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*** Official ALIEN VS. PREDATOR Discussion Thread


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#21 of 205 OFFLINE   Mikel_Cooperman

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Posted August 13 2004 - 06:28 AM

Quote:
I've been waiting, what, 10 years for this and it STINKS? BADLY?


Like Freddie vs. Jason before it, there have been numerous tries to get this on the Big Screen with rewrite after rewrite, so do they just finally give up and say, hey let's get it out there so we can make money?

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If all his movies suck. Why does Paul W. S. Anderson keep getting more chances?

I have to say I liked Resident Evil but I was not familiar with the sorce material

#22 of 205 OFFLINE   Ray_Gootz

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Posted August 13 2004 - 06:39 AM

Well I saw it: THIS SUCKED ASS. Just a horrible, horrible film. Nothing seemed grand or epic. When Freddy first met eyes with Jason in Freddy vs. Jason it was a huge moment in th film. The fights were treated as the centerpiece of the flick. Even the marketing campaign made it seem like a huge deal. This film treats the first metting between the two monsters the same way it treats the introduction of the chemical engineer. The fight scenes seem like the filmmakers were just padding time before the next long dialouge scene. The film takes forever to get to the Predator and even LONGER to get to Alien. And there's only one good fight scene but it's edited so choppily you can't make heads or tails what's happening! Just a waste of a movie and IMO the film could've been called Gadzook vs. TheGreen Alien of death and it wouldn't had made a diffrence because that's the way the film is shot. Like two dull-ass monsters going through the motion and NOT the ultimate battle between 2 screen icons.

Oh and Bishop could've been called Donald Trump and had Donald Trump play himself and it would've been the same charcter. If you never saw the Alien films you'd have no clue this guy would play a big part down the line. You would've figured he was just a dumb old fart and the sad part is: Your right. How this dumb-ass actully got robots modeled after him is a mystery of itself.

#23 of 205 OFFLINE   Derrik Draven

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Posted August 13 2004 - 07:14 AM

Have any of you guys read the "Alien vs Predator" novels? If so, you'll know how pretty friggin' kick ass they are!

Great stories and good action. Here's my question:

WHY THE F**K DIDN'T "THEY" JUST MAKE A MOVIE AND USE ONE OF THE NOVELS STORIES?!?!?!?

The damn movie would've turned out great.

For the guy that said he couldn't stand the idea of a Predator befriending a human, well...read the novel. It happens in the novel and it is handled intelligently and, it plays out in a VERY cool way.

This movie is a suck-ass disaster. I could've taken one of the books and directed a kickass movie myself.

For those that wished this to be good, and you HAVE NOT read the novels, do yourself a favor and read the books. They make up for this celloid piece of shite; big time!!!
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#24 of 205 OFFLINE   Bill GrandPre

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Posted August 13 2004 - 07:15 AM

8% at Rottentomatoes.com. What more can I say?
Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of...

#25 of 205 OFFLINE   Steve_Tk

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Posted August 13 2004 - 07:39 AM

My review is up.

The real problem here is that I knew this would suck but I still paid to see it, therefore, allowing more crap like this to be funded in the future.

Movie exec: "Who cares if it sucks, put a few explosions and cool scenes in the trailer, it will sell, trust me."

I have now found the error in my ways. Screw movies and screw trailers.

#26 of 205 OFFLINE   Ben Osborne

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Posted August 13 2004 - 08:01 AM

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I mean, the Alien movies, especially the first two, were big hits, and have become absolute mainstream movie classics.

Especially the first two? Try only the first two. I don't know many people who like part 3 or 4, let alone consider them classics.

Quote:
The Predator movies on the other hand... well the first one is normally referred to as being good "for being an Arnold movie" and the second one is normally trashed by everyone, even fans of the first one (I happen to like the second one though). It seems that the general public couldn't care less about a Predator movie, while new Aliens movie would have been a much safer bet.

I think the first Predator movie is a highly respected action movie that has not lost its appeal since its release. The special effects still look good, the characters are still cool (unlike the protagonists in many 80's movies), the action sequences have held up very well. I think that it terms of presenting us with a group of hardened warriors and having them gradually killed off by a superior opponent, it does a better job of making us like the characters and making them more believable than Aliens.

Predator 2 isn't great, but I think it's underrated. It's no worse than the last two Alien movies. And unlike the Alien franchise, the Predator franchise has a lot of unexplored territory. The Alien franchise had its protagonist die in part 3 only to be brought back in part 4. The two heroes of the Predator movies are alive at the end. In the Alien franchise we've seen about 5,000 aliens, including two or three queen aliens, an alien/human hybrid, a alien/dog hybrid, and about a dozen other varieties that look pretty similar and get killed by the bushel like the rest. We've seen so many varieties of aliens that they're not interesting anymore. I wouldn't even want to see their home world. Is there really going to be anything there we haven't seen a million times before? The Predators are at least still somewhat mysterious and interesting. They go beyond being just violent and disgusting like the aliens are, but have their own technology and culture.

I admit the a new Alien movie is a safer bet than a new predator movie in terms of the box office, but that's just because the public is more aware of the Alien franchise and the last Alien movie came out only a few years ago. But I would much rather see a new Predator movie, directed by a capable action director such as John McTiernan (I know, he's had a lot of duds, but Die Hard with a Vengeance shows he can revamp a franchise). The overwhelming criticism that AVP is being met with makes that unlikely though.


#27 of 205 OFFLINE   Dan Rudolph

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Posted August 13 2004 - 08:37 AM

Resident Evil was good in context, which is to say the game were absed on laughably bad zombie movies, so making a laughably bad zombie movie was a appropriate direction.

Sadly, Ebert doesn't seem to be reviewing this. I always enjoyed reading his eviscerations of bad movies.
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#28 of 205 OFFLINE   Chris Harvey

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Posted August 13 2004 - 08:42 AM

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Sadly, Ebert doesn't seem to be reviewing this. I always enjoyed reading his eviscerations of bad movies.

He's not reviewing it cuz Fox cancelled all the press screenings and junkets, and didn't even hold a public screening until the midnight shows last night. Clearly they think they have a winner on their hands. Posted Image

#29 of 205 OFFLINE   Michael Harris

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Posted August 13 2004 - 08:45 AM

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Fox cancelled all the press screenings and junkets


Here is the Washington Post's take on this:

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ALIEN VS. PREDATOR (PG-13, 100 minutes)
So these archaeologists run into an Aztec temple hidden under the Antarctic Circle, which happens to be a battle ground for those scary, squishy aliens from the movie "Alien" and a group of Predators from, you know, the movie "Predator." And they find themselves caught in the middle of a Fox franchise vs. franchise melee. Your friendly Weekend reviewer was shocked -- shocked! -- to learn that Twentieth Century Fox declined to screen this movie for critics. Area theaters.


#30 of 205 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted August 13 2004 - 09:19 AM

Ben said:
"I think the first Predator movie is a highly respected action movie that has not lost its appeal since its release. The special effects still look good, the characters are still cool (unlike the protagonists in many 80's movies), the action sequences have held up very well. I think that it terms of presenting us with a group of hardened warriors and having them gradually killed off by a superior opponent, it does a better job of making us like the characters and making them more believable than Aliens."

Good assessment Ben and one I agree with.

#31 of 205 OFFLINE   brentl

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Posted August 13 2004 - 09:53 AM

Wow, I went in and got what I expected which wasn't much.

Problems;

30-45 minutes without ANY Aliens.

I would think with a franchise that big you would have something other than a simple flashback to explain what happened and have aliens shown for the first time. I went for the Aliens, and was hoping for more of them.

What was the deal with the pyramid?? It seemed like it was going to be a Human VS Pyramid movie for a while. Sure was convenient when it started to move.

Stupid story telling to explain how the pyramid(and all the others) got there, and how they were our overseers(sp?).

Why do they insist on advancing the weaponery visuals, the advanced shoulder gun fired way slower than in the other movies, and the "arm bomb" had this "trekkie transporter" look to it when he was activating it.

The Predators were pretty well done, but they had a giant thud with every step, Way overdone!

Aliens looked good in closeups, but everything from midrange was all digital and was easy to spot. The Queen, when she was initially revived looked great, very Alien part 2.

The jittery camera work during the solo fight between the Alien and Predator made the Bourne Supremecy look steady!

We had a good look at the Predator drop ship in Predator 2 and they completely changed it, bad move!

The good

Initial Queen Alien scene was strong.

The part where the Alien was about to kill the Predator and he did his Hiss was my favourite moment.

Cool and fun ending on the Predator ship, kind of obvious but still fun.

Brent
I won't talk about the bad script or bad acting, but why weren't we offered a look into how Weyland/Yutani was formed?

#32 of 205 OFFLINE   CoreyII

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Posted August 13 2004 - 11:27 AM

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The Predator movies on the other hand... well the first one is normally referred to as being good "for being an Arnold movie" and the second one is normally trashed by everyone, even fans of the first one (I happen to like the second one though). It seems that the general public couldn't care less about a Predator movie, while new Aliens movie would have been a much safer bet.

To back up Tim Glover and Ben Osborne, the first Predator is a well loved action/sci-fi film from the 80's that hasn't lost none of its appeal over the years. As a matter of fact I was at Target yesterday and they were sold out of the special edition 2 disc set of the film.

As far as Predator 2 goes you would be surprised at how many people liked the sequel. The film definitely goes into more of the creatures past and not just the scene with the Alien skull,but also when the creature gives Danny Glover the gun from 1756(don't remember the exact date). And the Gary Busey scenes were great, I liked how Busey explained the creatures past and how he referenced to Arnold's team from the first film.

In my opinion Predator 2 problems are: the supporting cast, while Glover and Busey, are great in the film the rest of the cast especially Glover's team of cops are just bland. Rueben Blades, Maria Conchita Alonso, Kent McCord, and Bill Paxton are just not as cool as badass Sonny Landham, Bill Duke, Richard Chaves, Lethal Weapon creator Shane Black, Jesse "The Body" Ventura, and of course Carl "Apollo Creed"/"Action Jackson" Weathers. Bill Paxton is perhpaps the worst offender because all he did in Predator 2 was rehash his Hudson role from Aliens.

But, perhaps Predator 2 greatest fault is being a sequel to an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie without having Arnold in it. Although the film is about the Predator and the studios were smart to focus on the creature, the original Predator was still a vehicle for one of cinema's greatest action stars and Im pretty sure most people were expecting him to return in part 2, not Roger Murtaugh.

#33 of 205 OFFLINE   Alex Spindler

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Posted August 13 2004 - 01:05 PM

Just saw it and it was fair, but not especially good.

The good was that they managed a few good confrontations between the titular factions, one or two of which were satisfying. There was a fair amount of use of bullet-time, or should I call it face hugger-time, but there are one or two scenes that find good benefit from it.

The bad are a couple of logic problems, a serious departure from the Alien lifecycle, and two or three really missed opportunities.

For the Aliens,
- Why was it necessary to completely abandon the lifecycle concept? Facehuggers that impregnate instantly, chest bursters in minutes (the one lady wakes up to see face huggers still going to work on her friends only to die minutes later), and full size aliens in an hour. Probably far too nitpicky, but it irked me to a great degree.
- I really liked the fact that they stuck to the classic alien adult style from the first Alien rather than using the ones from Aliens or others. They also didn't deviate from the Alien Queen design from Aliens which was a good choice.
- They really dropped the ball by not having the victor of the first two Predator deaths (the one that was scarred by the net) not be involved in a confrontation to the death between either the Predator or the human survivor. It was something I was looking forward to and was quite disappointed when he went up in the fireball like all the rest of the throwaway adults.

For the Predators,
- They did a fair job of giving the individual Predators some distinctive styles, which was good.
- It would be a very odd choice for the Predators to have a pyramid set in Antarctica given that their two films make no mistake their preference for temperate or hot climates.
- That they arrived without projectile weapons, but kept century old ones seemed really odd. I first thought it works as kind of a sporting safety device. Hunting only counts if you use hand to hand combat, but if you get in trouble, pick up the weapons. But then I remembered that the entire pyramid cycle was started by picking up the weapons, to include activating the sacrificial chamber, so it sort of fell apart. Perhaps the sequence was supposed to start with the Predators going into that chamber and dialing the date in.

For the rest,
- A real missed opportunity was not doing something more with Weyland. As best I can tell, his company is in shambles. I sort of assumed he'd escape with some shred of technology to catapult his company into the lead for the future films.
- I understand that they do this safari every hundred years, but how did a whaling team get there to start it up? - The leads soon decide that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. However, up to that point, I think the only experience with either side was the loss of several of their human friends at the hands of the Predators. But after reading the heiroglyphs, they decide that the Predators are the good guys? Talk about believing everything you read!
- There were some really nice homages in the film, from alien designs in the starting satellite, in the deserted whaling town, and perhaps even a visual reference to The Thing in their early exploration of the town.


All in all, I think it's Anderson's best since Event Horizon, but I wasn't too keen on Resident Evil and really didn't like Soldier.

#34 of 205 OFFLINE   Michael Boyd

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Posted August 13 2004 - 01:55 PM

I didn't really mind the team-up. As someone else said, that's from the first comic. (BUT! Was there no acid blood left in that Alien head/shield she wore on her arm?)

The final chestburst "surprise" ending didn't work. Why would that Predator have not killed himself with the wrist bomb if he knew he was impregnated? But my point is I wasn't bothered by the look of the chestburster. Wasn't that the theory why Alien 3's creature looked so different since it came out of a dog/ox?

I did like how the death of the Alien Queen mirrored Ripley's expulsion of her enemy. Instead of the abyss of space, it's the dark abyss of the ocean.

Anyway, this post was just to mention a few things I was okay with in this film. I don't think it was a good movie by any means. All the problems mentioned in previous postings, well . . . I concur!
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#35 of 205 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted August 13 2004 - 02:28 PM

I did enjoy that quick homage to Jurassic Park when whatshername is being chased by that huge Alien on the snowy topside.
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#36 of 205 OFFLINE   BrionL

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Posted August 13 2004 - 02:46 PM

I thought it wasn't that bad but then again I had pretty low expectations.

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#37 of 205 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted August 13 2004 - 03:17 PM

I had pretty much no expectations and it still managed to underwhelm me.
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#38 of 205 OFFLINE   Brian Sheffield

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Posted August 13 2004 - 04:29 PM

Definitey not a great movie, but I found myself enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would.

I'd give it a solid C- or 2 out of 5 stars.

#39 of 205 OFFLINE   Johnny Angell

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Posted August 13 2004 - 04:41 PM

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30-45 minutes without ANY Aliens. I would think with a franchise that big you would have something other than a simple flashback to explain what happened and have aliens shown for the first time. I went for the Aliens, and was hoping for more of them.


Remember how Alien started. Must have been a half hour before the face-hugger appeared, maybe more. Alien took its time setting things up.

Unfortunately, that's about all this movie has in common with Alien, taking its time.
Johnny
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#40 of 205 OFFLINE   Dome Vongvises

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Posted August 13 2004 - 04:50 PM

I have to agree with Ben on the assessment that Predator still holds up very well. And I'm one of the few people that like the sequel as well.

Again, I think the problem is that it's too conventionally nu skool. Slo-mo mid-air sequence, not-so-good camera work, mediocre script and dialogue, self-mockery. I'll go ahead and say that Paul Anderson isn't that bad, but he's not that good either. Ridley Scott, John McTiernan (back in the day), and James Cameron run circles around this guy.

I thought it was okay, but the one thing that I missed is getting to hear the Predators speak something. In the first one, it was really eerie how they tried to emulate human speech, and in the second one it was kind of cool when the guy said "Take it."

Otherwise, some nice touches like nods to Bishop's use of a knife to do the whole knife trick in his office.

But man oh man is the score to this movie so forgettable. I'm thinking of the creepiness and adrenaline filled strings of Aliens or the machismo of the brass in Predator. The score to AVP had none of that.

I realize as a film it has to stand on its own, but I thought the teamup at the end was a nice touch because it alluded to one of the comic series. Speaking of which, it makes me wonder why they just didn't do a direct adaptation of the comics.


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