The WWE™ (1 Viewer)

[Terrell]

That's what I see as part of the problem Marvin. Vince said they were a reall threat to the WWF, that they were a poison. Then what did he do? Right after establshing them as a real threat, he had Austin squash them. That totally ruined any credibility they had as legitimate threats to the WWF. Now the audience doesn't take them seriously. And if we go by ratings, the NWO is starting to fade already. I attribute this to two things.

1. The statements I made above

2. The NWO angle is nothing more than a rehash that's been beaten to death.

Now, I don't think anyone wanted to see the NWO dominate for 6 months like they did in WCW. But they should have at least dominated for maybe 3-4 weeks. Maybe they will. Maybe we haven't seen it yet. But another problem, does anyone really take a 50+ year old Hogan, a 45year old Nash, and a 40+ year old Hall as serious threats? Probably not. How old is Hall anyway? He's gotta be 40, at least. I know Nash is well over 40.

 

[Ryan_M_M]

But another problem, does anyone really take a 50+ year old Hogan, a 45year old Nash, and a 40+ year old Hall as serious threats? Probably not. How old is Hall anyway? He's gotta be 40, at least. I know Nash is well over 40.

Hogan is 48

Hall is 43

Nash is 42

I don't mind this angle since I stopped watching for 6 years having been a huge fan in the 1980s and early 90s. They aren't serious threats, but they sell a story to people that have maybe stopped watching wrestling. It's good to see a recap of what the nWo was. The Rock's continual presense as a face is becoming a lot more boring and stale. He's been saying the same tripe for the past 2 years. The WWF really need to re-develope him. I was in hysterics seeing the nWo pounce on him.

That "WHAT?!" chant has got to go.

 

[Terrell]

Hogan was 48 when he was in WCW. He was about 46 when he came to WCW. Hogan's at least 50. As for the other two, that's probably about right. But Hogan is older than 48. He may want us to think that. But I don't believe Hogan is 48.

That "WHAT?!" chant has got to go.

That is annoying.

 

[Ryan_M_M]

Hogan was 48 when he was in WCW. He was about 46 when he came to WCW. Hogan's at least 50. As for the other two, that's probably about right. But Hogan is older than 48. He may want us to think that. But I don't believe Hogan is 48.

Hogan is 48. He was born Augest 11th 1953. Any source via the Internet will confirm that.

 

[Terrell]

Well, if not 50 he certainly looks it. Thanks for the info.

 

[teapot2001]

Uh, can you quote me examples of Goldberg being violent in public? No Thi, don't think you can because he hasn't. The only incident was him yelling at HHH for making derogatory comments about him in an interview, and even then it was just yelling. Something he admits he was wrong in. Let's don't make stuff up about the guy.

Notice I said "supposedly."

The problem with the NWO is that they haven't been as destructive as they were in WCW nor as Vince McMahon promoted them to be. In addition, each wrestler hardly has his original personality. McMahon wanted ratings, I think it would have been more successful to let them be themselves and let the fans decide who they want to cheer or boo. It wouldn't have hurt WWF if they had been a destructive force from No Way Out all the way to Wrestlemania. Rock is returning the week before Wrestlemania, so he could have teamed up with Austin to get the long awaited payback.

Reports from house shows indicated that Hogan is in great shape and that Hall isn't.

Hopefully the split will make angles and wrestlers more fresh. If you do the math, the way The Rock has been appearing in WWF for the past 2 years would have been equivalent to 4 or more years several years ago.

Bret Hart was offered by WWF to make an appearance at Wrestlemania as a special guest referee for the WWF title match. He also said that they would let him punch Vince McMahon in front of the Toronto crowd. He turned it down. Also, WWF had plans for Hart to be part of the invasion angle last year, but McMahon failed to meet Hart.

~T

 

[Jeff Kleist]

That's Bret Hart, being a whiny little moron as usual

He caused the Screwjob himself, by refusing to drop the belt at the PPV. If he didn't want to drop it in Canada, then he should have extended his contract so that he'd drop it on the next PPV. Vince would not have his people go to another company wearing his belt, and that was beyond "reasonable control" that he had. I'm sure the no one was in on it except Earl Hebner who was actually involved in the match. Vince has made his peace offering, and Bret has rejected it, so he can go be a spoiled brat all he wants. I just hope he saved those fat WCW paychecks

 

[Moe Maishlish]

Jeff,
Let's not forget that Brett's brother Owen was killed three years ago during a WWF Pay-Per-View stunt that went horribly wrong.
I think it's probably a little unfair of you to be calling him a whiny little whatever given those past events. You'll remember the Hart family blaming the McMahon's for Owen's accident, and the WWF settling with the Hart family in court.
I'm sure he's got some pretty negative feelings for the WWF that have absolutely nothing to do with him having lost the title to Shawn Micheals the way he did. Given the circumstances, I can more than understand if Brett wants no part of the WWF.
Moe.

 

[Kevin J Willis]

Bret did not deserve what happened to him in montreal. Vince screwed bret that night. I'm tired of the WWF marks who think Vince can do no wrong. He can. He is the greatest promoter of all time, no doubt, but he is an evil person. Remember, he did this to Wendy Ricther in 85 after she wanted to have a lawyer look at a contract which was prposed by The WWF. Not wanting Ricther to do this, they pulled the same screwjob on her.

 

[Marvin Richardson]

He is the greatest promoter of all time, no doubt, but he is an evil person.

Oh, COME ON! Give me a freakin' break. What are you, twelve? I think you're confusing his on air persona with his real life one. He's evil? How can you even say that! Do you have some intimate knowledge of him that you'd care to share with the rest of us?

I'm tired of the Bret Hart marks who think Bret can do no wrong. He can. He is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, no doubt, but he is a bitter person.

Be serious, it took two people for the Montreal screwjob to happen. It took Vince, who wouldn't let Bret go out the way he wanted, and it took Bret to think that he was bigger than the WWF. I guess he found out the hard way when he left the WWF that he wasn't.

 

[teapot2001]

Bret Hart should be bitter after what happened to him. As I remember, he had a creative control clause in his contract, and therefore didn't have to lose to Shawn Michaels at all. But he was willing to lose the next night on Raw. And after all those years with WWF, Hart deserved to go out the way he wanted and McMahon should have trusted him.

I don't think McMahon has made peace with Hart, he just wants Hart back when WWF needs him for success. There have been several recreations of and references to the Montreal screw job, and if I remember correctly, they even did it in front of the Hart family who were at ringside on a Raw.

~T

 

[Kevin J Willis]

Vince won't let it go with Bret. Likewise Bret won't let it go with Vince. Maybe Me calling Vince Evil was a bit strong, but he is an egomaniac.

 

[Marvin Richardson]

Exactly. When you're dealing with two egos that huge (and after watching Wrestling with Shadows, Bret does have a huge ego, and everyone knows Vince does) something like that is bound to happen. I don't know that Vince still holds anything against Bret, but I'd imagine Bret does. And frankly, while it might not be rational, I can understand him not wanting to work for Vince when his brother died there, even if it was an accident.

I really wanted Bret to do well in WCW, but they just didn't seem to have any idea what to do with him. Just shows you how screwed up that company was. They have one of the most charismatic, talented wrestlers in the history of the business, and they can't figure out what to do with him. I wish he'd come back to the WWF, if only because he deserves to go out better than he has.

 

[Terrell]

Brett's had some terrible things happen to him and his family. I wish it hadn't happened. But the fact is Bret is a whiny, crybaby. This industry made him rich. It gave him a secure life for he and his family. And Bret became famous from wrestling. And he constantly whines about Vince and wrestling. Hey, I'm no fan of Vince McMahon at all. But it's time to let that go. The only time I hear Vince talk about it is when asked in interviews. Let it go Bret, stop whining, and enjoy life.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Bret's contract said REASONABLE creative control. This did not include walking off with McMahon's belt to the competition.

Is Vince evil? No. Is Vince a buisnessman first and foremost? YES. He wants what will be best for his company. Things have changed quite a bit from the 80's era of constant house shows and months on the road. The boys get days off EVERY week. They can take leave to heal without worrying, he treats them right for the most part. If Vince were evil, Hogan, Hall, and Nash would not be there right now, because they abandoned him. But he wants what's best for his company and is willing to let bygones be bygones. Heck, he even offered to Brett that he could punch him out at Wrestlemania. Why do you think so many people are working in Connecticut now? Jim Cornette, Sgt Slaugter, Bob Backlund, Al Snow etc. He's taking care of them when they retire. Heck, even though Mick Foley is off the active radar, guess who's still booking his appearances, maintaining his web site etc?

I loved Owen Hart, he was a gentleman and a wonderful performer. He made a mistake, in a stunt he loved doing and was a full supporter of. It's a HORRIFIC tragedy that this man is dead. But you know what? If you could ask Owen today, he'd probably say he'd do it again.

 

[teapot2001]

Bret loved wrestling and WWF. He seemed to have a very good relationship with Vince McMahon, might have been able to call them friends. Put yourself into his position to see how you would feel when a "friend" has betrayed you and the life you love has changed dramatically. I know I would be as bitter as he is. Add to that everything that has happened with his family. I think why you hear it so much is because that incident has to be brought up whenever Bret is interviewed, just like a former WCW employee will be asked why WCW failed.

It's a shame what happened to Bret in WCW. He got off to a great start with the feud with Flair then they lost focus on him (I can't believe he put over Will Sasso). He was on the rebound when Russo took over leading the new NWO, but unfortunately Goldberg ended his wrestling career.

~T

 

[teapot2001]

*****Raw 3/04/02*****

This thread will need some organization.

I thought Raw was okay. I was tired so that might have something to do with my opinion.

Is DDP also helping Vince McMahon?

I really liked Booker T and Austin until the run-in. Booker T should be more aggresive like he was last night and in WCW instead of the stylized wrestling he's been doing.

RVD and Storm wasn't as good as the match on Sunday Night Heat.

It looks like WWF listened to my complaints because Hall's, Nash's, and Hogan's personalities are starting to shine.

David Flair looks like he's in good shape. It was wise of him to dye it to brown or back to his original hair color.

~T

 

[Ryan_M_M]

Anyone here sick of the Rock being a face? I am really bored with this guy. He needs a heel turn. Every week it's the same act. I laughed at Hall, during the nWo attack, looking through the ambulance and shouting, "Do you smell what you're cooking Rock?!". Classic stuff.

 

[teapot2001]

Rock has been overexposed like many other wrestlers in WWF. With the upcoming split, hopefully we will only see guys once a week on television. I don't want to see him turn heel again. He probably has the record for most turns in a year or two year period.

~T

 

[Jason P]

Thi,

Name me all these mysterious heel/face turns. He began the WWF at Survivor Series 96 as a face, turned into a heel in 97 because the fans hated him. He stayed a heel until mid to late 98 where he toyed around being a face, until he turned full heel again at Survivor Series 98. He stayed that way until shortly after WM 15 in 99, and he's been a face ever since then.

By my count he's only turned 4 times over a 5 and a half year career, and basically been a face for the past three years which is unheard in this wrestling day and age. Heck, Austin's turned more times in the past year than Rock. Hardly a record.

I, personally, think it's about time for a turn. Whether or not the fans will let him is another story.