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Will Streaming end our DVD Collecting?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Joe Karlosi, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. Traveling Matt

    Traveling Matt Well-Known Member

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    It's nice that the studios don't have to deal with discs but, for a consumer, you're now dealing with the cumbersome issues of both hard copies (something else to keep track of, damage, lose, etc) and soft copies (load times, buffer issues, HD crashes, etc).

     

    If it's going to be soft copy, it should be all soft. This concept is just silly.
     
  2. ChuckWL

    ChuckWL Well-Known Member

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    I thought downloads were soft copy?? BTW... The company doing this MOD Systems is a member of the Ultraviolet Consortium. As far as HD crashes the article states the following:

    "Winsor said registered users would always have access to purchased content should their computer hard drives crash." Of course I would like to see the UL fine print before I sign on. :)
     
  3. Jason_V

    Jason_V Well-Known Member

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    ^ That should be expected, not a "special feature." If you download something-anything, really-you've paid for and the computer/home server/whatever crashes/gets stolen/dies, you should be able to redownload it with absolutely no problems. I can't tell you the hoops I had to jump through to move my iTunes music to a new computer after my old one got stolen.
     

    What happens, though, if the server with the content crashes and users can't download it. Or you're in an area without acceptible internet access? Physical media doesn't have this problem.

     

    I don't think the price difference between download and physical media will be appreciable enough, either, to get a flood of people on board. I can get movie X on disc for one price. The dowload will cost what? Most likely more with limited portability. Same issue people had with BD at the beginning, if memory serves.

     


    I see this more as an experiment to see how many people are actually interested in a title and the information would be used in the future to see if it makes sense to press discs.  
     
  4. ChuckWL

    ChuckWL Well-Known Member

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    Spot on Jason! Great post!
     
  5. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    I was going to start a brand new thread on this very

    subject but very happy to see that one was already

    very much in progress.


    Here is my situation...


    I have been an avid collector of films for 4 decades.

    I have owned thousands upon thousands of titles in

    various formats. Currently I have about 3,000 DVD

    and Blu-rays in my home stored mostly on shelving.


    However, I have run out space. It has gotten to the

    point where I just have piles of movies in the corner

    of my room.

    Recently, I feel like I had a revelation in my life.

    I walked in my Home Theater room, looked at the

    various piles of films scattered throughout, and
    decided that I needed to stop doing this. In a way
    it seemed like a very unholy feeling. For the first
    time in my life I was questioning the hobby of

    collecting that I had held so dear all these years.


    This idea of just giving up buying titles didn't just

    come to me all at once. There were other influences

    coming into the picture at the same time. For one,

    I am about to purchase my first 3D display that
    has connectivity to Netflix and Vudu. Also, Apple

    has introduced their AppleTV at a $100 pricepoint.

    Suddenly, the option of streaming movies into my

    home is becoming more increasingly available.


    Mind you, there will always be titles that I will
    want to purchase on Blu-ray. However, the days

    of just purchasing DVDs and Blu-rays blindly

    are coming to an end. It doesn't make sense for

    me to spend $20+ per title for something that takes

    up space and that I only will watch once.


    I may have to wait a month after a DVD/BD is

    released to watch it streamed, but the notion of

    paying $4 to watch that movie whenever I want

    to instead of $20 for something I may never watch

    again is a compelling one.


    At this point, I have to admit that I have never

    watched a streamed movie in my life. I do hear

    enough from people that do to know that I should

    expect at least DVD quality which is fine with me

    for those titles I don't need to own. Additionally,

    with yesterday's announcement that Dolby Digital

    is offering 5.1 surround thru Netflix is just another

    compelling reason to switch to streaming.


    I tend to think that streaming is going to kill DVD

    more than Blu-ray is (if it isn't already). Until there

    is a way to bring the necessary broadband into homes

    to support the kind of bandwidth Blu-ray quality demands

    I don't think that format can easily be threatened.


    However, I plainly see the appeal for streaming

    and can understand the speculation that it could

    become the mainstream delivery device for
    entertainment into the homes.


    So, I have a few questions as I begin to become

    a movie streamer myself.


    1. What do you guys think of streaming in general?

    Has it become a satisfying alternative to renting and

    owning DVDs?


    2. How is the streaming quality of Netflix? I love

    the idea of paying a single fee each month to watch

    as many movies as I wish.


    3. Which service has the best HD delivery into the

    homes? How good is the HD and are there picture

    breakup problems?


    4. Anyone have a reason to recommend AppleTV

    if I already have Netflix and can stream movies

    from my computer using Tivo? The only big

    reason I can see for wanting AppleTV is to stream

    my iTunes music straight from the computer.


    Really look forward to hearing your input and

    giving you my initial experiences as I move forward.
     
  6. mdnitoil

    mdnitoil Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting that you bring this up. I too am sitting on about 3000 movies. What was once a neatly organized collection is now a sprawling mess scattered over a number of rooms. I've lost count of the number of discs I've only watched once and my unwatched pile is just too embarrassing to discuss.


    I've gone ahead and dipped my toe into the streaming waters via Netflix. Now, first things first, I'm finding the Netflix streaming experience to be a akin to the HBO experience. By that I mean the first couple of months it seems like you tapped into the horn of plenty, but it doesn't take long before you find yourself deciding there's nothing worth watching that you haven't already seen. The quality has been perfectly fine, provided there's no hickup with my internet connection. Otherwise the movie will pause while the stream gets cached up. It doesn't happen regularly to me, but it has happened.


    With regards to the Apple TV thing, I find myself going in a different direction. I've been putting more and more research into these Media Tank type boxes. In particular I'm currently looking at the C200 Popcorn Hour box. The concept behind these things is that they will stream any local network media you may have. It's an open architecture rather than the proprietary system offered by Apple. The box is loaded with a hard drive and just about every multimedia codec required for file playback, including DRM capability. The drive also hosts a piece of media library software that will evaluate the media you have, rake IMDB, and then categorize everything into an organized searchable library. The big picture idea is to stand up a file server in my house, rip my 3000 discs to the server and point the Media Tank to it. Suddenly, my disaster of a collection becomes fun again. Order out of chaos, so to speak. Then, as MOD eventually gives way to streaming/download, I've already got the infrastructure in place to not only take advantage of it, but automatically incorporate it into my digital library seamlessly. The approach also has one other advantage of minimizing any concerns about the longevity of MOD discs, since they will be ripped to a file server.
     
  7. cineMANIAC

    cineMANIAC Premium
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    Personally, I will never tire of having physical product readily available at my fingertips. Nothing replaces the thrill of having a large collection to ponder over while deciding what to watch and I just can't picture myself scrolling down on a computer screen looking for a movie. Many times a decision to watch a particular film depends on reading the back cover or even looking at artwork. Netflix has helped to prevent me from buying everything and I now rent the films I know I'll only need to watch once. Even thinking of streaming Bridge On the River Kwai sends chills down my spine. No, its physical media for me all the way.
     
  8. mdnitoil

    mdnitoil Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, nobody is talking about streaming Bridge On the River Kwai and there's no reason to as it has always been readily available. Now, Date Night? Yeah, I'll go ahead and stream that.


    If you visit these forums, then almost by definition you would prefer some sort of physical media. I've preferred it to the tune of over 3000 titles. It's well past time for me to make smarter decisions about what needs to be owned and what simply needs to be watched once, in whatever format is available. No matter how hard I try, I find it impossible to convince the wife, or any other sane person for that matter, that there really are 3000 movies that we just have to own.
     
  9. RickER

    RickER Well-Known Member

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    I always keep my collection thinned down to "under 1000". Right now I am at 910 titles, including TV shows. I am sure, if I kept everything I ever owned, including titles I upgraded, I would have 3000, or more titles.

    Years ago, I would blind buy, and if the movie sucked, I could sell it for not much less than I paid for it. But now you get pennies on the dollar for used discs. I rent from NetFlix now. I do the 1 at a time unlimited with Blu-ray. Of course I can stream too, on my TV, and with my PS3. Most of the titles you can stream are older, and many are inferior versions that saw a better version on DVD, or Blu-ray. But hey, for now its a free perk to my NetFlix, so i will not complain about the PQ!


    You know, if I rent something I really like I buy it on DVD/Blu-ray when it goes cheap. Unless of course I really like it (Alien) then I will just buy it no matter the cost. But that is rare, now. My collection is linked, and I think I have a pretty lean, mean collection, that still has enough variety to keep me coming back to it. Not so many titles that I cannot see the tree thru the forest. The reality, is that 900 titles is still a lot, to the average person! People are shocked how many discs I have!
     
  10. Jeff Willis

    Jeff Willis Well-Known Member

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    My DVD collection is also small compared to most here. I have about 475 DVD's with a little more than half movies. My #'s count a TV/DVD season set as "1" in the totals.


    Even with my small collection, I also get the comments similar to you...."Wow, that many?". Unless you're a collector like us, there's not that many people that have large #'s of DVD's at home. At least, that's my perception.


    I'm also similar in that my blind-buy's are not near as frequent as they once were and I only buy a DVD if I know that I will be re-watching it again.


    I haven't entered the streaming mkt but I imagine that I will have to eventually, mainly for older TV series interests. I'm not hooked up to stream and watch on the HD TV.


    From what I've heard, if one has a decent 'net connection, the streaming can compare with SD DVD quality. I have a FIOS 25/23 'net service.


    I'd have to see the streaming picture quality before investing in the format.


    I'm not interested in viewing any TV series or movie on a PC monitor though.
     
  11. SWFF

    SWFF Well-Known Member

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    Quote:


    I think this comment here sums up my feelings on this particular field of movie acquisition perfectly. Except for renting, I don't rent. Did, when I was in my twenties, nowadays, I'll either view it on pay-per-view, or HBO, or SHOWTIME, etc, to see if it's something I'd like to buy. Or, if I'm lucky, win it in an online contest, like I did recently with Fango's Frightfest Giveaway of all 8 of their flicks. In that case, there were two in that collection I seriously wanted to check out, three I have no interest in, and three more ghost/haunted house flicks, I'm kinda curious to see.


    Bottom line . . . like Luis said, I need a physical product in my hand, and DVD artwork to stare at, for me to enjoy continued movie collecting.
     
  12. Mark_TS

    Mark_TS Well-Known Member

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    But "nobody" lives in the hinterlands so being unwired is irrelevant to the situation by sales %-anyway most places get DSL, they just dont have Fibre-optic yet.

    But the studios seem to be shooting themselves in the foot as Blu Ray sales are still meager by % and the masses of americans still own DVD players and will just rent catalog or stream if DVDs stop coming

    I used to buy DVDs regularly and now have bought only 5 this year vs maybe 5 per month up until last year. As they seem to be trying to destroy the DVD market, their cash cow, hoping people will rebuy their libraries on BR. ha!

    Not in this new economy or for a long time to come.

    Further, BR will NEVER get into catalog in depth like DVD did before the NEXT format comes-or streaming is the only way left- movies on optical media will become like VHS and so we are f*cked



    What they really want is for us to stream/lease movies that we can never own. over and over again
     
  13. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Such comments don't make little sense to me. On the one hand you acknowledged that the economy has affected the marketplace in a negative manner, but on the other hand you're saying the studios are destroying the DVD market on purpose which would cut their revenue streams even further in such a poor marketplace. I'm not buying that theory because with overall movie ticket sales down, as far as actual tickets sold, the studios are in desperate straits trying to increase their revenue streams in these bad times. I think the reason why dvd releases of catalog titles slowed down is because the studios aren't making money off of catalog dvd sales, at least not in the traditional sense of marketing them through Wal-Mart and such. The retailers have cut back buying such product from the studios because they weren't selling enough of these titles either. Nobody is making money with these sales which is why the availability of these titles in traditional retailers has been depressed for a good while. Executives keep their jobs by making profits for their company, whether it's a studio or retailer Therefore, it doesn't make sense for any executive to decrease such profits just to promote a new format like BRD, especially during the worse recession that economists have ever seen. My point is that they weren't making a profit with these catalog DVD sales so the marketplace has forced both the studios and retailers to change their strategy in that regard.


    Whether we like to hear this or not, people have found other ways to entertain themselves without buying DVDs of catalog titles. The number of us that do like buying catalog titles and can continue to afford to do so aren't enough to sustain the numbers enough so that the studios are making enough profit to continue to produce such product and then attempt to sell them to the retailers, who in turn can make a profit which in reality, they're not doing so. That development is why we have MOD right now.




    Crawdaddy
     
  14. ChuckWL

    ChuckWL Well-Known Member

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    Yes why would the studios go through the trouble of setting up MOD programs if they were not interested in selling us DVD's?

    I have several thousand DVDs in my collection as well and I plan to continue to purchase more in the years to come. Space may be an issue in the future but I could also take the discs out of the larger boxes and put them in sleeves if I need the room.

    I have streamed several programs from Netflix and they don't look good on my larger projector screen. My husband and I have different tastes in movies and television as I like many of the BBC period series examples "Lark Rises to Candleford" or "Pride and Prejudice". I have noticed that what is available today as a stream on Netflix may not be there tomorrow. I was watching a multi part series recently and almost finished it over several evening but could not finish because the rights to stream had expired and it was "Unavailable" to stream now on the Netflix system. This is what worries me about streaming. Its not always a guarantee that your favorites will be there for you when you want to see them. You lose 100% control over what you can see when you can see it. You are at the mercy of the streamer (netflix).

    Not for me, thanks!


    Edit: I did want to mention that I am all for the ownership of MOD Digital Downloads that you can burn to DVD or Hard Drive as you wish. Hopefully ULTRAVIOLET will address some of the compat. issues when that gets up and running.
     
  15. MadMikeyD

    MadMikeyD Member

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    I will always choose the physical media over a download or stream. I don't want to read books or comics on my computer screen, nor do I want to watch movies on it. That said, I am choosy in what I buy. I rarely make blind buys of anything anymore. Someone in my house is going to have to want to see a movie over and over if I'm going to buy it, therefore most of what I buy are older titles or kids/family titles. Not enough current films interest us enough to buy them anymore.

    However, there is a younger generation out there that seems to want everything on their laptop. Music, movies, books, whatever. If they can't download or stream it, they don't want it. Everything seems to be going digital, so I guess I'll be saving a lot of money in the future.
     
  16. Jeff Willis

    Jeff Willis Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I don't watch movies on my PC even with the HD ws monitor.


    The main concern that I have with this streaming/downloading issue is, "ownership" and access. If the future formats provide a way for the buyer to burn their own DVD-R copy for their library, that's fine.


    But I'm not confident of that yet, that there won't be some kind of "time expiration" encoding, or "copy-protection", etc,


    Just my opinion, but if I'm buying (not renting) a stream or download, I feel that I should be able to have the ability to keep a private copy for my own use.


    If the studios don't implement encoding, preventing a buyer from keeping their own copy of a movie or a TV series, that changes my opinion of the assumed-inevidable upcoming streaming/downloading future (as it relates to replacing physical media).
     
  17. Michael Osadciw

    Michael Osadciw Well-Known Member

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    I prefer my library of films in my vault as I enjoy my library of books in my office.


    I prefer owning physical media. Tangible. Being able to display it.


    BEING PROUD OF OWNING A PIECE OF "THE ART OF FILM"


    After all, giving my money to buy the film on physical media is sort of like investing in it...my dollars are helping paying off the cost to make the film.


    I don't like paying for something and not having something physical in my hands. There is a disconnect of ownership...
     
  18. Joe Karlosi

    Joe Karlosi Well-Known Member

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    Wow, it's sort of unsettling to hear that Ron, one of the owners of HTF, is kind of swaying toward streaming!


    As for me, I will always want to OWN those movies I like and intend to watch more than once. There is a special "pride of ownership" I feel, and I just love having a physical collection of movies.


    Now, when Ron mentioned that he's got way too many DVDs at home, I wonder how many of these are "must haves" with "re-watch potential"? I certainly can understand the senselessness of buying many $20 discs just to have them gather dust and never get watched more than once, if that -- but the trick is to only buy and hang onto those films you wish to "keep" and revisit. Stacking up a pile of DVDs you either haven't watched once or will never watch again is something else.


    I can see streaming being very attractive as a means of replacing "renting" at Blockbuster. Or as a convenient way to watch a movie first before deciding if it's worth a disc purchase. But if there's a movie I love -- say JAWS or BEN-HUR for example -- I MUST own it on a physical disc as a piece in my library. Having an option to "stream it over and over whenever I want to see it again" is not for me. And as others have mentioned, how do we know a movie is going to be available for streaming indefinitely?
     
  19. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    You and I aren't far off from the mark here.


    I stopped purchasing DVDs. I am still buying a remarkable

    amount of BD product this Q4 -- so much so that I had to

    actually cancel some preorders because it was getting too

    expensive.


    All of these films I preordered are titles I already own on

    DVD and some previously owned on laserdisc and VHS.


    Like you, Joe, I am purchasing certain films on BD that

    are important to me and will have value in repeated viewing.


    ...but how many times can I keep repurchasing films

    on every new format that comes along?


    The days of buying a handful of titles every month

    that I'll watch once and then never think of watching again are

    coming to a close.

    Why spend $25 to buy GROWN UPS on Blu-ray when I can

    stream it for $4. For me, that's a film I will only watch once.


    However, films like Ben Hur, Moulin Rouge, Jaws and the

    like will always be a mere arm's reach away on disc.


    I just don't need to have 3,000 titles on my shelves or

    in piles in the corner of the room.
     
  20. Michael Elliott

    Michael Elliott Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Ron here.


    I don't want to mention how many films I actually own since I try to watch everything under the sun but there was a time not too long ago that I'd say I was over 10,000. I've sold just about every DVD and my Blu-ray collection was sold a couple months ago. I still have stuff that I can't rent online and I still have many "budget packs" that simply won't sell but I got a Roku last month and see no reason to ever buy another title. Warner, Sony and Fox have many titles I'm interested in but I'm not pay $15-$25 for a DVD-R. If they decide to stream them somehow then I'd gladly pay $3-$5 to rent them for a night.

    With the Roku device the quality is much better than I thought it would be and Netflix has many titles that aren't on DVD and some that were never even on VHS. Amazon has countless titles at the tip of my finger and many of them are just $1.99. Being an avid film buff, there are PD titles out there being sold by Sinister Cinema that I'd love to see but I'm not paying $10 for a horrid "B" movie that I'm going to watch once and then get stuck with. With the Roku I'm able to rent it for $2.

    The Roku is adding various stations each day but there are thousands and thousands of movies available. Many are free and some are $1-$5.

    I owned hundreds of VHS titles as I started collection at a very young age and remember one of the reasons the format died is because the "shelf space" that was so much better with DVD (plus other reasons). I can't help but think people are tired of having so much room devoted to a hobby. The best way to save space is simply keeping all the stuff on a small device. My DVR currently has 75 movies on it. There are hundreds of free movies and countless PPV options. My Roku, again, has thousands of titles from Ed Wood to Murnau. Renting with Netflix gives me just about every movie on DVD that I could want. I'm just waiting for Warner and the other guys to stream these DVD-Rs they're offering.


    And yes, the economy is having a major effect on people. I deal with people who are losing their houses, cars and lifestyles each and everyday. People are moving to smaller houses/apartments so space is going to be an issue. I never thought Blu-ray was any risk of taking anything over but I do feel that streaming is the way to go and it is the future. I was right on DVD and I think I'll be right here. Joe posted this question at another site we both visit and I mentioned there that "collecting" was dead and I do believe that. Sure, films like AVATAR are always going to sell millions of copies but I think people will just rent the "other" titles in their life.

    Things have simply changed. You can see this in the lack of releases and the fact that amazing titles and discs are now being sold for $3 at Big Lots. You can tell that the only thing on the shelves at Target and Wal-Mart are those "budget" releases that Warner keeps releasing. People are tight with their money and it's in more ways than just movies. Take a look at the concert scene and the trouble they're in. Look at the music. I'm sure other hobbies are down as well.

    Now I know not everyone is as extreme as I am when it comes to movie watching but the unlimited ability of having thousands of titles on a small, 6x6 device is something I think people are going to look into. Plus, if someone does have 3000 DVDs in your collection, if you watch 300 of them a year then it's going to take 10 years to get through your collection and this doesn't include titles you add. It doesn't include new TV shows, new theatrical releases and so on. I once loved the idea of owning things but that was because there wasn't any option. Now, there are just too many options and I waiting this long to mention TCM.
     

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