I'm a believer! Lp's really do sound better! (1 Viewer)

[Robert AG]

>>>Yes, I've done that but I'm not talking about raising the recording level during mastering. I'm talking about mastering down to CD (16 bit - maybe 20 for HDCD) from hi res where you will be throwing away bits in any case so you get some leeway with recording levels.

And for a live performance, even a competent recording engineer could get caught out by a particularly lively passage (and it's better not to fiddle with levels during a recording, isn't it?).

 

[Robert AG]

>>>Robert AG: I have read several times that part of the reason for the vinyl format's "airiness" is that cartridge/stylus/groove interactions cause out-of-phase conditions, thus generating this pleasing effect. What do you think?

 

[Steve_AS]

Hmm.. what if the SS amps were housed in Bakelite?
I see a market here!

 

[Craig_Kg]

It is just plain stupid and lazy to just set the levels at a too-low level and walk away, and throw away forever a good amount of the resolution of the digital format, not matter how many bits the digital rsolution is.

But if you are averaging the last 8 bits from a 24bit recording + adding dither, it is throwing away resolution no matter how you look at it. I'm not arguing that the effect is audible.

 

[Robert AG]

Perhaps I should have said that _truncating_ the lower bits and _not_ averaging them into the LSB of the new word is "throwing away" data. If the lower bits are averaged into the new LSB, of course the final resolution is less, but it is not just ignoring the original lower bits.

I think one thing you ignore in live concerts is that there are two and possibly three seperate mixes going on. One of these (the "house" mix) feeds the speakers you hear at the concert. Another is the "monitor" mix which is fed to the musician's monitors so that they can hear each other. When a concert is recorded, there is another, seperate mix done usually outside the venue in a recording truck, using seperate equipment. All these mixes are done by different people who have different things they have to watch out for. The recording mixer is responsible for getting a clean signal to storage (tape, hard disc...)and his arsenal of equipment is different than that of the house or monitor mixing engineers. Limiters and compressors are part of his equipment which is used to avoid signal overload.

If you don't believe me on this stuff, I would suggest you pick up some texts on recording technique - there are several good books available.

 

[Mattias_ka]

My own personal preference is to have the music delivery format as neutral as possible, so that whatever the artist wants you to hear arrives at your ear the way he/she intended, not what the format allows. Airiness and warmth--if desired--can be added easily using several different methods in the studio during the recording's production phase.

Well, artist like Neil Young, Bob Dylan, etc prefer their music on vinyl over the CD version.

 

[RobertR]

artist like Neil Young, Bob Dylan, etc prefer their music on vinyl over the CD version.

The key word is "prefer". They may also prefer eggs over easy, or pistachio ice cream. So what?

 

[Rachael B]

Reading this thread could take all the fun out of actually listening to records...

 

[Frank_S]

FWIW, I saw Stevie Nicks on Leno last year and Jay actually asked her what format she preferred, CD or Vinyl. She said emphatically Vinyl.

 

[Rachael B]

Mattias, Neil's first album is wonderful on vinyl and dud-ful on CD. No wonder he's lukewarm, errr, lukecold on the format.... Mary Chris-mess!

 

[Craig_Kg]

The recording mixer is responsible for getting a clean signal to storage (tape, hard disc...)and his arsenal of equipment is different than that of the house or monitor mixing engineers. Limiters and compressors are part of his equipment which is used to avoid signal overload.

But shouldn't limiting and compressing the signal be avoided, if possible, to get the "purest" recording?

 

[Robert AG]

Limiting and compression are a fact of life. Vocals are routinely compressed in almost all recordings of popular music so the dynamic range of the voice sits confortably with the other instruments. Bass guitar is also compressed routinely to even out the levels of the strings / registers of the instrument. Peak limiting and compression are valuable tools for the recording engineer, and properly used, will not degrade the sound quality.

Please, I can't provide an education in recording technique! Do some reading on the subject. As I mentioned before, there are numerous books and schools where you can learn all you want about this subject.

 

[FeisalK]

i know this thread is old, but....
someone finally did it! ;D
imagine that: analog performance -> digital recording -> analog transport -> digital playback...

 

[Shane Harg]

Please don't take this as being combative or argumentative. It's only meant as an FYI, but you can easily connect ANY turntable to just about any computer via the soundcard. You don't need to be a computer geek and you don't need a special turntable to do it.
Even with this turntable (or any turntalbe for that matter) and turning your analog records into digital files, the issue of analog vs. digital still exists. With the exception of SACD and DVD-A, which come as close as you can get to analog via digital, CDs and MP3s just don't have a high enough sampling rate to reproduce the analog soundwave accurately. It's the same reason why digital photography isn't as good as film-based 35mm photography (analog), yet. If you blow up a digital photograph large enough the picture becomes distorted and shows digital artifacts. That's what the digital soundwave looks like when coming through your stereo via a CD player. It's even worse with MP3. It's just a matter of convenience with many people and others simply can't hear a difference.
If you really want the best of both worlds, it lies in SACD and DVD-A. For vinyl spinners, like me, the holy grail of analog is closer to this: http://www.laserturntable.com/ . Only drawback? $15,000!
As for converting your vinyl into CDs and/or digital files? Until it becomes possible to encode them into something like DSD, you'll never be able enjoy anything close to a real analog experience with the converted files.

 

[Philip Hamm]

I disagree with almost everything in Shane's post.

 

[Shane Harg]

I disagree with almost everything in Shane's post.

Yeah...um, thanks for sharing that and for all the time and thought that went into your post.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Gentlemen, please ...

 

[Jesse Skeen]

There's GOTTA be a way to make that laser turntable cheaper- I'd buy one for $500 or less.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

In a pristine environment with a high quality vinyl pressing using an excellent turntable and cartridge, I am certain vinyl is better than CD. As a practical matter, CD is so much better for use in the real world that LP is totally irrelevant except to a tiny niche market. For the few that want to mess with LP, they find it worthwhile. I did what I considered a critical comparison and decided CD made more sense for me a long time ago and abandoned LP. DVD-A and SACD exceed LP in my opinion and I love both formats and I am disappointed both seem to have such a bleak future.

Chris

 

[Philip Hamm]

Quote:

I'm not convinced that it's better, you can't get rid of that horrible S/N ratio even with the best equipment there is. However, it certainly sounds fantastic even with a modest setup and a good pressing.