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Should I buy an upscaling DVD player ?


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22 replies to this topic

#1 of 23 OFFLINE   Nancy Parr

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Posted December 16 2004 - 03:21 PM

Hi!

Actually I use a Panasonic progressive scan DVD (player and recorder) linked to my Sanyo PLV-Z2 (16:9 720p native) projector. In order to be able to display the 480p DVD signal my projector has to upconvert it into 720p.

My question is, can I get a better picture if I use an upscaling DVD player (set on 720p on the DVI output linked to my projector) like the Samsung DVD-HD841 or the DENON DVD-1910 ?

For that upscaling setup I should have to buy an upscaling DVD player (about $400 in Canada) and a 25' DVI cable, about (about $500 in Canada). Do the PQ improvement worth the investment ???

Thanks!

Nancy Parrish

#2 of 23 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted December 16 2004 - 08:38 PM

No. Your projector is scaling everything to it's native resolution (720p). Letting your DVD player will just shift the processing to the DVD player's scaler. The DVD player might very well do this worse than your projector, it might be the same, it might be slightly better. But there's little incentive to do so unless your pj's scaling is poor.

Using a much higher scaler than an upscaling player or the onboards scaler might provide some PQ improvements, but quality video processors cost many many thousands of dollars. The closest way to get that kind of quality is with an HTPC which is complicated and still pricey.

#3 of 23 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted December 17 2004 - 12:42 AM

Nancy there's a great thread here with a long dissertation on this. Personally if I had a projector with a digital in I would not bother with a scaling DVD player for the reasons Chris suggests.

DVD native resolution is 480i (interlaced). DVD picture must be scaled digitally in order to be shown on your TV. Your TV has a very good scaler built in.

The only advantage to having the scaler in the DVD player is that you can keep the video stream 100% digital instead of having it converted to analog by the DVD player then back to digital again by the projector for scaling. IMO this is more of a "theoretical" advantage than a "practial" one. Unless your TV's A/D converter and scaler are dreadful or you have a very high end system you probably won't see any noticable performance degradation from the additional analog/digital conversions.
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#4 of 23 OFFLINE   Brajesh Upadhyay

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Posted December 17 2004 - 02:47 AM

I'd have to disagree. Upscaling DVD players like the Momitsu V880 (which I have), Zenith DVB318 & the new Denons do a noticeably better job than the budget/midrange projectors' own internal deinterlacers. I have the Panny PT-AE500U hi-def projector, which is comparable to the Sanyo PLV-Z2. Feeding it a 480i/p signal will give you just that. Feeding it an upscaled 720p picture to its native format gives you a noticeably detailed, punchier picture. It isn't tru hi-def, but about the best you can squeeze out from DVD. The 720p output from the DVD player is also a pixel-perfect match to the projector's 1280x720 native display. Use DVI for the best possible quality.
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#5 of 23 OFFLINE   Elinor

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Posted December 17 2004 - 02:58 AM

Bottom line: if you are not happy with the job your projector is doing, you can look into buying one of the better (high end Denon or equivalent) players to improve things.

Just be sure to buy it from a place that allows returns without restocking fees.

Because unless you are replacing a player that is total crap, it is not *highly* likely you will see much difference.

#6 of 23 OFFLINE   Jerome Grate

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Posted December 17 2004 - 04:36 AM

I'm with Brajesh on this one, the players like Zenith, Samsung 941 and I think the Denon uses Faroudja to deinterlace and upscale to 480p, 720p or 1080i. Scaling via the DVD players can very well be better than what your projector is using.
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#7 of 23 OFFLINE   Dave H

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Posted December 17 2004 - 05:48 AM

I'm buying a Mits WS-65315 Rear Projection TV. Would I benefit from a upscaling DVD player?

#8 of 23 OFFLINE   Jerome Grate

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Posted December 17 2004 - 06:45 AM

Dave H, it depends on how well your t.v. will deinterlace and then upscale the picture. Some t.v.'s upscale material to 1080i and therefore using an upscale player was bypassing this function and can be processing the picture worst than the t.v. Give a comparison if possible between the two and make the winning choice.
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#9 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve F M

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Posted December 17 2004 - 10:04 AM

I would have to disagree with Brajesh. I have the same Panny Proector he has and was upscaling the Zenith 318 to 720p but when compared to my old denon 900 I thought the Denon look as good if not better outputting 480p. I have since went back to Denon and pitched the Zenith.

Its all a ploy to get you to upgrade your DVD Players. My advice is to keep your current players and save your money for the real 720p and 1080i DVD Players coming next year!

Merry Xmas

#10 of 23 OFFLINE   Nancy Parr

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Posted December 17 2004 - 10:55 AM

Thank you all for your views on the subject.

Considering that your POV are differents, I think the best thing to do for now is to continue to read the reviews made on these upscaling DVDs before making a final decision.

Thanks again for your insights on the subjects.

#11 of 23 OFFLINE   Jerome Grate

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Posted December 17 2004 - 03:17 PM

AVSforum.com has a few threads on the subject as well.
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#12 of 23 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted December 20 2004 - 12:50 AM

Quote:
Its all a ploy to get you to upgrade your DVD Players. My advice is to keep your current players and save your money for the real 720p and 1080i DVD Players coming next year!
There will never be a "real 720p" or "1080i" DVD player. The DVD spec only allows for 480i video. You may be hoping for a new high def DVD spec.
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#13 of 23 OFFLINE   Nancy Parr

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Posted December 20 2004 - 10:06 AM

Thank you all for your comments.

They represented different point of views and they helped in making my decision, Well, I made it and I just ordered a Denon 2910 DVD player and a DVI cable.

Hope to receive them as soon as possible. I'll keep you posted of the results.

#14 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve F M

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Posted December 20 2004 - 12:52 PM

Phil of course that is what I am saying. Wait for the new "True Hi Def DVD Players" which should hit the market in about a year (Hopefully). Don't waste money on these up-scaling players, its just a ploy to get you people to buy new DVD Players. Save your money!!

Look at receivers every year its something a little bit different to try and suck you into an upgrade. Doulby Pro Logic, then Double Pro Logic II, now DPL IIx, Next year it will be DPL IIxyz (Just kidding!!!)

I fell for the Upscaling DVD Player (Zenith DVB-318) and again could tell no noticable differnce between my $90 Denon DVD-900 and the Upscaling Zenith. (Via DVI)

Just my 2 cents!!!

#15 of 23 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted December 20 2004 - 03:19 PM

Quote:
My question is, can I get a better picture if I use an upscaling DVD player (set on 720p on the DVI output linked to my projector) like the Samsung DVD-HD841 or the DENON DVD-1910 ?
Yes you can, if you use the setting 720p on the DVD player,this essentially would match the projector's native resolution[pixel to pixel]so no other processing takes place,so in at least theory this should give you the best picture.Keep in mind however that not all upscaling players are "created equal" when using the DVI/HDMI connection.The affore mentioned Secrets website has very good info on most players that on the maket right now.

#16 of 23 OFFLINE   Kevin. W

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Posted December 21 2004 - 12:28 AM

Quote:
Phil of course that is what I am saying. Wait for the new "True Hi Def DVD Players" which should hit the market in about a year (Hopefully). Don't waste money on these up-scaling players, its just a ploy to get you people to buy new DVD Players. Save your money!!

Look at receivers every year its something a little bit different to try and suck you into an upgrade. Doulby Pro Logic, then Double Pro Logic II, now DPL IIx, Next year it will be DPL IIxyz (Just kidding!!!)

I fell for the Upscaling DVD Player (Zenith DVB-318) and again could tell no noticable differnce between my $90 Denon DVD-900 and the Upscaling Zenith. (Via DVI)

Just my 2 cents!!!

I think one thing thats being missed here is that the upscaling DVD player will upscale all the DVD's you own where as with the new Hi-Def players you'll have to replace the DVD's you haves. Not to mention whats the price for these new HD versions going to be. From personal experience owning the LG7832(Canadian Zenith DVB-318), I noticed the difference from the upscaling over my Panasonic RP82. Well worth the purchase and in the future could be used as a second unit.

Kevin

#17 of 23 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted December 21 2004 - 02:00 AM

Quote:
Phil of course that is what I am saying. Wait for the new "True Hi Def DVD Players" which should hit the market in about a year (Hopefully). Don't waste money on these up-scaling players, its just a ploy to get you people to buy new DVD Players. Save your money!!
I think there's alot of wisdom in this, but even if Blu-ray/HD-DVD players do come on the market in the coming year, and at affordable prices, I still wonder what and how much software will also be released. I'm looking forward to hi-def as much as anyone, but I think we're still a few years away from retiring our DVD collections by any significant amount.

So, in the meanwhile, I'm trying to squeeze every last bit of resolution out of DVD. I've got an HDTV with an HDMI input, and I'm just dying to stick something in it!

(Didn't really mean for that to come off sounding like a sexual metaphor...)
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Two together are always going somewhere."

#18 of 23 OFFLINE   Elinor

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Posted December 21 2004 - 02:37 AM

>"I think one thing thats being missed here is that the upscaling DVD player will upscale all the DVD's you own..."

Yes, but these threads are often (not always) started by folks who have fixed pixel (720p) displays or projectors. These units upscale everything anyway.

It has been observed many many times, that there is no particular magic putting scaling circuitry into the DVD box as opposed to the display unit. Scaling is scaling. It can be done well or poorly. By either type of unit.

Plus, one look at the Secrets reviews indicates that most of the inexpensive scaling players have significant issues in other areas (pixel cutoff, chroma, etc.).

#19 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve F M

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Posted December 21 2004 - 08:28 AM

I was under the assumptiom that the Blu-ray/HD-DVD Hi-Def Players would be able to play all the old DVD's also. Is this not correct. I know it won't display 1080i or 720p with the old DVD's but I thought these new players when released (Which I heard would be around next Dec.) would be compatible with the old DVD's!!!

Elinor, exactly right on your comment.

Again my point of view is save your money for the next real upgrade in DVD Players which is when the Blu-Rays and DVD-HD come out. These upscaler players are not worth the money especially if you have a good progessive scan player now.

#20 of 23 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted December 21 2004 - 08:59 AM

Quote:
I was under the assumptiom that the Blu-ray/HD-DVD Hi-Def Players would be able to play all the old DVD's also. Is this not correct. I know it won't display 1080i or 720p with the old DVD's but I thought these new players when released (Which I heard would be around next Dec.) would be compatible with the old DVD's!!!
You know what... I bet you're right! And, moreover, I bet they'll upsample 480 to 1080i/720p, as well.

But I can't wait! Posted Image
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