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Mitsubishi DLP or JVC LCoS


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#1 of 21 OFFLINE   Greg->G

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Posted June 13 2007 - 12:58 PM

Hi,

I'm thinking about purchasing a new TV soon, and I've seen a couple models that really caught my eye in terms of price and performance.

One is the mitsubishi WD-52631 52" DLP. Looks nice, and costco has it for $1349.

Also at costco is the JVC HD-56FC97 LCoS for $1699. It also looks very nice to me. Obviously it is a little bigger, and a little more expensive. Both are within my budget, but I may decide to go with the slightly smaller size to save a little money.

But then I went to circuit city today and saw a 57" mitsubishi DLP (I think it was WD-Y57). So for the same price as the JVC and almost the same size, I have a DLP choice.

So which would you choose: DLP or LCoS for the same price and almost the same size? And how does the smaller mitsubishi compare? Any other great deals anyone knows about in the 50"-60" RPTV market right now?

thanks,
greg

#2 of 21 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted June 13 2007 - 03:54 PM

I went out to buy my first HD "main TV" a couple of years ago, all set to buy a DLP set after doing extensive research. Then I saw the Sony and JVC LCoS offerings. I settled on the JVC because I couldn't justify the price premium for the Sony - although if money had not be a consideration, I would have bought one in a heartbeat. A few days later the guys delivered my JVC and I've been thrilled with it ever since.

LCoS sets have better pixel "fill" than LCD RP or DLP sets, for a smoother image and no "screen door" effect, while the absence of a color wheel means no rainbow effect. The brightness, contrast and black level are all outstanding. I've heard some people complain about fan noise, but the only time I notice the fan is when it shuts off after the cool-down period when I've turned the set off. When I'm actually watching TV the sound from my 5.1 speaker system, the a/c, rain on the skylights, passing traffic and two cats chasing each other around the apartment is all more than enough to cover whatever tiny sound the fan may be making.

YMMV, but LCoS is my choice for RP technology. I even prefer it to CRT RP because it is so close in picture quality without the potentional for burn-in, the bulk and the weight (my last RPTV, same 56" screen size as my JVC, was over 300 lbs, and I live in a 3rd floor walk-up), and without the normal "aging" effect that CRT guns suffer. After 10 years my CRT RPTV had suffered some burn in and was starting to get dim. From what I've read the bulb in my JVC will dim out shortly before it goes completely, and once I replace it the picture quality will be as good as the day I bought it. (I haven't had to replace a bulb yet, so I can't swear to this. But I have two replacements on the shelf, bought on-sale on the internet for $150 each. Pretty cheap way to get what amounts to a new TV every few years.)

Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm sure you'll hear from others who say DLP is the way to go. (And honestly I don't think you can go badly wrong with either. My nephew bought a Samsung DLP a few months after I got my JVC and it has a great picture. I think mine is a bit better, but there were no LCoS sets in the size he needed and within his budget and what he got is certainly a terrific set and a terrific value, much better than a comparable LCD panel or LCD-RP.)

Regards,

Joe

#3 of 21 OFFLINE   Cameron Yee

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Posted June 13 2007 - 05:56 PM

Be aware that the FC97 does not have a PC input, if that's important to you.
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#4 of 21 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted June 14 2007 - 01:33 AM

I would also go with the JVC. I think that the LCoS technology is the best out there, at the moment. Remains to be seen, what SED brings to the market. The Sony SXRD and the JVC HD-ILA tvs have had the absolute best pictures, of any other tvs I've personally seen. I lean towards the JVC because of price and I just like JVC. Posted Image I have other JVC stuff too. They've just come out with the new model. There's a review of it in the new Sound and Vision magazine.

I don't have one yet, but I'm sure that when I can buy an HDTV, it will be the JVC. Good luck with whatever you get.

BTW.........
The new model I mentioned does have a computer input, if you need that feature.
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#5 of 21 OFFLINE   Cameron Yee

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Posted June 14 2007 - 01:35 AM

Quote:
Remains to be seen, what SED brings to the market.
SED has been stalled so long I've basically given up on it.
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#6 of 21 OFFLINE   Greg->G

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Posted June 14 2007 - 02:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
Be aware that the FC97 does not have a PC input, if that's important to you.

I did notice that, and while it's not ideal, I can live with it. I currently don't have a computer near the TV. It's possible I might get a laptop in the future. But I figure in the worst case, I could make sure the laptop has a DVI output and get a DVI->HDMI adapter, which runs for about $40 right now (judging from a <1 minute web search).

thanks,
greg

#7 of 21 OFFLINE   Greg->G

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Posted June 14 2007 - 02:08 AM

It's looking like LCoS is the way to go. That is the direction I'd been leaning anyways, so I'm glad to get confirmation Posted Image

Now I just have to convince my wife that 56" isn't too big Posted Image

#8 of 21 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted June 14 2007 - 05:40 AM

hi guys

I am NOT a fan of LCOS. I have seen burnin with this technology. I also regularly see convergence issues and also MAJOR color uniform issues.

I do highly recommend DLPs where there are none of the above problems. The only potential issue is rainbows..but this is the lesser of 2 evils, IMO.

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#9 of 21 OFFLINE   Greg->G

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Posted June 14 2007 - 06:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen
hi guys

I am NOT a fan of LCOS. I have seen burn in with this technology. I also regularly convergence issues and also MAJOR color uniform issues.

I do highly recommend DLPs where there are none of the above problems. the only potential issue is rainbows..but this is the great level of 2 evils, IMO.

Gregg

Well, I guess that means I need to go stare at TVs in the store some to see if I can see any rainbows in DLP or any of the image issues you just raised in LCoS. Any tips on what I should be looking for as far as problems in the LCoS? If I'm looking at the one at costco I definately won't be able to play my own source material, so any tips?

thanks,
greg

#10 of 21 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted June 14 2007 - 12:41 PM

hi
I edited my first post to correct for spelling errors.

Chances are you will not see color uniformity errors on most new displays....but just wait about 1000 hours. Turn the color control down to zero and then turn the temperature control to Low or Warm.

For convergence issues, put in a white grid pattern off of any test disc. Please note that this is a display by display issue. What you evaluate in a show room, will not be the same (better or worse) for the display that you take home with you.

regards

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#11 of 21 OFFLINE   Brian Elwood

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Posted June 16 2007 - 04:38 PM

This will be a totally meaningless post because I am off course bias - however I have had my Mitsubishi WD 52631 for a few weeks and am in awe of it.

No rainbows (but that is an individual thing anyway that has to do with your flicker fusion threshold). I don't know if the Mits has a single-chip DLP projector or not but no one I know has a problem.

I purchased one from the recommendations from two friends that both have one and now I recommend it.

Now if I could only dump DIRECT TV and it's ridicules menus.
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#12 of 21 OFFLINE   Cameron Yee

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Posted June 18 2007 - 04:07 AM

I saw this at my Costco too and the price is definitely right with the stand included.

I also like that there's an actual DVI jack on it.

So tempting...
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#13 of 21 OFFLINE   Greg->G

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Posted June 18 2007 - 04:12 AM

I decided to go with the JVC from costco, and the picture is beautiful. I am fairly happy with it so far, although I still want to order DVE and get it setup better. And if there's something I decide I don't like, I have 30 days to return it.

Quote:
I also like that there's an actual DVI jack on it.
Actually, there is not a DVI jack on it. There are two hdmi inputs, and you can buy a DVI->HDMI cable for about $20, but there isn't a DVI or VGA connector on it.

#14 of 21 OFFLINE   Cameron Yee

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Posted June 18 2007 - 04:17 AM

Sorry, I was referring to the Mits having the DVI.

Glad you are enjoying your new display. Keep us posted!
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#15 of 21 OFFLINE   pal51961

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Posted December 10 2007 - 06:48 PM

Just to add to the debate, the Sony SXRD just received the highest mark of any RP on both Cnet and Home theater review. I must admit I have spent hours studying DLP, LcOS and LCD screens. I currently own 2 RP's. I love the LcOS picture period. Anyone who can honestly say DLP surpasses LcOS has not spent enough time A and B-ing these units. JVC and Sony both share this tech. with different approaches. I prefer the Sony simply because it has far better SD processing, and the HD is superb. The black levels and color saturation is far better with LcOS then with DLP or LCD. I have never heard of excessive burn-in issues with LcOS more than any other format (and LcOS has the ability to repair itself in this regard over time). I don't see how you can go wrong with either the JVC or Sony units, just read the expert reviews and go observe these units side by side and pick your poison. Then go look at a Pioneer KURA plasma and witness perfection, this of course is my opinion. You made a fine choice for the money.

#16 of 21 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted December 11 2007 - 05:30 AM

hi Paul...IMO we are in disagreement on each and every one of your points. :-)

the problem with reviewers and review samples:
1. the items are hand selected for review
2. the items are new and have not had 400-800 hours on them enable their flaws to show up.

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#17 of 21 OFFLINE   pal51961

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Posted December 18 2007 - 02:28 PM

Well Gregg, I can certainly see you are not a fan of LcOS, but I must say you stand nearly alone. Everyone who has owned these sets that I personally know love them. All of the reviewers everywhere I look (who by the way have owned them for up to two or more years) have reviewed them highly. No burn-in issues ever stated, bulb problems, pixel issues and so on. These sets are the only ones I have ever seen that meet color levels out of the box (according to Cnet testing and consumer reports). If you buy it from Costco you get a two year bumper to bumper warranty, not a bad deal for a great price. I am not impressed with DLP if that is what you are touting as the kingpin here. Just go to Sams or Costco, stand back and look at the screens. The LcOS blows away the DLP's by far, but it's your call.

#18 of 21 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted December 20 2007 - 08:47 AM

I can only comment on my own JVC LCoS:

I've just passed the two year mark (bought it December 14, 2005) and it is on an average of 62 hours a week. (6 to 8 hours a night, about 30 hours on the weekends.) That's 6510 hours of use with -

No color problems.
No burn in.
Excellent black level and detail.
The original bulb still in use.

Granted that isn't 10,000 with the set run 24/7 in a store display or exhibit setting, which seem to be the only examples I can recall Gregg citing as examples of burn-in and the other issues he's mentioned. But I don't regard stressing a set to the point of abuse to be a valid benchmark for what a typical user can expect. I'll produce burn-in or something like it on any set you care to name if I can beat the hell out of it.

Gregg is a professional and has vast experience and I have a great deal of respect for him. (Plus he's a heck of a nice guy.) And it is true that the plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". But all I can do for anyone considering an LCoS set is honestly report my own experience with my own set. Which has been fantastic. The picture is gorgeous, better than the HD LCD panels I own or my nephew's DLP (which I've seen more of after two years and like less than my LCoS) and an outstanding value all things considered. One quirk is that Closed Captions don't work over the component inputs, but honestly that hasn't been an issue for me. (And it might have been fixed in later versions anyway.)

I certainly haven't had any cause to regret my decision and I look forward to watching at least one of the hi-def disc formats on it in the coming year, once prices come down more and/or the format war ends.

Regards,

Joe

#19 of 21 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted December 21 2007 - 07:13 AM

hi guys

Joseph, thanks for watching my back!!

As with all things in life YMMV. JVC, once color corrected makes a very nice set. Personally I would mate it with a good video processor as a head unit / switching device.

As with each technology type, LCOS, DLP, LCD, plasma, OLED, crt, etc there are pluses and minuses for each.

Paul, you certainly have a unique perspective. Not sure if youve ever calibrated a display though (let alone 2500 plus displays ;-) )

For the record, I would consider having an LCOS in my home, however the thread as asking about DLP vs LCOS, and in this regard (all things being equal) I would have to chose the DLP. Especially if looking at a LCOS with limited memories / picture modes / processing modes and inaccurate colors based on rec 709.

Gregg

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#20 of 21 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted December 21 2007 - 07:25 AM

Greetings

There is a difference between looking nice to you and it being accurate.

Regards
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