***Official Blue Laser Software Disc. Thread*** (f/k/a "Hi-Def DVDs by Christmas?") (1 Viewer)

[Ricardo C]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question (I AM a newbie, after all ) but, why would studios object to consumers having high-quality copies of their product? As long as the HD copies of the film are released after they've milked the product in theaters for all it's worth, what's the problem?

 

[RobertR]

As long as the HD copies of the film are released after they've milked the product in theaters for all it's worth, what's the problem?

The problem is that once a person has that HD copy, the studio will NEVER be able to get that person to pay to see the film in ANY other venue EVER again. This would be anathema to people who love to sell us the same product over and over.

 

[Ricardo C]

I'm not so sure about that... Even if sometime in the next few years I get to own HD copies of my favorite films (Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc.) I'd still love to have them re-released in theaters. Although I'll be the first to buy an HD player when and if they become available, I doubt I'll be able to get a 50 foot screen to go with it

 

[ChristopherS]

The only benefit I can see for this is in the distribution of movies to DLP theaters. After the movie is finished its run, every HD-DVD is returned to the Studio or the theater chain gets a very heavy fine (tens of thousands of dollars or more per missing HD-DVD). In this way the masses do not have ownership of a HD master and it saves the studios from having to run off thousands of film copies for the opening of their films. There iwill be no confusion at the consumer level with dualling technologies as it will not be made available to consumers. It will also ensure that people continue to patronize the movie theaters (who wouldn't want to see LOTR in all its HD glory). But who pays for the conversion of these theaters to Digital projectors?

Chris

 

[RobertR]

I'd still love to have them re-released in theaters.

I think you may be atypical. I see quite a few posts from people willing to kiss off the movie theater experience (check out threads dealing with the increasing level of public rudeness) so that they can enjoy films in the privacy of their homes. Once they have HD available, that would REALLY want them to stay away from theaters. And don't forget the loss of revenue to ANY potential pay per view venue, including cable, satellite, broadcast, etc.

 

[Peter Kline]

Interesting comments. Way back when there was no public outcry for DVD. The masses were happy with VHS. Super VHS made little inroads in the marketplace and of course Laserdisc was practically DOA. So now a better product is on the horizon and, of all people, some HTFers seem to be against it! Am I missing something here. All technology changes, mostly for the better, so why shouldn't consumers have the ability to see films at home that rival theatres. Currently DVD's are a compromise visually. Having a alternative to this low rez format is not bad. It will help drive HDTV sales just as DVD helped drive large sceen television. Oh well, I guess progress is not important?. The studios are in the business of making money and they won't turn down that opportunity.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Bottom line, somewhat repeating what has been said

1- CSS was supposedly unbreakable, yeah, that worked out really well. Do you really think studios will let out copies of movies that are literally virtually equal to their studio master without an amazing copy protection system on there?

2- DVD is 25% or less of the way through it's media life cycle, they've just gotten a good percentage of their catalog out on DVD, do you really think they're going to start over now? Especially when 1% of Americans or less own an HD set? Forget it. You're going to have to be looking at a minimum of 40% HDTV penetration before they even think about it. DVHS is an easy thing to run off, it's cheap for them to produce, and keeps the geeks happy. That's why it's happening.

3-YES we could make HD-DVD today, but just because we CAN doesn't mean it WILL happen.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

Hi-def or not, I've blown off theatrical viewings, so there's nothing lost there, but it makes little sense to introduce a competitor to DVD this soon into its lifespan, unless the discs are priced 4 times more than a standard DVD. I still don't think blue laser is a viable technology, or capable of delivering good enough quality to be worth the upgrade. FMD on the other hand would allow for far less compression, which is still the enemy of perfect presentation.

Even when hi-def is mainstream, there will be no shortage of rereleases with miraculously found new masters warranting a new version. Thinking otherwise is folly.

All this talk of new formats does is potentially curb a growing collectors market for DVD.

 

[Ricardo C]

Robert: I'm not that atypical. Check my own reply to the thread in question. I've seen TWO movies in theaters in the last two years. In fact, this year will be rare in that it will get me into theaters for two films (Episode II and The Two Towers.) I DO avoid theaters for the most part (been doing so since Beta! lol) But there will always be a few select films that will make me want to experience them in the largest screen possible. The main point here is that my philosophy regarding movie theaters didn't come about because of DVD. It's been there all along. I thinkq uite a few more people are on the same boat. Studios won't suffer for introducing HD home video. On thew contrary, we (the hardcore) will love them more for it, and if it's possible, we'll make MORE "impulse buys" of films we never would have checked out otherwise.

As for cable TV and pay per view... Just because I have DVD doesn't mean I don't still have my premium cable subscription. And I'll continue to have it. I have The Simpsons on DVD, and yet I plop down to watch the reruns on FOX Latino every night.

Home video formats have always seemed threatening to studios when first announced. But has the industry suffered because of Beta, VHS, LD; and now DVD? On the contrary. HD DVD can only bring in more money for them.

 

[Jon_W]

I don't think the space capacity of the blue laser discs is all that strange given the capacity of DVD today. A single layered disc can hold about 2 hours of standard video, whereas blue laser will be able to hold about 2 hours of HD video.

I think it will be quite a number of years before we see any type of new HD-DVD players out. Just beacuse the laser technology is there does not mean the other technology is. Plus I just don't see studios ready to support it yet.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

So now a better product is on the horizon and, of all people, some HTFers seem to be against it!

I don't think hardly any of us are against it, we just understand the business and political reality of the situation.

There will not be a consumer, movie-oriented HD-DVD format within 2 years. Probably not within 5 years. Do I wish that were not the case? Sure!

 

[Jack Briggs]

Hey, Peter: Speaking for myself at least, let me say I am in no way opposed to being offered the opportunity to enjoy films in the home theater in the best possible way. I would love to have high-def DVD. But the studios don't want me to have it. And they're the reason anything like HD-DVD is a while off. Wish it were otherwise, but them's the breaks,. JB

 

[Peter Kline]

Fellows. OK you're not against it but you sure seem hesitant on supporting it. First of all, as I said, HD VHS is just around the corner, so the studios do see a marketplace for it. Home hi def video, in whatever form, cannot help but push sales of HDTV I think. The studios realize enormous profits from home video and that's the bottom line. The announcement was probably made because of the recent HD VHS. It's a definate niche market at the moment and will take at least 5 or 6 years to penetrate the joe six pack consumer. But wasn't that the time frame for DVD? As long as the US recession subsides within the next 18 months, you'll be seeing players and software by the end of the year or early next year. I've already spoken to a friend who mastered DVD's for Simitar and he says mastering is not a problem it's gonna happen and the studios will support it. So, mark my words and may you live long and prosper, as the world turns and the beat goes on.............

 

[RobertR]

As for cable TV and pay per view... Just because I have DVD doesn't mean I don't still have my premium cable subscription

Here again, I think you may be atypical. When DVD became widely available (including nearby rental outlets), I dropped all premium services, and I think most people with HD sets did the same thing. The only reason people with such sets bother at ALL with HBO, etc. now is the Hidef channel (I get it but don't pay for it). But once HDDVD is available, why bother with HBO at ALL, especially since they butcher 2.35:1 films to fit a 16:9 screen? There goes that nice monthly revenue stream....

 

[Ricardo C]

Here again, I think you may be atypical. When DVD became widely available (including nearby rental outlets), I dropped all premium services, and I think most people with HD sets did the same thing. The only reason people with such sets bother at ALL with HBO, etc. now is the Hidef channel (I get it but don't pay for it). But once HDDVD is available, why bother with HBO at ALL, especially since they butcher 2.35:1 films to fit a 16:9 screen? There goes that nice monthly revenue stream....

Convenience. I don't intend to buy every single disc that comes out. I still like to simply turn on the TV and catch a syndicated rerun, even if I own the show on DVD. Many, MANY people want that, and will continue to pay for it.

 

[RobertR]

It's been happenning since the very inception of home video.

Yes, but the difference THIS time is that the studios will have a tough time selling a "new, improved" format, since Hidef will be so close to film. Hence my "end of future revenues" comment.

 

[Ricardo C]

Yes, but the difference THIS time is that the studios will have a tough time selling a "new, improved" format, since Hidef will be so close to film. Hence my "end of future revenues" comment.

Let's say that the average HT fan can have a large screen and a crisp HD copy of the movie. When you add in a good sound system, you're enjoying a BETTER experience than you did in theaters. Why should this bother studios?
1. Release the next super-duper film event.
2. Milk it for the next few months in theaters.
3. Release a pristine HD DVD of it and watch the hundreds of millions roll in from both purchases and rentals.
Very few films enjoy enough popularity to warrant a re-release. And ANY lost revenue from those hypothetical re-releases would be more than made up for by the large amounts buyers would sink into their HD video collection.
Let me make an analogy to the video game market. Ten years ago, we had to settle for low-grade home versions of popular arcade games. Try as they might, the Genesis and Super Nintendo could never deliver a version of Street Fighter II that matched the original. They came quite close, yes, but the only way to get the real arcade experience was to go to the local arcade. With the advent of the Playstation, N64 and their succesors, that ended. Home versions of popular arcade games are at times BETTER than the original. Has this hurt the game developers? Quite the contrary. Once they've milked their arcade titles for all they're worth, they can count on a HUGE additional windfall from home version sales, since fans of the game will want to "bring the arcade home." I believe the same will prove true for HD home video.
I just hope studios realize HD DVD is not their enemy and will not push it back. I'd be willing to pay extra if it means it can come out and co-exist with standard DVD.

 

[Greg_M]

The studios won't settle for the "buy it once on HD-DVD" There is another highly profitable media out there: TV. Cable television, combined with network TV, Pay-Per-View and Video-On-Demand: all reasons why the studios don't want you owning a high-def transfer on a film. They want you to keep paying each time you view a film, just as people did in the days before TV, when movie theaters were the only venue. DVD will be around for a few more years - HD-DVD will be better.

Regarding cable revnue: movies are sold in blocks, mainly to get the "A" list films, all others (older films)come with it in the set price. If an "A" list film has been saturated in the video market, it won't get as high a price with the cable market, the "A" titles are what make the sale.

 

[Ricardo C]

They care about people still paying for their cable subs. Which most people still do, even though we have superior copies of the movies they show us on regular HBO/Cinemax/Playboy/what have you.

I own The Phantom Menace on DVD. Gorgeous transfer, kickass sound, loaded with extras, etc. I'm not very likely to watch it if it comes on on cable (which it has recently). But I keep paying for the subscription, because I like to have the option to watch random movies if I feel like it. As long as we keep paying for cable, they'll be happy. HDTV and HD DVD will not be any different, even if HD DVD matches the quality of an HDTV broadcast.

As for pay per view... Feh. I never bother with that crap anyway.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

As far as the threat to theatrical rereleases, let's be somewhat realistic in agreeing that the number of films which actually get a theatrical rerelease are pretty minor, and as such, a hi-def format is not going to threaten the theatre market for first run films which are the overwhelming majority of theatrical revenue. Those few films which do get a second run (at premiere theatres, not bargain ones) are likely to be restored or remastered versions, which would not be available on home video anyway.

I would love to have close to film quality on home video, but having seen the number of reissues of titles, I am not going to be jumping on a new bandwagon any time soon. Blue laser is a possible delivery medium, but FMD offers the chance to not only have hi-def, but also have it as uncompressed as possible. If I am going to reinvest in media, I might as well skip the interim version and hold out for the best. There simply isn't enough storage on a blue laser disc to compete with FMD.

Also, if I were a studio, I think the advantage of going with a form factor that uses insane amounts of storage has a huge benefit when it comes to unlawful distribution. Even if broadband grows substantially in the next few years, downloading a 150G movie is not going to be practical. My position is to let the hi-def market shake itself out before commiting to another format.