HBO True Detective (1 Viewer)

[Hanson]

Where's Josh EH so we can have a Josh/Josh/Hanson/Hanson discussion?

 

[Sam Posten]

Add a few Sam's to that too Hanson. =)Re: disagreeing with the author, I don't think it so strange. There's unreliable narrators and unreliable authors/directors/artists of all flavors. They have their secrets, their foibles, their biases. The truth is out there. =) The possibilities are legion, perhaps he's being disingenuous, perhaps he is hiding details that come out in season two, perhaps he's got an agenda, perhaps he's not as smart as I/we seem to have given him credit for up to now.Or perhaps he is genuine and believes that and it conflicts with my/our/some of our worldviews and biases. I admit I found the idea of a character who rejected the vastly theist worldview intriguing and found the idea of him flip flopping on that due to a near death experience disappointing, and find it hard to believe that it was the plan all along. That's on me for those expectations and being gullible enough to think that could survive and rise up despite the typical BS that's on TV. I thought TD was -special-. Nope.I don't think so tho. Something isn't adding up and i believe it to be one of the former and not the latter. That's what makes discussing this all so interesting, it's a very polarizing ending. I don't think any of you are wrong for enjoying it, but the more I think of it and read others with a similar bent to my own, it remains a terrible 15 minutes of TV.

 

[TravisR]

I admit I found the idea of a character who rejected the vastly theist worldview intriguing and found the idea of him flip flopping on that due to a near death experience disappointing, and find it hard to believe that it was the plan all along.

This wasn't a multi-year show where plans can change, you can tell by watching the show that all the scripts were written either before they started shooting or very early into the shooting so what you saw was the plan. If Rust's growth was just them pussying out on the topic of atheism at the last second, they would have dialed it way back in all the other episodes too.

 

[ScottH]

I admit I found the idea of a character who rejected the vastly theist worldview intriguing and found the idea of him flip flopping on that due to a near death experience disappointing

This is where you lose me, Sam. You find the idea of him flip-flopping to a theist ideal disappointing, but yet the writer himself explicitly stated that wasn't the case.

And please don't take offense to my comments...just having healthy discussion...but I can't help but think there's something else going on.

 

[Robert Crawford]

This is where you lose me, Sam. You find the idea of him flip-flopping to a theist ideal disappointing, but yet the writer himself explicitly stated that wasn't the case.

And please don't take offense to my comments...just having healthy discussion...but I can't help but think there's something else going on.

Which is exactly why we have these type of disagreements, besides the simple fact that we are seeing and hearing the same program/movie. It's like any other piece of artwork, our personal baggage greatly influences how we interpret or appreciate it which is why we have differences of opinion in regard to what we just observed as art. Even our mood or state of being could swing our opinion versus what a consensus of folks think of it. Subjectivity is unstable to say the least.

 

[Sam Posten]

Once again I tried to compress too much into that paragraph, the 'plan all along' line came out wrong. Will take another crack at that.Also Crawdddy I'm saying that I recognize my biases and baggage and that contributes to my disappointment but the issue is far deeper than than and rests on NickP and not in my background.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Once again I tried to compress too much into that paragraph, the 'plan all along' line came out wrong. Will take another crack at that.Also Crawdddy I'm saying that I recognize my biases and baggage and that contributes to my disappointment but the issue is far deeper than than and rests on NickP and not in my background.

I don't know where it rests, I'm just saying we're all different individuals. Thus, our acceptance or interpretation of art is different too.

 

[Sam Posten]

Word on that. Let me try and rephrase that comment tho, because I think it's important to the conversation and I'm genuinely enjoying the different viewpoints. We've treaded close to the edge of P&R but I think I can continue presenting it in a way that avoids crossing that line. Please let me know if you disagree and I'll move on tho.

I admit I found the idea of a character who rejected the vastly theist worldview intriguing and found the idea of him flip flopping on that due to a near death experience disappointing, and find it hard to believe that it was the plan all along.

I admit I found the idea of a character who rejected the vastly theist worldview intriguing and found the idea of him flip flopping on that due to a near death experience disappointing. What I failed to see is that Pizzolato set this up not so much as a -belief- for Rust but as a side effect, -damage-. I find it hard to accept that it was NickP's plan all along for him to present this character as having these genuine, deep rooted convictions and then pull them out from under him by a near death experience. That's why I referenced the 'unreliable narrator' earlier. Rust's monologues are very specific and full of conviction, they don't appear to be the ramblings of someone hurt or damaged but as someone who believes what he is saying. THAT is what gets undone in those last 15 minutes, it's saying "no, he didn't really believe all of that, he just latched onto that despair at an uncaring, dangerous universe because of the incident with his daughter damaging his psyche'.I further find it hard to believe that he (NickP) would be surprised to find that people who -rationally- believe many of the things Rust espouses would be disappointed in that flip flop and would feel that it wasn't true to the character as presented for 7 and 3/4 episodes. Regardless of my own personal beliefs I think that the 'redemption' / 'getting religion' angle was handled badly and I didn't buy that the NDE was sufficient to shake Rust out of either the horror he was experiencing or to change his beliefs -unless- you thought that he wasn't genuine in those beliefs for over 30 years.

 

[KevinGress]

Regardless of my own personal beliefs I think that the 'redemption' / 'getting religion' angle was handled badly and I didn't buy that the NDE was sufficient to shake Rust out of either the horror he was experiencing or to change his beliefs -unless- you thought that he wasn't genuine in those beliefs for over 30 years.

I'm going to try to rephrase to see if I understand what you're saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

You feel that Rust's 'conversion' is a betrayal to the character and that NP is incorrect that that's what actually happened. I agree with you on the second - Rust did go through a conversion, however slight, and I disagree with NP's assertions that he did not.

On the first part, however, if that's your belief, I have to disagree. A near-death experience is definitely a proper catalyst for altering one's long-held beliefs. Rust was stabbed brutally and he felt his life slipping away - and he let go. He expected blackness; nothingness. That he felt his daughter, and his dad, challenged that belief. Add to that that once he woke up he probably had weeks to think and mull over his experience, and the minute change he had in his faith is totally understandable and not a betrayal to the character.

 

[Sam Posten]

Understood, and I wish to take nothing away from you if you feel that way, no matter how much I disagree with it. My beef is with the writer and the actual execution of that scene.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Understood, and I wish to take nothing away from you if you feel that way, no matter how much I disagree with it. My beef is with the writer and the actual execution of that scene.

Let's remember that Rust was probably in the hospital for months recovering from his injuries and surgery. So what's the problem with execution if he had months to think about what happened to him and plenty of time to think about life in general. It's not like he suddenly converted his thinking the vary next day or so. Even as mature adults, we change in how we think about everything, particularly, after a near death experience with enough time for reflection. Rust is the kind of person, who's mind never stops going 90 mph. I bet a whole bunch of crap was going through his mind during this time.

 

[Nathan_F]

I'm just waiting for Woody and Matt's new sitcom: SMI (Scented Meat Investigations)

 

[TravisR]

^ I don't know why but the sentient meat/scented meat confusion really made me laugh.

 

[Sam Posten]

funny, but not their best:http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2014/03/10/quelle-horreur

 

[Jesters Movie Machine]

Great great show! They filmed ALOT in my home town.

 

[Greg.K]

http://timeisaflatcircus.tumblr.com

 

[schan1269]

http://timeisaflatcircus.tumblr.com

So true...good times sometimes...

 

[Citizen87645]

I'll forever be in this show's debt due to Alexandra Daddario's presence on this show.

I guess we finally know what kind of trouble Adam Braverman passed up / avoided.

 

[Citizen87645]

I was somewhat disappointed with the finale, mainly because I was hoping for something a little more revelatory about the Yellow King and the cult.

I can kind of see the dissatisfaction with the more hopeful ending, but then I've seen the Red Riding Trilogy (which True Detective reminded me of as soon as I started hearing threads of its story) and that seemed endlessly bleak and hopeless by the end.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Just watched this on disc. Great stuff.

I love Sam and Hanson, but they are out of their skulls on this one. (Just a quick comment. . .when Rust talks about letting go but then waking up, and then bursts into tears for the first time, it feels to me like his first solid proof *against* the existence of an afterlife or higher power -- up to that point, it was all just speculation on his part.)

The uplifting ending was totally earned, and the two guys winding up arm in arm seemed completely organic to the story. Incidentally, after watching the extra features on the discs, I am pretty convinced that the entire story was written up front (which doesn't preclude changes as it went along, but they certainly weren't developing the story on the fly).