A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ Tenebre -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Vincent_P]

First off, where did this silly notion that a title has to "sell out" to be a financial success come from?


It's really quite simple- if the DEMONS and DEMONS 2 sale model wasn't successful for Synapse, they wouldn't do it again.


Vincent

Unfortunately the "we're only a tiny company" argument has been done to death and appears to be invalid.

88films are a 2 man band and their releases are £8.99 on Amazon although some of their website exclusives can be £20.


Even Code Red - apparently a one man band can offer reasonable releases.


Over on Bluray.com there are excuses galore from the size of the company ( is it big - is it small -who knows) to the extra restoration costs and other such stuff but none of it stands up.


If anything , being a small company should be a financial advantage to Synapse. If that is the case then marketing a key title like this where the return could take years is financially irresponsible. Small companies need cash flow - and that means selling titles quickly. Synapse are doing a Twilight Time and forcing their business model on consumers but in their case they don't seem to be contractually bound to do so and definitely are not restricted to the number of units they can sell.

I don't recall these tactics with Synapse dvd releases and IIRC the guy behind Synapse was also the man who ran Roan that brought lots of Hammer Horror to LD - slightly higher than mainstream titles but nothing on this scale.


At least it might quieten down all those people who have been asking about the upcoming release of Suspiria for a couple of years only to be told its still years away as it seems almost certain that Suspiria will be sold on a similar basis

 

[Vincent_P]

AGAIN, since when does the title have to sell out to make a profit? If a company is really running their business that way- hedging their bets on a title selling out in order to make a profit- then they're doing something seriously wrong.


And nobody is being "exploited". Nobody is forced to buy a movie on Blu-ray. Talk about hyperbolic nonsense!


Vincent

Yes, but it's not good business to take 5 years to get your money back.

The Arrow steelbook is a nice item and while I'm sure the Synapse one will be also I just feel that buyers are being exploited.

Of course it's the international postage that kills it for me but I still think the item price alone is too high.


I don't really follow dollar prices and I buy a lot of US releases but I don't recall being annoyed at prices like the special multi disc releases of things like The Beyond or Cannibal Ferox/Holocaust so are there actually any other US titles that are not big box editions where prices along the lines of Synapse are charged?

 

[Vincent_P]

Yes, it's such an unpopular, unsuccessful business plan that they're doing it again...


And the Synapse release of TENEBRAE has had *EXTENSIVE* addition image restoration done to it to remove several hundred digital glitches/DNR artifacts that were baked into the master (this work is detailed in the booklet that will be included with the release, which also includes a sample page of the notes Don sent to the restoration house which will give an idea of JUST HOW MUCH work was done).


Plus, it also exclusively includes the very rare English insert shots that they remastered in 2K from an archival 35mm print (the only known video version prior to this to have all of these inserts was an Israeli VHS release).


Vincent

They will. But they'd be foolish to give any hint of that at this stage.

Unlike Demons , Tenebrae had already a superb release from Arrow and also in a steelbook and unlike Demons there are no audio tracks missing on the Arrow version so there are fewer reasons for those with an Arrow release to double dip.


Then again , Tenebrae is way better than Demons and one of Argentos best so perhaps that might be enough.

On the Synapse site Don May also says they still have a couple of boxes still remaining of the original Demons steelbooks which to me is an indication of just how unpopular this marketing ploy is.

 

[Vincent_P]

Regarding Demons - as I said above, the fact they still have a couple of boxes left after all this time speaks volumes.

Yes, it says they pressed enough steelbooks to satisfy initial high demand and then have copies left over to continue to sell at conventions and on their website for years to come. What a stupid business model!


Vincent

 

[Jeff Adkins]

If this were a big studio with huge financial backing, I'd be complaining. However, it's evident to me that Don May is doing these releases more out of a love for the films than to get rich. Outside of Criterion, I'm hard-pressed to think of any other company that would bother doing this amount of restoration on a film like this.


Would you guys be happier with a sub-par version from Lions Gate that would sell for $15 or so? Not me.

 

[Powell&Pressburger]

Why would you assume that they are paying an employee to pack these up? After all,they're not paying employees to manufacturer the product. Most likely, their distribution is subcontracted out on-the-cheap to a warehouse so they don't have to pay benefits or a decent wage.

Any discussion of rising costs in illogical, because this is a one-off charge on a steelbook item only.

Now, if anyone wants to justify a $6 dollar incremental charge for shipping a slightly heavier product, a larger box and some bubble wrap, have at it.

If I recall correctly when the Demons steelbooks started shipping it was Don May and some help all working hard packaging their product to ship! The shipped those immaculately! Sick of people arguing over pricing for shipping ect. it does cost money for bubble wrap and packaging materials and boxes! And what cost they don't use believe me they earn for their hard work. I think a few kind fans of Synapse over at BLU-Ray forum even took up a collection and ordered pizza for them one day as they were working hard trying to get the discs out to the fans as quickly as possible.

If anyone wants to argue over the shipping costs then don't buy it I doubt they really need the drama. Synapse hardly puts out BLUs and when they do I don't mind paying a premium for such great transfers and the work involved. maybe I cut back on a few other releases that are NOT limited and pick them up at a later date.

 

[Robert Harris]

But what about John Wayne's The Alamo?

The Alamo, in its special edition, will also be packaged as a steelbook, with matching flint, and as a protective device around the disc, genuine coonskin...


An announcement should be forthcoming from MGM shortly.


RAH

 

[Derrick King]

As with Arrow , MoC etc . I don't have a problem with their Limited Editions . I'm not too familiar with many but the Arrow ones so lets look at them


This week Arrow released a 3 disc LE of 3000 of Deep Red. 2 discs + a cd soundtrack. And for half the price of the Synapse Tenebrae and it also included lobby cards and a poster too. Not only that the fair price meant it sold out before release despite the fact that Arrow followed their normal path of announcing there WOULD be a standard release in a few months.


Their higher than normal priced Limited Editions always offer a lot of additional content to justify it and are usually lavish boxsets.

The MSRP of the Arrow set was £24.99, which is about $35 US, a whole $5 less than Synapse's MSRP for TENEBRAE. (the reason Arrow's DEEP RED sold out before release date is because it was delayed two months. So, from announcement to sell out was about 5 or 6 months.)


You do understand that it costs a lot more for Synapse to license these films for the US market than it costs Arrow to license them for the UK?

If this were a big studio with huge financial backing, I'd be complaining. However, it's evident to me that Don May is doing these releases more out of a love for the films than to get rich. Outside of Criterion, I'm hard-pressed to think of any other company that would bother doing this amount of restoration on a film like this.


Would you guys be happier with a sub-par version from Lions Gate that would sell for $15 or so? Not me.

That is utter nonsense, Jeff. Lionsgate would never release a catalog horror title on Blu-ray..

 

[Bryan^H]

$48.35 I'm sure it will be worth it. I was wondering about My favorite Argento films being released. I heard mention of 'Phenomena', and 'Suspirira' coming to Blu-Ray. I thought they were to be released late last year, anyone have any news on them?

 

[Vincent_P]

$48.35 I'm sure it will be worth it. I was wondering about My favorite Argento films being released. I heard mention of 'Phenomena', and 'Suspirira' coming to Blu-Ray. I thought they were to be released late last year, anyone have any news on them?

PHENOMENA is close and will be out in a couple months. SUSPIRIA is still knee-deep in production (4K restoration).


Vincent

 

[TravisR]

PHENOMENA is close and will be out in a couple months. SUSPIRIA is still knee-deep in production (4K restoration).


Vincent

I don't know if it's been decided yet or if you can say but should we expect the same steelbook/3,000 LE for Phenomena as well?

 

[turtledove]

What you call the middle finger, I call offering people a more inexpensive option. If people want the premium product, they have to pay for it. And if they had released the same Demons discs in a standard case, you'd be complaining that they ripped everyone off for the steelbook all the while scheming to release a cheaper version.

The standard release could have been the same price regardless of whether the extras were included or not but to needlessly remove audio tracks stinks - but there are always fanboys for every label so carry on.

 

[turtledove]

First off, where did this silly notion that a title has to "sell out" to be a financial success come from?


It's really quite simple- if the DEMONS and DEMONS 2 sale model wasn't successful for Synapse, they wouldn't do it again.


Vincent

And there was me thinking the idea of the Limited Edition model was to ensure speedy sales at the maximum price.

A LE like Demons still being available several years later can hardly be called a roaring success.


Anyone in business with half a brain will tell you that stock still sitting around 3 or 4 years after it went on sale is not really as popular as you might like it to be

 

[turtledove]

Yes, it says they pressed enough steelbooks to satisfy initial high demand and then have copies left over to continue to sell at conventions and on their website for years to come. What a stupid business model!


Vincent

I'm assuming you don't run your own business.

Clueless doesnt begin to cover it

 

[turtledove]

If this were a big studio with huge financial backing, I'd be complaining. However, it's evident to me that Don May is doing these releases more out of a love for the films than to get rich.

I agree.

I can't think of any other reason to embark on such an obviously poor business model a second time.


Clearly they don't need a quick return and are happy to get their money back over a long period.


They simply don't want people to get the work done on Tenebrae on the cheap.


The documentary sounds interesting. Has it been on any Arrow or 88films releases like some of the other High Rising documentaries have?

 

[turtledove]

The MSRP of the Arrow set was £24.99, which is about $35 US, a whole $5 less than Synapse's MSRP for TENEBRAE. (the reason Arrow's DEEP RED sold out before release date is because it was delayed two months. So, from announcement to sell out was about 5 or 6 months.)

RRP is irrelevant.

If Synapse made their titles available from places like Amazon , just as Arrow do they would likely sell faster and be priced cheaper.


Deep Red was delayed 4 months.

It was due in October originally , then delayed until December then delayed again

 

[turtledove]

I don't know if it's been decided yet or if you can say but should we expect the same steelbook/3,000 LE for Phenomena as well?

Pretty obvious isn't it?

And don't be surprised if the price of Suspiria is even higher - that is if it ever comes out.

It was announced 2 years ago IIRC and reports are that it won't be out this year either.


The Synapse Tenebrae looks like a very nice package but the Arrow steelbook was very nice so the $69 required is a bit too high to double dip.

If we'd not had Arrows improved version and / or steelbook it wouldn't seem as hard to justify.


3 versions of Phenomena on that will make that a more desirable purchase I think

 

[Vincent_P]

And there was me thinking the idea of the Limited Edition model was to ensure speedy sales at the maximum price.
A LE like Demons still being available several years later can hardly be called a roaring success.


Anyone in business with half a brain will tell you that stock still sitting around 3 or 4 years after it went on sale is not really as popular as you might like it to be

I'm assuming you don't run your own business.

Clueless doesnt begin to cover it

For the 6th or 7th or 8th time (I've lost count), if this business model wasn't successful for Synapse on the DEMONS titles, they would not have done it again. This business model also seems to be working out fine for Twilight Time, who only sell out of a handful of their limited edition titles. Most of their Blu-rays are still available for years after release, and they're not going out of business or losing money.


But by all means, continue to call people who disagree with you clueless and keep telling Synapse how they should run their business. They've only been doing this for 18 years now, they clearly need you to swoop in and save them from themselves.


Vincent

 

[TravisR]

The standard release could have been the same price regardless of whether the extras were included or not but to needlessly remove audio tracks stinks - but there are always fanboys for every label so carry on.

Just because I disagree with your complaints doesn't mean that I'm a fanboy. However, if calling me a fanboy makes it easier for you to dismiss me then go for it.


For the record, I own maybe 10 titles that Synpase has released on DVD and Blu-ray so if I'm a fanboy, I'm not a very good one. I will say that all of the Synapse titles that I own have been excellent and so I have high expectations for Tenebre too.

 

[Ruz-El]

For $39 bucks from Synapse you get a restored bluray, a DVD, alternate scenes, documentary, CD soundtrack and limited edition steel book packaging among other things.


for $21 from the Warner Archive you get a MOD DVD with the film maybe restored and possible a trailer.


Synapse is giving me a better value...