Blu-ray Review HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Seventh Seal (1 Viewer)

[johnSM]

Sorry for ruffling any feathers here Michael, but I can only 'judge' by the particular threads I've actually read on here... Perhaps it's because the films I am most interested in appear to be the one's likely to garner the most attention from all concerned so are liable to be given the 'critical eye' more so than other releases...

 

At any rate I did not mean to cause any offence here, and I apologise if I did.

 

- John

 

[Michael Reuben]

I don't mean to single you out, John, which is why I quoted several people (and I just added another quotation). If people want to disagree with 24fpssean, then by all means they should do so (within the rules, of course). But to generalize that disagreement into a dismissal of all or most of the forum's membership is uncalled-for.

 

Gladiator's title card WAS changed for dvd. I remember the original. The letters slowly turned into a stone font, much like the lettering on the poster art.

 

[JohnMor]

I understand your point Michael, but my statement was not related only to this thread, but to myriad others over the years. The kind of nitpicking negativity that maintains all positive aspects of a release are negated or erased if there are flaws of any kind. NOTHING touched by human hands will ever be perfect, but to read some of the threads here, you'd believe many posters believe it can and should. And I said many, not most. I agree with you about the majority of HTF'ers.

 

[Michael Reuben]

 

Originally Posted by johnSM

I understand your point Michael, but my statement was not related only to this thread, but to myriad others over the years. The kind of nitpicking negativity that maintains all positive aspects of a release are negated or erased if there are flaws of any kind. NOTHING touched by human hands will ever be perfect, but to read some of the threads here, you'd believe many posters believe it can and should. And I said many, not most. I agree with you about the majority of HTF'ers.

I accept the correction, but "many" still sounds like a lot. In this thread, it was precisely one -- followed by "many" who disagreed.

 

By your own admission, your reading is confined to specific threads. Maybe if you read a little more broadly, your perception would be different. Just sticking with the review theme (since this is a review thread), I've read hundreds of disc reviews here (and have written more than a few) in which both the positive and the negative aspects of a release are noted and appropriately balanced. I could easily supply examples.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I need some help.

I was watching my copy of the Criterion Blu of The Seventh Seal tonight.

At 1:23:20 of the 97 minute film, my disc froze. Locked solid. There was no fast-forwarding or reversing or chapter skipping once it locked up. I tried to clean the disc several times. It would lock at exactly the same spot each time. The only option I had was to eject the disc.

My player is an Oppo-203. It has the latest firmware.

I am fairly confident I have watched this disc before. But I wouldn't be surprised that it was on a different player. I guess I'll look into unearthing my last player to see if I can get through the last 14 minutes.

Anyone got any other ideas?

 

[titch]

I need some help.

I was watching my copy of the Criterion Blu of The Seventh Seal tonight.

At 1:23:20 of the 97 minute film, my disc froze. Locked solid. There was no fast-forwarding or reversing or chapter skipping once it locked up. I tried to clean the disc several times. It would lock at exactly the same spot each time. The only option I had was to eject the disc.

My player is an Oppo-203. It has the latest firmware.

I am fairly confident I have watched this disc before. But I wouldn't be surprised that it was on a different player. I guess I'll look into unearthing my last player to see if I can get through the last 14 minutes.

Anyone got any other ideas?

Was this the new transfer from the Criterion box set or the standalone disc from 2009? I watched the new 4K transfer from the box set earlier this week on an Oppo-203, without a hitch.

 

[David Norman]

I'd certainly try a second player, but I think the original release was one of those that had replication issues.
Criterion almost certainly would replace the disc.
I'd say 100% chance if it's from the Big Box.

For anyway with a PC BD player I strongly suggest getting a copy of VSO Inspector which has been an excllent program to check disc
errors/bad discs, layer separation, etc

 

[Brent Reid]

I need some help.

I was watching my copy of the Criterion Blu of The Seventh Seal tonight.

At 1:23:20 of the 97 minute film, my disc froze. Locked solid. There was no fast-forwarding or reversing or chapter skipping once it locked up. I tried to clean the disc several times. It would lock at exactly the same spot each time. The only option I had was to eject the disc.

My player is an Oppo-203. It has the latest firmware.

I am fairly confident I have watched this disc before. But I wouldn't be surprised that it was on a different player. I guess I'll look into unearthing my last player to see if I can get through the last 14 minutes.

Anyone got any other ideas?

This is a commonly reported problem. There is no fix and as the fault didn't develop until years later, no corrected discs were issued. Criterion will send free replacements on request ([email protected]) but all stocks of the original disc are gone and they only have copies of their restored reissue – which actually has an inferior transfer...

 

[Mike Frezon]

Thanks t all you fellas!

Was this the new transfer from the Criterion box set or the standalone disc from 2009?

2009 standalone.

For anyway with a PC BD player I strongly suggest getting a copy of VSO Inspector which has been an excellent program to check disc errors/bad discs, layer separation, etc

I don't have a PC BD player...

This is a commonly reported problem.

Thanks, Brent. I googled the topic and came up with nothing. Go figure. Common as in a problem for the 203?

I'll reach out to Mulvaney's e-mail and see what happens. I've never done that before. But I hear they are accommodating.

I'm surprised to hear that their later disc is lesser than the 2009 disc. Is there a link where I can read more about that?

 

[David Norman]

Thanks, Brent. I googled the topic and came up with nothing. Go figure. Common as in a problem for the 203?

I'll reach out to Mulvaney's e-mail and see what happens. I've never done that before. But I hear they are accommodating.

I'm surprised to hear that their later disc is lesser than the 2009 disc. Is there a link where I can read more about that?

Seems like I remember the lack of PC BD player from a prior disc issue, but could have been someone else.

Common as in there was a problem traced back to one of the replication plants that were making discs for a year or more that were prone to breaking down. Many of the discs became discolored -- bronzing and would eventually fail to play. It seemed to most common strike around the layer change. I had 2 discs (Walkabout and Summer Hours) that Criterion exchanged for newer pressings and I think I have one more that is in need. This didn't only affect Criterion discs, but many of the discs that came out of one plant in particular

There were a dozen titles commonly hit (not even all of them) and another 20+ that seemed to occasionally have issues.
I know there is a huge thread at bluray.com and I thought there was a thread here somewhere

The official note from Criterion.
https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/3317-exchanging-defective-discs

I just ran a full scan on my 2009 Seventh Seal and luckily everything still looks good. I was able to play the disc form 1:20 to the end without an issue so still fingers crossed. I'm also not sure I agree with the opinion that the Newer 4K originated SS from the Boxset is inferior. Different, but overall I think it's a substantial improvement -- as always there are some different opinions

 

[titch]

Thanks t all you fellas!



2009 standalone.



I don't have a PC BD player...



Thanks, Brent. I googled the topic and came up with nothing. Go figure. Common as in a problem for the 203?

I'll reach out to Mulvaney's e-mail and see what happens. I've never done that before. But I hear they are accommodating.

I'm surprised to hear that their later disc is lesser than the 2009 disc. Is there a link where I can read more about that?

The guy on blu-ray.com wrote about "denoising" on the remastered 4K version. I completely disagree with what he has written. Having started with the Criterion laserdisc, I have had both the UK Tartan blu-ray (one of the first blu-rays I purchased) and I still have the Criterion 2009 disc. I think the remastered 4K picture from the 2017 restoration is stunning. Projected onto my 150 inch screen, it looked exactly as magnificent as when I saw this projected from a DCP at the Bergman retrospective in Oslo in 2018. The picture is better than it has ever been. I consider myself to be sensitive to DNR. Two weeks ago, I saw the 4K UHD Terminator 2 - it is awful.

This year, I've seen 4K remasters of Tokyo Story and Les Diaboliques projected from a DCP. They were superior than the Criterion blu-rays I have, but their photography and picture quality aren't up to the level of the recent Seventh Seal restoration. I wouldn't be worried about receiving the new disc as a replacement.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Thanks, Kevin. That sounds more than hopeful. I thought the 2009 disc was looking pretty good.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Even though I didn't get a response (yet) to an email I sent Jon Mulvaney, I went ahead and sent the defective disc directly to him in NYC (based on info supplied at the link provided by David Norman).

Does anyone here have any prior experience with this kind of transaction with Criterion? Is there a quick turn-around? Should I fear that I'll get no replacement?

Thx.

 

[David Norman]

Even though I didn't get a response (yet) to an email I sent Jon Mulvaney, I went ahead and sent the defective disc directly to him in NYC (based on info supplied at the link provided by David Norman).

Does anyone here have any prior experience with this kind of transaction with Criterion? Is there a quick turn-around? Should I fear that I'll get no replacement?

Thx.

I seem to remember about 2 weeks though I didn't do mine until well after the program started. I'd doubt you wouldn't get some disc back -- either yours or a replacement. Honestly I'd be a little surprised if you don't get some version of the replacement BD.

 

[lark144]

Even though I didn't get a response (yet) to an email I sent Jon Mulvaney, I went ahead and sent the defective disc directly to him in NYC (based on info supplied at the link provided by David Norman).

Does anyone here have any prior experience with this kind of transaction with Criterion? Is there a quick turn-around? Should I fear that I'll get no replacement?

Thx.

Hi, Mike. Sorry to hear you're having trouble. I've had a few Criterion discs freeze up on me, and I've always found them helpful and quick to respond. In general, it's taken less than a week to get a replacement in the mail. I've also gotten replacements for discs that were out of print, though that took a bit longer.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Hi, Mike. Sorry to hear you're having trouble.

Thanks, Mark.

I just want to see the last 14 minutes of the movie!

It's not like I haven't watched it several times before. But this turned into a real case of interruptus!

 

[lark144]

Thanks, Mark.

I just want to see the last 14 minutes of the movie!

It's not like I haven't watched it several times before. But this turned into a real case of interruptus!

Ah! Then it's probably the second layer being defective.

That makes sense, as it's happened to me in a number of Criterion discs: specifically, THE LADY VANISHES, THE RED CIRCLE, YOUNG MR. LINCOLN & HOWARD'S END. All of those were replaced by them.

Generally, the folks at Criterion answer right away, except today is not a normal day. I just received this email from them, which I will paste below:

NEWSLETTER - MARCH 16, 2020

Dear members of the Criterion community,

It’s the middle of the month, and under normal circumstances we would have announced our June DVD and Blu-ray releases today. As we all know these are not normal circumstances.

In order to be conscientious citizens and to reduce/delay the spread of COVID-19, the Criterion team spent much of last week transitioning to a remote working environment. It is our sincere hope that we will be able to continue our work this way, serving our mission while attending to the health, safety, and economic security of 100% of our staff.

We’ve been heartened by all the people who have reached out to us by email or shouted out on social networks to ask how we are doing, and the answer is, so far, so good. Our employees are up and running with the new protocols, and we’ll do everything we can to adapt as the situation evolves. We expect to move forward with the announcement of June titles in the next day or two.

We’re also aiming to announce the Criterion Channel’s April lineup next week. April 8 will be the Channel’s first birthday, and in celebration we’ve pulled out all the stops with a ton of great programming. Under the circumstances, we’re glad we did!

Finally, many of you have asked if there is anything you can do, and there is. If you haven’t tried out the Criterion Channel yet, please check it out, and if you like what you see, please sign up for a 14-day free trial. Subscribing and giving gift subscriptions to the Channel are probably the most important things you can do to help ensure that we can keep serving our audiences and our filmmakers, supporting our staff, and making sure that we can all stay connected with the movies we love.

Thanks, as always, for your support. We’ll keep working hard to earn it.

All the best,
Peter Becker and Jonathan Turell

 

[Mike Frezon]

Even though I didn't get a response (yet) to an email I sent Jon Mulvaney, I went ahead and sent the defective disc directly to him in NYC (based on info supplied at the link provided by David Norman).

Well, I got an e-mail reply from Jon Mulvaney a day or so ago.

Besides the info listed at the link above by David Norman about the various discs Criterion has had trouble with, it also included this pertinent, topical note:

Please note that we are taking precautions to help delay the spread of COVID-19 Virus and and our staff are now working remotely. This means that if a disc is sent in, a replacement may not be processed for at least the next month or possibly longer. If you would prefer to wait and send in your discs at a later date, we will still honor the exchange.

So I guess I'll be waiting a bit longer than usual to see the end of the film!

For anyone who wants to see the rest of the note about the various discs that MAY be problematic:

We have confirmed that certain Blu-ray discs pressed at a replication facility that we used for a period in 2010 have become defective, showing a noticeable bronze discoloration on the underside and developing playback problems.

We have confirmed the problem on ten titles, but not on all copies of these titles. All of these titles have since been re-pressed at a different pressing plant, and the vast majority of discs in circulation should not be affected.

The confirmed potentially affected Blu-ray titles are:
SUMMER HOURS
WALKABOUT
PARIS, TEXAS
M
THE SEVENTH SEAL
PIERROT LE FOU
HOWARDS END
MONSOON WEDDING
MONTEREY POP
RIDE WITH THE DEVIL

In addition to the confirmed list, please review any copies of the following you may have in your collection:
Gomorrah
Wings of Desire
Vivre Sa Vie
8 1/2
A Christmas Tale
Days of Heaven
In the Realm of the Senses
Kagemusha
Lola Montes
Stagecoach
Paths of Glory

Bigger Than Life
Revanche



These titles seem to have less discs that were affected. Not all runs of these discs were affected with the disc rot. The best way to tell if your disc from the list is defective is by looking on the underside of the disc (the shiny side) and if you see the letters 'BVDL' your disc will be fine. If you don't see those letters you should send in your disc.


If you have found that your Blu-ray copy of one of these titles does not play, please send your disc in to the following address for a replacement:

The Criterion Collection
Attn: Jon Mulvaney
215 Park Avenue South
5th floor
New York, NY 10003

Please include only your discs -- no packaging from the titles -- along with the address to which you'd like us to mail your replacement.

We will not be replacing or exchanging packaging. There is no need to email us in addition.

If you decide not to send in a disc that is playing fine and it starts to show signs of the defect at a later date, we will be happy to exchange your disc at that time. If we learn that other titles are similarly defective, we will add them to the list and continue to replace them as well (excluding discs that are out of print that aren't listed above).

All the best,

Jon Mulvaney

 

[Mike Frezon]

So...a couple weeks ago I reached back out to Jon Mulvaney to see if the gang at Criterion had returned to their offices yet (as a followup to my sending them my defective disc of The Seventh Seal back in March).

He wrote me July 30th that they are still working remotely. But, the prince that he is, he said he would have a replacement copy sent from their warehouse.

The disc arrived a couple days ago.

Terrific company.