sometimes discovered that their cars had been vandalized in the factory parking lot.


But now, I sure get a kick out of observing that some of the people who were the loudest in taunting owners of Japanese cars, are now driving Toyotas or Hondas, themselves. That makes a stronger, clearer point, than anything else I could add.


Anyway, until there's solid evidence that American car manufacturers have fully addressed their quality problems, I'll remain about as likely to buy an American car, as I am to shop for home theater equipment at K-Mart.
 

schan1269

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Mike Boone said:
My 38 year old stepson buys, sells and repairs cars, as well as selling car parts, for a living. He has personally owned and driven at least 80 cars in the last 8 to 10 years. He considers American cars to be junk compared to the Japanese brands Subaru, Honda, and Toyota, and I sure agree with him. The frequency of repair records published in Consumer Reports that give such stellar scores to those Japanese car manufacturers, not only back up our personal experience, but really carry weight because they are based on the reported experiences of almost 1 million readers of CR. Thats a sample size that is hundreds of times larger than any of the political polls that do a good job in gauging public support for a Presidential candidate.

Almost 2 years ago (May 2013) we bought a 2005 Subaru Forester off a used car lot after my stepson had found it on the internet. The car had 161,000
miles on it when we bought it, and now has 186,000 miles. Besides oil changes, the only money we have had to spend maintaining the car is replacing the muffler and one pipe.

Good luck trying to duplicate this excellent experience with equally high mileage Fords, or the relatively crappy cars that GM tends to stamp out.

My wife's sister is married to a good guy who has worked as a parts manager at a large Ford dealer, for more than 35 years. Everyone in his large family buys Fords to take advantage of the substantial discount that "Pop" secures for them. As my wife and I continue to drive our 2011 Toyota Camry and 2005 Subaru Forester, without problems, we politely keep our mouths shut as the family of my wife's sister talks about the multiplicity of problems they have experienced, and are experiencing, with Ford products. And I'm talking about cars that are mostly only months to a few years old. My wife's oldest nephew recently had to put up with driving a loaner for 4 weeks, because his less than 2 year old Ford had a part that was part of a production run of cars with that defective part. So a lot of other cars were brought to the dealer with the same problem that he had. And there was also some kind of bureaucratic tie-up between Ford and its dealer, that also didn't help to quickly address the situation.

Back in the day, when I worked in a Firestone tire plant, here in NE Ohio, many guys who drove Japanese cars were repeatedly derided, even called traitors, by many fellow workers, who basically thought that "good Americans" had a duty to support about anything that Detroit felt like stamping out. And guys with Japanese, or other foreign cars, sometimes discovered that their cars had been vandalized in the factory parking lot.

But now, I sure get a kick out of observing that some of the people who were the loudest in taunting owners of Japanese cars, are now driving Toyotas or Hondas, themselves. That makes a stronger, clearer point, than anything else I could add.

Anyway, until there's solid evidence that American car manufacturers have fully addressed their quality problems, I'll remain about as likely to buy an American car, as I am to shop for home theater equipment at K-Mart.
1989 Taurus SHO. 276,000. Routine maintenance only.

1997 F250 diesel. 1,313,896(as of yesterday). Motor was rebuilt at 750,000. Next reman when it hits 1,500,000. Transmission has not been touched(fluid changed every 100k).

1989 Chevy Astro. 1,240,000. 5 motors, 3 transmissions. All motors have been used. Two of the motors were in quick succession. One barely made it 40k(which when I drove for a living, was about 4 months).

Had 3 different full size vans. All 1 ton(1 gas GM, 2 diesel ford). All made it beyond 400k(two retired from being in an accident) and sold the third one at 850,000.

Yeah. American stuff doesn't last.

Japanese stuff is better?

Tell that to friends of mine that own Camry and Altima shop queens.

It is how you take care of a car. Not the car itself(granted...everybody makes lemon now and again...even Mercedes).
 

Aaron Silverman

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There are lemons and long-timers across all brands. The question is what are your chances of getting one or the other in a particular brand.
 

macfan601

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I am just going to throw this out. I had custom built for me a 2014 Jeep Cherokee Limited ADII 3.2L. It was Delivered 11/13. CR said they could not recommend it. I am 64 years old and it has been the best vehicle I have ever bought/owned. The vehicle I owned before that was a 2000 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS. Same thing. CR said they could not recommend it. The Monte Carlo was 15 years old when I sold it to a college kid and it is still going strong. I pretty much buy what CR won't recommend. Not only do I find them to be great vehicles but I get great deals on them because of the negative CR publicity. And sorry foreign vehicle fans but you couldn't pay me enough to drive a foreign vehicle. I have never driven or for that matter even ridden in a foreign vehicle in my 64 years. To be honest I don't personally know anyone who owns a foreign vehicle. I just looked up and down the road in my subdivision. Not a foreign vehicle to be seen. I do know this. The demand for Jeeps is so great right now the plants are working overtime and dealers can not keep them in stock. Seems like people are not paying any attention to the fact that CR is calling them junk. Just for fun check out the resale on a used Jeep Wrangler. It sure beats any rice burner.
 

schan1269

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macfan601 said:
I am just going to throw this out. I had custom built for me a 2014 Jeep Cherokee Limited ADII 3.2L. It was Delivered 11/13. CR said they could not recommend it. I am 64 years old and it has been the best vehicle I have ever bought/owned. The vehicle I owned before that was a 2000 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS. Same thing. CR said they could not recommend it. The Monte Carlo was 15 years old when I sold it to a college kid and it is still going strong. I pretty much buy what CR won't recommend. Not only do I find them to be great vehicles but I get great deals on them because of the negative CR publicity. And sorry foreign vehicle fans but you couldn't pay me enough to drive a foreign vehicle. I have never driven or for that matter even ridden in a foreign vehicle in my 64 years. To be honest I don't personally know anyone who owns a foreign vehicle. I just looked up and down the road in my subdivision. Not a foreign vehicle to be seen. I do know this. The demand for Jeeps is so great right now the plants are working overtime and dealers can not keep them in stock. Seems like people are not paying any attention to the fact that CR is calling them junk. Just for fun check out the resale on a used Jeep Wrangler. It sure beats any rice burner.
Your Jeep Cherokee is 100% FIAT.

It is essentially the "Dart wagon"...

Just like the Ford Escape is the "Focus wagon"
 

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