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How NOT to drive on black ice


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36 replies to this topic

#1 of 37 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted February 14 2004 - 10:22 AM

http://www.losingstr...ack_ice_fun.wmv

People are saying it looks like Tennessee plates. Let this be a lesson for anyone that goes in the wide open lane when in traffic and cuts in front at the end. Posted Image

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#2 of 37 OFFLINE   Evelio Figueroa

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Posted February 14 2004 - 10:54 AM

Gee, the incident responce vehicle had the flashing arrow pointed in the wrong direction!! Towards the end of the video, he corrects it!!

#3 of 37 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted February 14 2004 - 10:54 AM

When I was working in RI, my company had a bunch of workers on loan from our office in Georgia. It was a winter day and black ice was everywhere. We warned the Georgians about the black ice, giving them tips on how to drive it. They said "Nice try, but how stupid do y'all think southerners are to believe in something like black ice? Oh man, that's a good one". One rental car later, they learned that we were not kidding.

#4 of 37 OFFLINE   Keith Mickunas

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Posted February 14 2004 - 11:13 AM

Is there any good way to drive on black ice? About the only thing I know to do is take your feet off the pedals and pray to your favorite deity that you go over it without losing control. If you have to stop you can try locking up your wheels then shifting to reverse, that can help.

Anybody know what black ice really is? Is that just where moisture has collected in the cracks and texture of the road and frozen resulting in a completely smooth surface? I've spent a good amount of time driving in ice and snow, but I've only encountered black ice a few times, and I didn't like it. It's hard to spot and totally unforgiveable.

This video actually looked like a frozen overpass. Before moving to Texas I never understood why so many bridges had ice warnings. Now I do. In Kansas City they did a good enough job of salting and sanding the roads when the ice started coming, but in Texas they just don't have the equipment to cover everything quickly when bad weather comes. Down here I've encountered frozen overpasses many times, and those can be bad.

#5 of 37 OFFLINE   Dheiner

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Posted February 14 2004 - 11:29 AM

My experience is that black ice is usually caused by snow melt that re-freezes when the temperature drops late in the day. If you think it sucks in a car, try it in a 75,000 pound 18-wheeler. if you have to change direction, you're screwed.
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#6 of 37 OFFLINE   Wayne Bundrick

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Posted February 14 2004 - 11:45 AM

I may live in Georgia but I do know what black ice is. If there's ice on the roads, I don't drive anywhere unless I absolutely have to. Not because southerners don't know how to drive on ice, but because of all the transplanted northerners who think they know how to drive on ice. They say "Oh this is nothing compared to what I've seen back home" and the next thing you know they've slid across three lanes of traffic and killed a family of four.

There are no geographical boundaries on stupidity. Don't try to make this into a southern thing.
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#7 of 37 OFFLINE   CRyan

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Posted February 14 2004 - 11:45 AM

It is certainly TN with that TDOT truck in the picture. Not sure what intersection. I kinda feel sorry for the last BMW. Going too fast of course, but he was actually paying attention to the sign as it seems.


Good grief.

#8 of 37 OFFLINE   Evelio Figueroa

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Posted February 14 2004 - 12:15 PM

Quote:
If you think it sucks in a car, try it in a 75,000 pound 18-wheeler.

Been there, done that!!


Black ice forms on bridges and overpasses allot quicker because cold air moves above and below it. You can't see black ice until its to late. All you need to do is slow down when crossing a bridge.

#9 of 37 OFFLINE   Jason_Els

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Posted February 14 2004 - 02:20 PM

Go slow, have studded snows on all fours or use ice-appropriate tires like Blizzaks or Green Diamonds. All-weather tires are only suitable for areas that do not freeze.

It shocks me the number of people who forgo winter tires just because they're more of an expense. Sure they cost money but it's costly repairs, medical bills, lawsuits, or even your LIFE we're talking here. There is nothing more frightening than losing control of a car when your kids are in it. At that point in time I wager you'll think the $400 or so for a high-quality set of snow and ice tires will more than offset the cost of wondering if you and your kids will survive the slide. Other people do stupid things too, it's not just you who has to be careful. Avoidance manuevering is just as essential and if you have to make a sudden move that added traction could save your life.

All the sophisticated traction control devices, anti-lock brakes, and AWD drivetrains don't amount to anything if your tires have no grip.

Please don't risk your life and the lives of others by using inadequate tires. It's a tiny price to pay for the piece of mind and essential protection they can give you.

And put snow/ice tires on ALL FOUR wheels! Not doing so will screw-up your car's handling and traction making things even more dangerous.
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#10 of 37 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted February 14 2004 - 02:52 PM

Are those tires something you can leave on all winter or only when the weather's bad? It's a lot of work to take off all 4 wheels and replace them.

#11 of 37 OFFLINE   Mark Murphy

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Posted February 14 2004 - 02:56 PM

I don't think snow tires, as good as they may be, will help with black ice. Nor will four wheel drive. Driving a little slower and using caution at intersections is a better way of preventing accidents. Driving in snow conditions and black ice conditions are totally different, in my opinion. I'd rather drive in snow because most people are more cautious while driving. Anyone who commutes in the Greater Boston area (Rt.128,Rt.93, and Rt.495) remembers December 3rd when most people took 4 or more hours to get to work because of black ice. I live 12 miles, all highway, from my office and it took me over 2 hours because of black ice.

#12 of 37 OFFLINE   Evelio Figueroa

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Posted February 14 2004 - 03:28 PM

Quote:
I don't think snow tires, as good as they may be, will help with black ice.

Its true. Same goes for weight.

I was driving a tanker truck fully loaded with gasoline and I was slipping and sliding on black ice.

Nope, didn't wreak. Tried to cross a bridge at 1(one)mph. Couldn't get any traction or go backwards because of the traffic building up.

#13 of 37 OFFLINE   Jason_Els

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Posted February 14 2004 - 04:22 PM

Quote:
I don't think snow tires, as good as they may be, will help with black ice.

If you get one with an ice compound or studs then they will. I drove home on I84 one night a few years ago and as I came around a banked curve I noticed a whole lot of lights down in the median. It seems the curve was covered with black ice. I slowed down and went around the curve and as I did I noticed a bunch of cars had slid off the curve and down the embankment smashing into each other. My car stayed where it was and continued without a hiccup or a slip. The trooper (wisely) parked ahead of the curve but was walking tenderly. A few miles further down there was another pile-up at the 17 interchange. Seems cars were braking and slid right off the road. I brake and my car slows and I get off at the exit.

An exit ramp with a sharp left turn at the bottom, two cars slid into the overpass pillar. My car makes the turn.

I had 4 studded snows on. Thank the gods.

It's a matter of physics. Tires designed for snow and ice handle it better because they get a grip into the ice by causing more friction with the road surface. Ice racing is divided into two groups of cars. Those with studs and those without. Why? Because those with studs have a natural advantage over those without to the point that they have to race within their own class. Saying that you don't think snow tires will do anything in black ice conditions isn't remotely supported by the mounds of evidence that shows they do.

Snow tires, as they are made these days, are also designed for ice. The Blizzaks and other studless tires use sipes, razor-thin cuts made into the tread so that when on ice the sipes fold onto each other causing the sticky part of the sipe to contact the ice thus increasing adhesion. Ever see the tread of boat shoes? It's the same concept, and it works. The other class of studless tire is exemplified by Green Diamond. Green Diamond uses small granules of silica impregnated in the tire compound so that as the tire wears there is no loss in ice performance. The silica in the tire acts like sand, digging into the ice to create friction and thus increasing traction. For states where studs are not allowed or where there are not frequent deep snows or ice conditions, tires like these are the best.

Studded tires are just what the name implies, a snow tire with metal studs embedded in the tire. The studs dig into the ice and give the car adhesion like nothing else. They're noisy but worth it.

Most states have laws about when you can have studded tires on a car. Some states don't allow them at all. Check your DMV. The states specify when the earliest and latest dates the tires are allowed. The usual span is November-April. I change my tires 2x a year though this spring I plan on getting a separate set of wheels and tires for summer and just use the stock wheels for the snows; which brings an added benefit. Having a set of dedicated snow tires allows you to get the stickiest summer tires you want. Since they'll never have to see snow or ice you don't have to consider their performance in those conditions. Ergo, get the stickiest tire you want for the 2/3 of the year you want them.
For beauty is only a step removed from a burning terror we barely sustain, and we worship it for the graceful sublimity with which it disdains to consume us. - Rainer Maria Rilke

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#14 of 37 OFFLINE   John Thomas

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Posted February 14 2004 - 04:28 PM

In climates that have a significant winter driving period, this might not be a bad idea Jason. However, in Tennessee its extremely rare to have such conditions; whenever the conditions do occur, I just drive a bit more sensibly, slowing down. Some people will think that if they have snow tires that they can drive just as fast as they do when the pavement is dry. This is the class of people that are commonly referred to as morons. Posted Image

#15 of 37 OFFLINE   Philip_G

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Posted February 14 2004 - 04:53 PM

When I lived in ND I would run blizzaks for winter time, because there's snow and ice around much of the winter, I would not run them here in denver, we just don't get enough snow and ice, I'd chew up a set of blizzaks in a couple of months running up and down the freeway on dry pavement.

they're FANTASTIC snow and ice tires, but won't last long at all on dry roads.

I've lived in a lot of nasty climates, and have yet to encounter black ice actually.
and lastly,

Quote:
Some people will think that if they have snow tires that they can drive just as fast as they do when the pavement is dry. This is the class of people that are commonly referred to as morons.

I just call them SUV drivers. Posted Image

#16 of 37 OFFLINE   Don Black

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Posted February 14 2004 - 07:17 PM

Link is dead....

#17 of 37 OFFLINE   Ron C

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Posted February 15 2004 - 12:23 AM

The thing about blizzaks is the outer tread is ice/snow compound. Once it wears halfway there is all season compound, which has considerably less grips. There are better winter tires if you go mostly freeway with snow occasionally. I run Michelin Aplins in the winter and Falken Azenis in the summer.

#18 of 37 OFFLINE   Eric_L

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Posted February 15 2004 - 01:39 AM

broken link

#19 of 37 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted February 15 2004 - 08:38 AM

Quote:
I may live in Georgia but I do know what black ice is.


Good for you. I would not expect the average southener to know what black ice is and the one's I talked to did not. Does not mean they are stupid any more than I was stupid for not knowing what a "Pig Pickin" was before I lived in North Carolina. No insult was meant or intended, it was simply a story.



Quote:
There are no geographical boundaries on stupidity. Don't try to make this into a southern thing.


Quote:
because of all the transplanted northerners who think they know how to drive on ice. They say "Oh this is nothing compared to what I've seen back home" and the next thing you know they've slid across three lanes of traffic and killed a family of four.


Yeah, we sure wouldn't want to generalize according to geographic area, would we? Posted Image

#20 of 37 OFFLINE   Wayne Bundrick

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Posted February 15 2004 - 09:08 AM

I guess there's no geographical boundaries on being an asshole either.

Something to think about when you stop for gas or a meal in Georgia on your way to Disney World:
http://www.funderbur...fffunnies5.html
Wayne Bundrick

"It tastes like there's a party in my mouth and everybody's throwing up!" -- Philip J. Fry


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