I'm so disappointed in DVD quality ... (1 Viewer)

[Cees Alons]

If pixelization is on the DVD everyone sees it. You cannot reconstruct the original pixels back from bigger pixel-blocks that are some sort of sum of the original pixels.

And there's no doubt that pixelization can originate in the DVD player: that's where it often originates from. It mostly happens as a result of reading errors (e.g. on a dirty spot) before the mpeg decoding stage.
If it's on the DVD (not impossible), they should have corrected it IMO.

Are we all talking about the same phenomenon?


You generally see larger square or rectangular blocks on the image if this occurs (it can be done on purpose: the well known effect to make someone's face, e.g. of a suspect or secret agent, unrecognizable on the screen).


BTW: We (my wife and I) watched Master & Commander yesterday evening on our 100" screen (I'm still humming the violin/cello theme all day ), and we didn't see any pixelization.


Cees

 

[Cees Alons]

If pixelization is on the DVD everyone sees it. You cannot reconstruct the original pixels back from bigger pixel-blocks that are some sort of sum of the original pixels.

And there's no doubt that pixelization can originate in the DVD player: that's where it often originates from. It mostly happens as a result of reading errors (e.g. on a dirty spot) before the mpeg decoding stage.
If it's on the DVD (not impossible), they should have corrected it IMO.

Are we all talking about the same phenomenon?


You generally see larger square or rectangular blocks on the image if this occurs (it can be done on purpose: the well known effect to make someone's face, e.g. of a suspect or secret agent, unrecognizable on the screen).


BTW: We (my wife and I) watched Master & Commander yesterday evening on our 100" screen (I'm still humming the violin/cello theme all day ), and we didn't see any pixelization.


Cees

 

[Jonathan Dagmar]

There are no problems with Master and Commander whatseover. What you are seeing are not DVD artifacts, but part of the oroginal theatrical presentation. Many scenes with fog were presented in a grainy "old world" look, for artistic effect.

This topic has come up before.

 

[Jonathan Dagmar]

There are no problems with Master and Commander whatseover. What you are seeing are not DVD artifacts, but part of the oroginal theatrical presentation. Many scenes with fog were presented in a grainy "old world" look, for artistic effect.

This topic has come up before.

 

[Chazz_S]

I have to chime in here and say that equipment can definitely reveal pixelation.


I mostly watch DVD's on my PC upstairs on my LCD screen. I recently brought down The Good The Bad The Ugly to watch on my TV/Sony DVD player. I couldn't believe how bad it looked for one thing. But indeed, whereever there was 'busy' action on screen, there would be some extreme pixelation. This never manifested itself once during PC viewings. Needless to say this puts a damper on DVD viewing quick. I'm not sure where the 'problem' is with my TV set up.

I remember an extreme case of this with "Beauty and the Beast" too. Looks decent on my PC, artifacts and pixelation everywhere on my TV.

 

[Chazz_S]

I have to chime in here and say that equipment can definitely reveal pixelation.


I mostly watch DVD's on my PC upstairs on my LCD screen. I recently brought down The Good The Bad The Ugly to watch on my TV/Sony DVD player. I couldn't believe how bad it looked for one thing. But indeed, whereever there was 'busy' action on screen, there would be some extreme pixelation. This never manifested itself once during PC viewings. Needless to say this puts a damper on DVD viewing quick. I'm not sure where the 'problem' is with my TV set up.

I remember an extreme case of this with "Beauty and the Beast" too. Looks decent on my PC, artifacts and pixelation everywhere on my TV.

 

[Sean Patrick]

since switching to progressive scan a couple of years ago, visible artifacts on my setup have gone way down.

now i'm projecting on a 106" screen, and see far less artifacting than i did on a 27" 4:3 TV, 480i.

in fact, it's so rare for me to see artifacting that when i DO see it, it's jarring. I was watching the Big Lebowski today and some outdoor scenes with blue sky had some light artifacting. i was about to tweak my levels until i realized i was looking at an older disc with a so-so transfer and that i should just relax and watch the movie.

however, edge enhancement is now an issue with certain discs. it can really destroy a transfer if you have a large display.

 

[Sean Patrick]

since switching to progressive scan a couple of years ago, visible artifacts on my setup have gone way down.

now i'm projecting on a 106" screen, and see far less artifacting than i did on a 27" 4:3 TV, 480i.

in fact, it's so rare for me to see artifacting that when i DO see it, it's jarring. I was watching the Big Lebowski today and some outdoor scenes with blue sky had some light artifacting. i was about to tweak my levels until i realized i was looking at an older disc with a so-so transfer and that i should just relax and watch the movie.

however, edge enhancement is now an issue with certain discs. it can really destroy a transfer if you have a large display.

 

[ChristianLiemke]

I had both RC1 and german RC2 2-DVD-sets of "Master and Commander" and BOTH have signs of pixelization in the fog scenes. It's visible on my standalone player and on my DVD-ROM, using Power-DVD 4.0.

 

[ChristianLiemke]

I had both RC1 and german RC2 2-DVD-sets of "Master and Commander" and BOTH have signs of pixelization in the fog scenes. It's visible on my standalone player and on my DVD-ROM, using Power-DVD 4.0.

 

[Todd McF]

The fog scene artifacts are pretty minor really - easy to miss especially in such a high drama scene.

I know everyone wants to claim they have perfect equipment and "it must be your stuff". That may be true in many cases, but I just don't see it here. If anyone out there with a 9" CRT projector at 120" says there is no pixelation, then I might question my DLP equipment.

I still think M&C is reference quality though.

 

[Todd McF]

The fog scene artifacts are pretty minor really - easy to miss especially in such a high drama scene.

I know everyone wants to claim they have perfect equipment and "it must be your stuff". That may be true in many cases, but I just don't see it here. If anyone out there with a 9" CRT projector at 120" says there is no pixelation, then I might question my DLP equipment.

I still think M&C is reference quality though.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Todd,

I'm not sure I understand your logic here.

While image size does play a roll in being able to notice artifacts, but if the image size is close or equal, then it would make no difference if you were watching it on a 9" CRT calibrated by Joe Kane himself or an out of the box X1. If there is a problem with the disc, then both will display disc generated artifacts. In fact if anything, some very high-end equipment can make slight improvements of disc artifacts, while low-end equipment might make them more noticeable.

If some see artifacts and others do not yet are looking at similar size images, then that is a very strong indication that it is not an issue with the disc, but rather the equipment.

If it will put your mind at rest, I have access to a private HT here in Austin which features stacked G90s, Faroudja NRS, Meridian 800, on a 110" screen. In equipment alone, this theater features over half a million dollars worth of premium A/V components.

That's not how I would spend that kind of money, but admittedly the system is spectacular.

The next time I pay a visit I'll pop in M&C, but considering that with my own system which is quite modest by comparison does not display these artifacts as reported by a few on this thread, I can confidently say that his system certainly isn't going to either.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Todd,

I'm not sure I understand your logic here.

While image size does play a roll in being able to notice artifacts, but if the image size is close or equal, then it would make no difference if you were watching it on a 9" CRT calibrated by Joe Kane himself or an out of the box X1. If there is a problem with the disc, then both will display disc generated artifacts. In fact if anything, some very high-end equipment can make slight improvements of disc artifacts, while low-end equipment might make them more noticeable.

If some see artifacts and others do not yet are looking at similar size images, then that is a very strong indication that it is not an issue with the disc, but rather the equipment.

If it will put your mind at rest, I have access to a private HT here in Austin which features stacked G90s, Faroudja NRS, Meridian 800, on a 110" screen. In equipment alone, this theater features over half a million dollars worth of premium A/V components.

That's not how I would spend that kind of money, but admittedly the system is spectacular.

The next time I pay a visit I'll pop in M&C, but considering that with my own system which is quite modest by comparison does not display these artifacts as reported by a few on this thread, I can confidently say that his system certainly isn't going to either.

 

[David Ruiz]

Not necessarily.

Even if two people were watching the same disc in the same room, on a 125" FP screen, and one person has better eyesight than the other person, the one with better eyesight will obviously see something wrong with the image quality, while the other person would not.

Just because one has a large display does not automatically mean that said person is going to see something that is wrong with the disc.

This goes back to what I was talking about in my earlier posts about excessive edge-enhancement. MOST people just don't see it at all. Are they blind, or do they not know what to look for? I can see it very clearly on titles like "Field Of Dreams (Collector's Edition)" even when viewing it on my 19" computer monitor/DVD-Rom drive, while I'm sure that people wouldn't see it, even if they had a 120" FP system.

In the way that EE may not be visible to most people, is probably the same way that most people would not notice pixilization on the M&C disc that Colton was talking about. It might be because people's eyesight are just not good enough, OR they simply are not conditioned to see these type of artifacts, or just don't know what to look for.

Of course, I still have not seen M&C, so I can't say with certainty that there is or isn't any compression artifacts, but I believe Colton when he says that it's there.

 

[David Ruiz]

Not necessarily.

Even if two people were watching the same disc in the same room, on a 125" FP screen, and one person has better eyesight than the other person, the one with better eyesight will obviously see something wrong with the image quality, while the other person would not.

Just because one has a large display does not automatically mean that said person is going to see something that is wrong with the disc.

This goes back to what I was talking about in my earlier posts about excessive edge-enhancement. MOST people just don't see it at all. Are they blind, or do they not know what to look for? I can see it very clearly on titles like "Field Of Dreams (Collector's Edition)" even when viewing it on my 19" computer monitor/DVD-Rom drive, while I'm sure that people wouldn't see it, even if they had a 120" FP system.

In the way that EE may not be visible to most people, is probably the same way that most people would not notice pixilization on the M&C disc that Colton was talking about. It might be because people's eyesight are just not good enough, OR they simply are not conditioned to see these type of artifacts, or just don't know what to look for.

Of course, I still have not seen M&C, so I can't say with certainty that there is or isn't any compression artifacts, but I believe Colton when he says that it's there.

 

[Todd McF]

Nils,

My only point is that given what I've seen using my equipment with what I consider reference DVDs (including M&C itself), I have a hard time believing my system is at fault in this one particular scene.

I'd like to hear from someone with a similar or better setup - meaning a good DLP or LCD or (better yet) CRT on a 120" or bigger. 100" is pretty small and RPTV is simply way too small for comparison (at least as far as exposing artifacts this minor).

 

[Todd McF]

Nils,

My only point is that given what I've seen using my equipment with what I consider reference DVDs (including M&C itself), I have a hard time believing my system is at fault in this one particular scene.

I'd like to hear from someone with a similar or better setup - meaning a good DLP or LCD or (better yet) CRT on a 120" or bigger. 100" is pretty small and RPTV is simply way too small for comparison (at least as far as exposing artifacts this minor).

 

[Michael Reuben]

I'm sure Colton is seeing something. Whether it's a compression artifact remains to be demonstrated. I've read too many complaints about DVD "defects" that turn out to be features of the original photography to be anything but skeptical. (And, BTW, I never noticed any such defects on my M&C disc on a 65" calibrated monitor.)

It might help if Colton (or anyone else who sees a compression artifact on this title) provided a time mark and an area of the screen to examine.

M.

 

[Michael Reuben]

I'm sure Colton is seeing something. Whether it's a compression artifact remains to be demonstrated. I've read too many complaints about DVD "defects" that turn out to be features of the original photography to be anything but skeptical. (And, BTW, I never noticed any such defects on my M&C disc on a 65" calibrated monitor.)

It might help if Colton (or anyone else who sees a compression artifact on this title) provided a time mark and an area of the screen to examine.

M.