Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.


Photo
- - - - -

THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
443 replies to this topic

#41 of 444 OFFLINE   Sam Favate

Sam Favate

    Producer



  • 5,354 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 03 2004
  • Real Name:Sam Favate

Posted January 13 2009 - 11:49 PM

I suspect that if S.2, V.2 doesn't sell well (and the studio probably has lowered expectations for it as well), that will be the end of Fugitive releases. Not suggesting people buy an altered set to get more (altered) sets for the remaining seasons, just pointing out that I think bad sales this time will kill the DVD sets. Very sad that one of the great shows in TV history would be treated so badly.

#42 of 444 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

Jeff Willis

    Producer



  • 3,387 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 01 2005
  • LocationDallas TX

Posted January 14 2009 - 02:17 AM

Sam, I think you're right about the future of the altered Fugitive releases. When the story (altered score) first broke here, my initial thought was that it would turn out to be more "smoke than fire" as far as as impacting sales #'s of the series. Since we don't have access to the #'s I'm just guessing here but I think that due to the publicity the story generated, it had a significant impact on sales of S2V1 & probably will have the same effect with V2. Since this all happened, I had a hard time, even given the altered score, to wish for low sales and for CBS/P to discontinue the releases. After comparing many episodes with & without the original score, it's an easy call for me now. Bob, just another guess here, but I'd think that there will be very few online pre-orders for S2V2 before an online review is posted. Fans of the show have been widely informed about the altered music at this point in time. The curious thing to me is, how many sales #'s for S2V1 came from B&M sales and/or consumers that were unaware of the altered score? How many sales were made by the weekend-shopper consumers that remembered the show as a nostalgic memory and have not previously seen the episodes in syndication over the years? How many came from blind-buyers?
Sam, that sums it up for what I believe is almost everyone that's posted in the Fugitive threads. As far as the altered episodes appearing on various broadcast carriers, I admit that it surprises me somewhat given the speed of airing the altered versions of the series shortly after DVD release.

ml1fyo.jpg  "Checkmate King Two, 'Out'" "Combat! A Selmur Production"

 

TV/DVD Collector, mainly 50's thru 90's with a few 2000+ shows.
My 2 all-time favorite TV shows:
"Combat!" & "The Fugitive"
My 2 all-time best blind-buys: "The Fugitive"   "The Donna Reed Show"


#43 of 444 OFFLINE   jdee28

jdee28

    Screenwriter



  • 1,013 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 14 2006

Posted January 14 2009 - 02:45 AM

I can't believe they are airing The Fugitive Season 2 in syndication with the new scores. I guess cost-cutting, penny pinching CBS/Paramount is too stingy to do two digital masters for the episodes, one for DVD, the other for TV; the one for DVD will stand. It's a travesty; can you imagine classic movies televised this way? CBS/Paramount shows absolutely no respect to classic television whatsoever.

#44 of 444 OFFLINE   TheGreatOz

TheGreatOz

    Second Unit



  • 399 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 13 2007

Posted January 14 2009 - 03:10 AM

I suspect that the neurosis over Season 2 music rights also spread to legal worry over syndication rights of the music for Season 2.

On the other hand, CBS/P might be exposing TV audiences to the Heyes music in an attempt to "mainstream" it...so it matches what buyers of the DVDs will hear. Posted Image

Sadly, if love of the the Rugolo music is bred out of future generations of viewers, we posters here are going to become known as those "old geezer purists." Posted Image
Pay no attention to that cat behind the curtain!

#45 of 444 OFFLINE   TravisR

TravisR

    Studio Mogul



  • 23,771 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 15 2004
  • LocationThe basement of the FBI building

Posted January 14 2009 - 04:28 AM

Exactly. It's not penny pinching or arrogance (which makes no sense), it's the fear of lawsuit. Whether that fear is real or not.

#46 of 444 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

Jeff Willis

    Producer



  • 3,387 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 01 2005
  • LocationDallas TX

Posted January 14 2009 - 05:16 AM

I don't know....maybe it's just me, but I think that most TV/DVD sets are viewed as "This stuff was on free TV once. As long as we can buy the DVD set we won't know the difference" (edited eps, music, time-compression, etc). The collectors here that will identify edits in the DVD releases are a small online community. I wish it were otherwise. As for CBS/P, I have tried to look at the overall picture with their other TV releases....Mission:Impossible, Wild Wild West, Rawhide, etc. As we remember here, CBS/P stated that, given a choice of leaving the Fugitive vaulted due to (presumed) Capitol Music clearance issues or continuing with the show's release using a different score, they chose to go the "release" route. If I'd been a CBS/P employee at the time this was discussed, and had no knowlege of the Fugitive TV series, I could understand how the decision was made to go that route. I didnt agree with it but that's me. If I could have. I'd have picked any one of about 1000 shows instead of the Fugitive to get an altered score. To me, all of this is an unfortunate part of being a TV/DVD collector of the older shows.

ml1fyo.jpg  "Checkmate King Two, 'Out'" "Combat! A Selmur Production"

 

TV/DVD Collector, mainly 50's thru 90's with a few 2000+ shows.
My 2 all-time favorite TV shows:
"Combat!" & "The Fugitive"
My 2 all-time best blind-buys: "The Fugitive"   "The Donna Reed Show"


#47 of 444 OFFLINE   TheGreatOz

TheGreatOz

    Second Unit



  • 399 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 13 2007

Posted January 14 2009 - 05:43 AM

The music rights to television shows are much more narrow when measured against motion picture music rights. Music has been edited from TV shows on VHS/DVD because the original agreements were for 'one-time/one-rerun' use only. Movies were acknowledged up front to be screened over and over again and, therefore, rights assigned accordingly, even before the advent of home video. When TV shows found their way to home video, a whole new can of worms opened up. [legal term]

National Geographic Magazine published their entire run from the first issue to 1999/2000 on CD-ROM. However, subsequent digital years of the magazine were brought to a grinding halt by a couple of photographers who sued...claiming their photos were intended for one-time-print publication ONLY. NGM has been fighting this one vigorously through the courts. Hopefully, they'll prevail, because my basement is a firetrap with back issues awaiting the recycle truck when the digital versions are published.

I repeat what I said earlier, which Jeff expands: we're just a handful of online Fugitive "geezer purists." I'm probably the oldest poster here, so I speak for myself as being a 'geezer.' Posted Image

Future generations won't give a fig who Maestro Rugolo was. Posted Image
Pay no attention to that cat behind the curtain!

#48 of 444 OFFLINE   Harry-N

Harry-N

    Screenwriter



  • 2,418 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 09 2003
  • Real Name:Harry N.
  • LocationSunny Central Florida

Posted January 14 2009 - 06:41 AM

Geezer here too, born in the later Truman administration, so do the math. Future generations might actually get to hear the correct Rugolo score - assuming they haven't been destroyed. It WILL HAPPEN that those future generations will realize what a treasure THE FUGITIVE is and some "scholar" will dig through the archives and find that the music has been tampered with due to some archaic music rights issues. Restorations will occur in whatever new medium there is in that future time, and Mr. Rugolo's glorious strains will finally be heard. No - it's just us "geezers" that will be denied those glories. Harry
My DVD Collection

A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#49 of 444 OFFLINE   TheGreatOz

TheGreatOz

    Second Unit



  • 399 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 13 2007

Posted January 14 2009 - 06:51 AM

My Profile reveals my geezerhood. Posted Image But you and I and others of our general age can revel in the fact we watched most of these shows on TV with all the original Rugolo theme/stingers burning into our memories as broadcast. Posted Image

I stopped buying Married With Children seasons when they exorcised Frank's "Love & Marriage" from the show opens.

We narrow-minded purist collectors are a strange breed. Posted Image
Pay no attention to that cat behind the curtain!

#50 of 444 OFFLINE   Carabimero

Carabimero

    Screenwriter



  • 1,838 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 09 2008
  • Real Name:Alan
  • LocationLos Angeles

Posted January 14 2009 - 08:40 AM

I wonder what doing a boxed set of half a series (two seasons out of four) means? That they're releasing no more so here's the boxed set? How uncommon is it to release a box set when you're only half finished with the run of a series? By the way, I'm truly bummed that Patrick McGoohan died. He was probably my favorite living actor.

books   

 

 


#51 of 444 OFFLINE   TheGreatOz

TheGreatOz

    Second Unit



  • 399 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 13 2007

Posted January 14 2009 - 10:03 AM

Yes, Prisoner Number Six. He turned down the role of The Saint (picked up by Roger Moore) and the role of James Bond. He would have been great in both! Posted Image
Pay no attention to that cat behind the curtain!

#52 of 444 OFFLINE   BobSchneider

BobSchneider

    Second Unit



  • 421 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 15 2005

Posted January 14 2009 - 03:57 PM




Look Im happy to run the risk of being called a purist I would not have bought Hawaii Five 0 , wild wild west or mission impossible if the signature scores had been striped, the shows simplely wouldn't be the same without the music. Its a no go for me, do it right or not at all, I've great saying a Job done half arsed is usually worse than no job at all, Fugitive S2 v1 is living proof of that saying.Posted ImagePosted Image
Q: Why do you care?

A: You'll never know.

#53 of 444 OFFLINE   TheGreatOz

TheGreatOz

    Second Unit



  • 399 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 13 2007

Posted January 14 2009 - 06:01 PM

Posted Image There's no risk involved...we are purists.

I've just spent the past five hours sampling shows from both Season 1 and Season 2 DVDs and Season 2 VHS tapes. What really cranks my chain are those missing four notes of the Fugitive theme...played in all sorts of moods at high points in the drama and opening each Act & Epilogue.

At the very least, those should have been preserved. I don't care if they were rerecorded and played on a kazoo for Season 2 DVDs...those are as integral a part of each episode as a supporting character.

By the way, it didn't take long for flames to erupt over at the Smiling Box web site's new listing for S2V2. Posted Image
Pay no attention to that cat behind the curtain!

#54 of 444 OFFLINE   DeWilson

DeWilson

    Screenwriter



  • 2,175 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 05 2006

Posted January 15 2009 - 11:00 AM


I AGREE 1,000%! Posted Image

#55 of 444 OFFLINE   michael_ks

michael_ks

    Screenwriter



  • 1,295 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 02 2005

Posted January 15 2009 - 12:38 PM

Whether heard in that lonely, plaintive mode or in bold fashion with the opening of an Act, those notes completely embody the character of Richard Kimble, as much as say, the six note phrase used for Simon Templar in "The Saint". Imagine watching Templar in action minus the title theme quote in the body of an episode? I don't think I could stand it.

#56 of 444 OFFLINE   Gary OS

Gary OS

    Producer



  • 4,645 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 02 2004
  • Real Name:Gary

Posted January 15 2009 - 12:59 PM

Of course not, Michael. It's nothing short of insane to think one can remove the entire underscore of any classic TV show and it NOT adversely affect the viewing of said show. I don't care if we are talking about a drama/action show like ROUTE 66, a western like RAWHIDE, a comedy like THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW, or a pop culture sensation like BATMAN - it's just silly to even consider such an outrageous proposal. To remove the backscore from an iconic TV show like THE FUGITIVE is the height of stupidity. Just no two ways about it. It's like replacing David Janssen's face with someone else's because of a weird legal problem. The show would not be the same. And that holds true for the underscore as well. It's simply not the same show when that beautiful music is removed. Gary "it still staggers me that someone at CBS/P thought this would be acceptable" O.
"Do not challenge supernatural unless armed with sword of truth"
                                             ...CHARLIE CHAN AT TREASURE ISLAND
 

 


#57 of 444 OFFLINE   Jim B.

Jim B.

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 80 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 28 2008

Posted January 15 2009 - 01:52 PM

Earle Hagens music in The Andy Griffith Show is just beautiful, as good as the Alexander, Morton, Rugolo, and DeVol music in My Three Sons. If TAGS was just coming up for release on DVD I am sure the new CBS/Paramount would have replaced it's music. We are lucky to have it. These are sick people that just cannot leave things alone. They have to ruin anything that is quality.

#58 of 444 OFFLINE   michael_ks

michael_ks

    Screenwriter



  • 1,295 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 02 2005

Posted January 15 2009 - 02:11 PM

All great examples, Gary. I was even thinking of "Rawhide" when writing the post. Though this series uses alot of stock music cues, just the omission of a couple oft repeated phrases that appear in just about every episode of "Rawhide's" first three seasons (a six note phrase and a completely separate, sometimes repeated 7 note one comes to mind) would be enough to completely alter the "color" or "feel" of the show. You probably know the ones I'm referring to--the 7 note cue is often heard with establishing shots of the cattle drive, the other in night time campsite interludes. It's so odd how, in the case of "The Fugitive" that stripping a four note title theme quote from the soundtrack can so disrupt the aura of the drama--but in this case, along with other short Rugolo scored cues, (in particular, a five note ascending phrase I'm very fond of) they're tantamount to the empathy we feel for Kimble's plight.

#59 of 444 OFFLINE   Gary OS

Gary OS

    Producer



  • 4,645 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 02 2004
  • Real Name:Gary

Posted January 16 2009 - 12:42 AM

I know exactly what notes you are referring to on RAWHIDE, Michael. And I agree that extracting them from the show would change everything. Heck, even with a simple thing like a cartoon the musical backscore is important. Think about THE FLINTSTONES for instance. Even there we have music that's ingrained in our memories about the show, and to remove those would be to severely alter the series. It's just nothing short of sheer stupidity to think otherwise. I've been enjoying the 2nd season of FATHER KNOWS BEST over the holidays and I can't imagine ripping the underscore from that show. All it takes are a couple of notes, played at the right time, and the tears start flowing. That's the power of music! And to take that element away from a classic like THE FUGITIVE just ruins the entire atmosphere. Gary "still shaking my head, wondering who's bright idea it was to do this in the first place" O.
"Do not challenge supernatural unless armed with sword of truth"
                                             ...CHARLIE CHAN AT TREASURE ISLAND
 

 


#60 of 444 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

Jeff Willis

    Producer



  • 3,387 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 01 2005
  • LocationDallas TX

Posted January 16 2009 - 01:35 AM


Tell us how you really feel, Gary Posted Image Just kidding. Agreed, completely. It showed that the ones making the decisions with the older shows don't identify with the era that the shows were broadcast originally. I'd guess that to the decision-makers at CBS/P, it's just another 60's series to sell.

Mike, as a Rawhide fan, you're right on target with the comparison. When we think of these classics getting their scores changed, it's hard to imagine the effect on the shows.

ml1fyo.jpg  "Checkmate King Two, 'Out'" "Combat! A Selmur Production"

 

TV/DVD Collector, mainly 50's thru 90's with a few 2000+ shows.
My 2 all-time favorite TV shows:
"Combat!" & "The Fugitive"
My 2 all-time best blind-buys: "The Fugitive"   "The Donna Reed Show"





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users