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Sony SXRD: Friend or Foe?


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#1 of 12 Mike_Sidden

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Posted March 24 2003 - 02:25 AM

Has anyone actually seen or read anything about this new technology that is suppose to be released this summer? How will it compare to the current LCD based XBR800 series?

Quotes from TWICE.COM:

The SXRD micro display produces over 2 million pixels (1,920 by 1,080 pixels) of picture data from a .78-inch (diagonal) panel with a pixel pitch of 9 micrometers each.

-Does this mean that this tv will be capable of the famed "1080P"?

Black level performance is also said to be high, with a device contrast ratio of 3,000:1. Brightness in the prototype front projector was said to be 1,000 ANSI lumens.

-Is this good? How does it compair to the current XBR and WV series?

....the company is still determining how it will position the SXRD products, adding that he expects it will be used as a step-up display to current LCD projection models.

-Is this set going to completely replace the XBR lineup for the fall?

I'm sure these questions are a little premature, but I think they are good discussion material.

Thanks,

Mike Posted Image
He who laughs last had the most bullets.

#2 of 12 Greg Schwabacher

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Posted March 24 2003 - 07:11 AM

For a good, lengthy discussion of SXRD (mostly speculation, but interesting none-the-less), check here.
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#3 of 12 harana

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Posted March 25 2003 - 11:30 AM

There is just too much to read in that link above. Is there a shorter summary out there? Or may be someone can respond to great questions by Mike.

#4 of 12 PaulHeroy

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Posted March 25 2003 - 01:06 PM

Having read (over time, not all at once) virtually that entire gigantic thread, I feel qualified to proclaim myself an expert in all things SXRD -- almost as if I'd slept at a Holiday Inn last night. Posted Image

So far the consensus seems to be:

Quote:
Does this mean that this tv will be capable of the famed "1080P"?


That's sure what it looks like, at least on the display side; as a fixed panel device it would naturally be 1080p. Whether it would accept a 1080p input is a different matter and very unlikely (bandwidth & processing are constraints there), but I'm not sure if that's what you meant.

Quote:
Black level performance is also said to be high, with a device contrast ratio of 3,000:1. Brightness in the prototype front projector was said to be 1,000 ANSI lumens. -Is this good? How does it compair to the current XBR and WV series?


A device contrast of 3000:1 is near state of the art for a fixed panel display, but is not for the "display device" as a whole, only the panel. Expect final system contrast in the realm of half of the above, which is still darn good and better than any existing LCD or LCOS display. The brightness for a FP, if real, is reasonably good but nothing special. The big thing is the CR, which has been the weakness in existing LCOS displays, which otherwise excel at smoothness (resolution & pixel fill ratio), color and image stability. Another nice improvement for long term image quality (after 3000 hours of use) is that Sony apparently came up with a way to avoid the blue panel deterioration that apparently affects all LCD based devices (which would include LCOS).

Quote:
....the company is still determining how it will position the SXRD products, adding that he expects it will be used as a step-up display to current LCD projection models. -Is this set going to completely replace the XBR lineup for the fall?


Obviously nobody knows right now, but it certainly sounds as if this will become the flagship of all of Sony's projection displays. Whether Sony puts all its eggs in one basket by ditching LCD may depend on the price point that the RPTV hits. For FP, it may usurp the current LCD flagship of Sony's line, the VPL-VW12HT, but almost certainly wouldn't replace the less expensive HS10 and HS2 LCD projectors. A source on the thread above claims inside info that a FP will be in the $8K range, while a Sony rep at a recent tech demo thought it would be more than double that.

#5 of 12 PaulHeroy

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Posted March 28 2003 - 02:45 PM

See some interesting comments about SXRD on Projector Central, particularly with regard to the 1920 x 1080 resolution. They have the advantage of comparing the whole spectrum of available resolutions, and aren't sold on the 1080 inherently being worth big bucks (unless you have a really huge screen). One thing I noticed that they didn't address is the issue of pixel fill factor, which seems to go hand in hand with resolution in creating a smooth image. The couple of times I've seen LCOS that made for a very easy to watch image (along with the lack of rainbows), of course with the known weakness of greyish blacks.

#6 of 12 PaulHeroy

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Posted April 01 2003 - 10:00 AM

(Original post & link deleted.)
Sorry, just realized this was an April Fool's joke about SXRD... :b

#7 of 12 Greg Schwabacher

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Posted April 01 2003 - 10:15 AM

It's an April Fool's joke...check here.
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#8 of 12 PaulHeroy

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Posted April 01 2003 - 02:32 PM

Greg, yep, that's where I read it of course... and I thought something funny was up with that url and that it might be an AFD prank, but they did a great job with the whole rollout. Not quite Sid Finch mind you, but pretty darn good!

#9 of 12 Greg Schwabacher

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Posted April 01 2003 - 02:42 PM

Hey Paul, don't feel bad, they had me going too!
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#10 of 12 Richard Paul

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Posted April 02 2003 - 07:34 AM

I find the comments from Projector Central a little odd in that they say there is no great improvement going from 720p to 1080p since 720p is good enough. Thats like saying that 480p is just as good as 720p since 480p is watchable. The point of HDTV isn't that you need a humongous TV, but that you can sit closer to the image (compared to a NTSC television) and therefore make out more detail. Truth is that you would get the same benefit from a 1080p TV at 34" as a 1080p front projector on a 160" screen. It's the same reason you don't complain about computer monitors being limited to 21" or smaller since most of them can do up to 1600x1200 resolution. Since computer monitors can do such a high resolution you can view them a lot closer than you would view a NTSC television of the same size.

SXRD will probably be expensive and if the front projector comes out for less than $10,000 I'll be impressed. This is a new technology and will be expensive at first. It would be best if it could accept 1080p simply since it would set the precedent for future 1080p displays. This is important because without any displays that can accept 1080p Hollywood could rightfully argue that future prerecorded HDTV on HD-DVD should be in 1080i. Since the interlace processing on 1080p can't really be undone you would lose up to 50% of the vertical resolution on movies, and on video filmed at 1080p.

#11 of 12 Ken Chan

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Posted April 02 2003 - 11:08 AM

Quote:
Since the interlace processing on 1080p can't really be undone
If it's 1080p at 24fps converted to 1080i/30fps, that's just regular telecine, and can be undone.

Quote:
they say there is no great improvement going from 720p to 1080p since 720p is good enough. Thats like saying that 480p is just as good as 720p since 480p is watchable.
Not really. "Watchable" is not nearly "like looking through a window" -- although whether 720p is that good is another matter. Certainly at some point, even 50% more resolution won't make a practical difference. If someday in the future they have a display with, say, 20000 lines, a new one with 30000 lines probably won't be noticeably better in the average living room.

//Ken

#12 of 12 Richard Paul

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Posted April 02 2003 - 01:44 PM

If it's 1080p at 24fps converted to 1080i/30fps, that's just regular telecine, and can be undone.


I was not referring to 3-2 pulldown processing which can detect movie based content, but that when the 1080p frame is changed into 1080i fields that they reduce the vertical resolution to prevent interlace artifacts such as twitter. The reduction of vertical detail is done to prevent interlace from being noticeable which is why 1080i upconverted to 1080p would have a reduced vertical detail compared to native 1080p.

I agree that if you were to get high enough in resolution there would be no advantage in increasing it. Truth is that even 1080p is not picture perfect, but should be good enough for at least the next 50 years.


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