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TV shows and TV movies gone W I D E


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#341 of 357 OFFLINE   Simon Massey

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Posted June 11 2014 - 07:37 AM

See I'm afraid you keep missing the point being made - you keep talking about how it doesn't "fit nicely" or it looks wrong - that is a statement of opinion not fact. I'm not even stating what the show should look like or what the "rule" should be - I'm stating that the intentions of the filmmakers is the only rule that matters REGARDLESS of how it looks!! Now I realise we can't always establish that given some shows are older or memories may be a bit hazy, but the least we can do is stop stating things as "fact" when they are not and take each case on its merits. If you have comments from people involved that state widescreen was intended fine, but throwing up screenshots saying look how good it looks and referring to limited cinema releases of some of these episodes as factual evidence is at best misleading and undoing the whole point of what OAR is about. The word "widescreen" is itself a word conjured up to help sell 16:9 OAR on TVs and educate the wider public on OAR in an easier to understand way, but unfortunately it is now having the opposite effect for TV releases and I'm afraid misleading comments like your own don' t help
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#342 of 357 OFFLINE   Simon Massey

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Posted June 11 2014 - 07:41 AM

And yes I completely understand why recent TV was shot the way it was, I disagree with you on what should be done about it. So if the techs didn't care about widescreen and the filmmakers clearly didn't seem that bothered about protecting for it ( and certainly wouldn't be shooting for it or they would surely have done another take) then 4x3 makes sense to me

#343 of 357 OFFLINE   HDvision

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Posted October 16 2014 - 12:42 AM

Added Duel (1971) to the TV movies section (see first post)

 

Some comparisons between the old 4/3 DVD and the widescreen Blu-ray on DVDbeaver here

 

http://www.dvdbeaver...uel_blu-ray.htm



#344 of 357 OFFLINE   Simon Massey

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Posted October 16 2014 - 04:49 AM

Duel is an interesting case especially since it is early Spielberg. Anyone know the history of the framing of
This one ?

#345 of 357 OFFLINE   Everett Stallings

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Posted October 17 2014 - 11:22 PM

Oh the horror, think of the hours they spent moaning and complaining about not being able to shoot in widescreen because we really can't compose shots any other way. And while we are at it someone really needs to reframe Casablanca, The Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind because Im sure they would have preferred widescreen too, especially Gone with the Wind with it being labelled an "epic" and surely benefiting those beautiful vistas and scenery they show.

And we really need some windows in those rooms in Star Trek so we can see outside. They would have done that you know if they could have afforded it in the 60s.

On a serious note.

For once, Im lost for words... Really ????.... Someone needs to tell the makers of The Artist that their format is not a valid format!!! And while they are at it, they need to colour it too..

Trouble is you aren't getting many artists or directors actually saying that!!!!. Is there a Star Trek director or cinematographer stating their preferred AR is widescreen for their particular episode? If you actually read this thread you would find that the intention of the director/filmmakers are in fact the most important and I would happily concede a widescreen release if they state this was intended and they shot for this. I suspect even in this case, most filmmakers would welcome a dual release because fortunately most of them do actually recognise the value of framing. Two excellent example for this are Cameron's Titanic ( he had the sense to release both and by the way since he uses Super 35 there is more of Terminator 2 at the top and bottom so we should see a full frame of this ASAP) and Apted's Voyage of the Dawn Treader where the director changed the AR for Bluray, a decision I personally did not like since it was 2.35 for cinema, but accept it as a directorial decision at th


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#346 of 357 OFFLINE   Everett Stallings

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Posted October 17 2014 - 11:48 PM

Really ?? Why ?? Im sure if Orson Welles had widescreen formats available to him when Citizen Kane was made or colour was more prevalent, he would surely have used these capabilities. I'm surprised you don't want a colorised 2.35:1 version of Citizen Kane or Casablanca. They were after all limited by the mindset and technology of the day. Colour was even around in those days - perhaps Welles made Kane with a view to being able to colourise it in the future if it took off.

A color print cost about $400.00 more per print. Ticket prices were about 50 cents per adult.


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#347 of 357 OFFLINE   HDvision

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Posted October 18 2014 - 12:03 AM

This thread isn't about discussing changing the original aspect ratio of films (there's enough people in charge at major companies doing a mess of that already), it's about TV shows and TV movies. Same rules don't apply.



#348 of 357 OFFLINE   Simon Massey

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Posted October 20 2014 - 07:27 AM

Seems to me from what I have read that Duel should be 4:3 though I assume also there should be two cuts a 4:3 TV version and a 16:9 theatrical version. In any event, Im surprised there isn't a 4:3 version as I think the way Spielberg composed the shots originally makes the truck look far more threatening when in 4:3 IMO.



#349 of 357 ONLINE   Vic Pardo

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Posted October 21 2014 - 07:01 AM

I posted this in the Aspect Ratio Documentation/Blu-ray thread and it was suggested that I put it here, so here are some questions I have about TV shows released theatrically. If these questions were answered on any of the previous 17 pages, I'm sorry. If not, help me out here. Thanks:

 

Lots of TV shows were released theatrically in movie form, most notably, several episodes of "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." Were they cropped? Were they filmed with theatrical release in mind? A couple of early episodes which were one-hour long on TV were released in feature-length theatrical versions around 1966, so they must have had extra footage ready. Were they filmed with that idea in mind? What's the proper OAR in these cases? When I saw these films in theaters, I wasn't yet knowledgeable about aspect ratio at the time so I didn't notice. (My earliest memory of noticing cropping of Academy ratio in theatrical screenings was when a compilation of Three Stooges shorts got released in the early 1970s. And then ANIMAL CRACKERS in 1974.)

 

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#350 of 357 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted October 21 2014 - 07:55 AM

Lots of TV shows were released theatrically in movie form, most notably, several episodes of "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." Were they cropped? Were they filmed with theatrical release in mind?

That's certainly a hotly debated topic in this thread but I doubt there's any definitive documentation either way. Personally, I think that nearly all TV shows until about the early 2000's would have been composed for the 4x3 frame because everyone involved with the production would have known that 4x3 was the primary (and maybe the only) way that the show would ever be seen.



#351 of 357 OFFLINE   Harry-N

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Posted October 21 2014 - 08:00 AM

I can't say for sure, but I've read that some TV pilots were filmed with the idea of theatrical releases overseas to help offset costs associated with those pilots. I would think that at least SOME consideration might have been given to the aspect ratio during those filmings.

 

Here's a quote from THE TIME TUNNEL: A HISTORY OF THE TELEVISION PROGRAM by Martin Grams, Jr., regarding the pilot and the now-missing Dennis Hopper scenes:

 

"On December 22, Dennis Hopper began a wardrobe test for the role of Tabor, a role that would ultimately end up on the cutting room floor, even though his role was substantial through the pilot film. Had the pilot not sold, Hopper's scenes would probably have made it to the finished film as the entire feature would have been released theatrically."

 

As a test, I've played the pilot cropped to 1.78:1 on my TV and it doesn't look too bad. The worst examples from the cropping are a few tops-of-heads that don't show:

 

00_Cropped.jpg

 

...but most of the time the composition looks quite acceptable.

 

Harry


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#352 of 357 OFFLINE   HDvision

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Posted October 21 2014 - 08:03 AM

That Time Tunnel transfer is probably zoomboxed.

 

There's no way, apart from rare examples, that TV shows would be composed for 4/3 only. 4/3 for films was gone since 1953.

 

Network news, regular talk shows yes, of course, were 4/3. But they were not films. Or mini-films as all these shows were.


Edited by HDvision, October 21 2014 - 08:03 AM.


#353 of 357 OFFLINE   Simon Massey

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Posted October 21 2014 - 08:07 AM

There's no way, apart from rare examples, that TV shows would be composed for 4/3 only. 4/3 for films was gone since 1953.

 

Network news, regular talk shows yes, of course, were 4/3. But they were not films. Or mini-films as all these shows were.

 

Disagree, in fact the opposite - there is no way TV shows in general would be composed for anything other than 4/3. 4/3 for TV shows was still around by 2000.

 

You can't compose for two ratios IMO - you can compose for one ratio and protect for the other which is a big difference.


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#354 of 357 OFFLINE   Harry-N

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Posted October 21 2014 - 08:59 AM

That Time Tunnel transfer is probably zoomboxed

 

 

 

I said it was when I mentioned, "I've played the pilot cropped to 1.78:1 on my TV ..." To my knowledge it's never been released in 16x9 anywhere, but using the zoom function on my TV, I get that image.


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#355 of 357 OFFLINE   HDvision

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Posted October 21 2014 - 11:32 AM

No harm intended in my comment. The top of the head cut off is probably the slight zoomboxing :)


Edited by HDvision, October 21 2014 - 11:32 AM.


#356 of 357 OFFLINE   HDvision

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Posted October 23 2014 - 10:11 AM

More X-Files HDTV to DVD comparisons from user Chip75

 

 

1x79 'Pilot' DVD to HDTV Comparisons

 

vFgbsPy.jpg

 

2x02 'The Host 'DVD to HDTV Comparisons

 

iKnixxs.jpg

 

2x03 'Blood' DVD to HDTV Comparisons

PPdKu4w.jpg

 

2x04 'Sleepless' DVD to HDTV Comparisons

rKt3BB3.jpg

 



#357 of 357 OFFLINE   HDvision

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Posted October 23 2014 - 10:13 AM

And more, more, more!

 

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