Edward J M
Senior HTF Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2002
- Messages
- 2,031
Edit - description of problem updated for clarity: The Denon 3803 will not automatically equalize the low passed bass and the LFE channel, and it thereby allows the user to unknowingly create a large fixed level disparity between the two bass sources. This is not conventional bass management, and it is clearly a design flaw on Denon's part.
Normally, if the speakers are set to small, the subwoofer level control adjusts both the low passed bass AND the LFE channel equally and simultaneously.
If the user calibrates to a 75 dB Reference Level at Master Volume 00 using the internal test tones, the individual settings for the mains, center, and surrounds are obviously fixed. Conversely, it is a common practice to arbitrarily select a subwoofer level setting (say -6 on a scale of -12 to +12) and then adjust the subwoofer plate amp control to achieve 75-78 dB on the SPL meter when calibrating. This practice is done under the assumption that the subwoofer level control will equally adjust both the low passed bass AND the LFE channel bass.
However, if said subwoofer level setting is actually an LFE channel control ONLY, then any difference between the subwoofer level setting and the settings for the other high passed speakers by default becomes a FIXED disparity between the low passed bass level and the LFE level for any given Master Volume setting.
For example, if the average Reference Level settings for all the high passed speakers is -2, and the user arbitrarily selects -7 for the subwoofer level control and adjusts for 75 dB at the plate amp, the LFE channel will ALWAYS run 5 dB cooler than the rest of the system levels at any given Master Volume setting.
This is a new AVR for me, and I was wondering why my bass levels were wandering all over the place on certain DVDs and also were vastly different between DVDs. The reason why is because I was experiencing low passed bass at the proper playback level, and LFE bass (in my case) a huge 6 dB lower. When the bass in the DVD was derived from the LFE channel only, the bass was very weak. When it was derived from the high passed surround channels, it was suitably strong. You can imagine the consternation this caused me until I figured it out.
Bottom Line: If you own a Denon 3803, you had better make damn sure the internal subwoofer level setting is EXACTLY the same as the internal setting for the mains. When I did this, all my bass problems went completely away.
I have specific examples of DVDs with time stamps if this thread generates any interest.
And just to avoid any unproductive tangents, this was NOT related to the LFE peak bass limiter control, which was correctly set at 0 (the highest setting). This was also NOT related to the DD Dynamic Compression Circuits in the DVD Player and the AVR-3803, both of which were set to Off.
I think Denon SCREWED UP and accidentally left the LFE channel level circuit in place instead of the overall subwoofer level control when they eliminated the LFE leveler control when they introduced the 3803.
Regards,
Ed
Normally, if the speakers are set to small, the subwoofer level control adjusts both the low passed bass AND the LFE channel equally and simultaneously.
If the user calibrates to a 75 dB Reference Level at Master Volume 00 using the internal test tones, the individual settings for the mains, center, and surrounds are obviously fixed. Conversely, it is a common practice to arbitrarily select a subwoofer level setting (say -6 on a scale of -12 to +12) and then adjust the subwoofer plate amp control to achieve 75-78 dB on the SPL meter when calibrating. This practice is done under the assumption that the subwoofer level control will equally adjust both the low passed bass AND the LFE channel bass.
However, if said subwoofer level setting is actually an LFE channel control ONLY, then any difference between the subwoofer level setting and the settings for the other high passed speakers by default becomes a FIXED disparity between the low passed bass level and the LFE level for any given Master Volume setting.
For example, if the average Reference Level settings for all the high passed speakers is -2, and the user arbitrarily selects -7 for the subwoofer level control and adjusts for 75 dB at the plate amp, the LFE channel will ALWAYS run 5 dB cooler than the rest of the system levels at any given Master Volume setting.
This is a new AVR for me, and I was wondering why my bass levels were wandering all over the place on certain DVDs and also were vastly different between DVDs. The reason why is because I was experiencing low passed bass at the proper playback level, and LFE bass (in my case) a huge 6 dB lower. When the bass in the DVD was derived from the LFE channel only, the bass was very weak. When it was derived from the high passed surround channels, it was suitably strong. You can imagine the consternation this caused me until I figured it out.
Bottom Line: If you own a Denon 3803, you had better make damn sure the internal subwoofer level setting is EXACTLY the same as the internal setting for the mains. When I did this, all my bass problems went completely away.
I have specific examples of DVDs with time stamps if this thread generates any interest.
And just to avoid any unproductive tangents, this was NOT related to the LFE peak bass limiter control, which was correctly set at 0 (the highest setting). This was also NOT related to the DD Dynamic Compression Circuits in the DVD Player and the AVR-3803, both of which were set to Off.
I think Denon SCREWED UP and accidentally left the LFE channel level circuit in place instead of the overall subwoofer level control when they eliminated the LFE leveler control when they introduced the 3803.
Regards,
Ed