ENTERPRISE 04/30/'03: "Cogenitor" (1 Viewer)

[Everlasting Gobstopper]

All I know is that Kirk would have slaughtered every single alien on that ship.

 

[Tony Whalen]

All I know is that Kirk would have slaughtered every single alien on that ship.

After he had his way with the Cogenitor first....

 

[Jack Briggs]

And you know sumpin? Whenever I try to put it all in perspective when I go through these Star Trek-can't-get-any-worse phases, all I have to do is think about Jim Kirk on all fours playing horsey (and whinnying to boot). So was last night's debacle as bad as "Bread and Circuses"? Maybe not. But the story was such a lazy cop-out. As The Beatles sang, "Taking the easy way out, yeah..."

 

[Tony Whalen]

all I have to do is think about Jim Kirk on all fours playing horsey (and whinnying to boot).

Jack, we may disagree on Enterprise, but on that we can totally agree.

I said it earlier....

(singing)Ah...ahahah... Bitter dregs. (/singing)

 

[Doug Smith]

Nothing truly science fiction about this episode? Gee a race with three sexes sounds pretty science fiction to me. To some true great science fiction is when human foibles, morality, perception, etc. are put to the test, in fantastic situations (ie. space travel) that are almost unimaginable. This is why some of the original Star Trek shows are so fun to watch. Its the hman interaction either amonst themselves in bizarre situations or with aliens - not how the aliens makeup job looks. Sorry Jack I completely disagree - you may not like it, but look at the response this episode is getting in comparison to others - both pro and con. And thats what its all about.

 

[Terry St]

Whenever I try to put it all in perspective when I go through these Star Trek-can't-get-any-worse phases, all I have to do is think about Jim Kirk on all fours playing horsey (and whinnying to boot).

Just when I thought I had successfully purged that image from my mind...


Anyways, I will say this for "Cogenitor": It actually gave us a lot to discuss. It was unusual for an Enterprise episode in that respect. Therefore I retract my origional assessment. It's well worth watching.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

I did like the fact that Archer was so wrapped up in getting the first contact stuff to go off without a hitch, he didn't think of the consequences of not allowing the cogenitor to become free of "its" bondage, or at least ignored them to some degree. It also shows he's trying to not interfere so often in other "alien" cultures even if his human beliefs tell him they're wrong. Maybe we're starting to see a new side to Archer... maybe.

So, both Tripp and Archer handled things poorly. At least Tripp learned that you may be well intentioned, but unless you really know the score, things can go horribly wrong...

A decent episode all in all. I was pleasantly surprised to see a non happy ending this time around.

Anybody read about Enterprise's "bold" "new" strategy for saving the franchise this next season? What do ya'll think? Why do you believe T'Pol will resign from her commission, but stay aboard Enterprise with a more feminine look (besides the fact that sex sells)? Romance with Archer? Fed up with Vulcan "logic?" More human loving than she lets on? Hmmm...

Dan

 

[Qui-Gon John]

First off, great to see Andreas Katsulas in any role.

I was disappointed with the way Archer handled Tripp at the end. Yes, admonish him for what he did wrong, but then, to your best friend, concede "we're learning together, I myself have 'interfered' in other species cultures because I thought I was doing the right thing. From now on we are going to have to be a lot more careful in how we judge other species and how we apply our standards or decency and morality when dealing with them".

Finally, as someone else mentioned, I think this would have been more interesting if the show made it a point to show that the cogenitor was very happy with it's life and in it's role. Had no interest in the things Tripp was pushing. Then you would have dealt even more with Tripp's perception of it's treatment vs. the way things are.

One other thing, I was glad to see that, except for this situation with the cogenitor, there was not some 'evil' agenda of the Vissian's. Too often, when Archer & Co. meet a species that they seem to be getting along with or building a good relationship, the other species turns out to actually be bad guys with some hidden agenda, too cliche.

 

[Tony Whalen]

to your best friend, concede "we're learning together, I myself have 'interfered' in other species cultures because I thought I was doing the right thing.

See.. I disagree with you there John. I think Trip needed a good, solid slap-in-the-face. He f***ed up. Badly.

Yes.. Archer has messed stuff up. Yes, Archer and Trip are best buddies. But there is a time when a CO has to seperate his feelings for his buddies and those of his officers, and this was one of those times.

Archer has screwed up, yes. I totally agree. (I'll never forget/forgive the whole fracas with Porthos beaming down and peeing on sacred trees...)

However... there is an important distinction there. Archer is the commanding officer. Ultimatley, it's his call to make. Trip is NOT the CO. He doesn't have the right to make those decisions. (Just the viewpoint from a former military person...heh) Would Archer have done the same thing? Maybe.

On the other hand, it does seem like a case of "do as I say, not as I do", doesn't it?

Personally, I can hardly wait until they introduce the Prime Directive.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Has anyone ever noticed that the only time Archer is conerned with interfering in another alien's culture is during Act V of a "Prime Directive" episode?

 

[Will_B]

Regarding the pronoun issue, how about: he, she, and thou? Thou generally means "you" but it could be tweaked to mean something else.

 

[Anthony Hom]

Wasn't Kirk playing horsey in "Plato's Stepchildren" and not "Bread and Circuses" Although to be fair, one did have a greek theme, the other a roman theme.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Tony, I'm retired military too. In in normal circumstances I'd agree with you 100%. But in this case (Enterprise and Archer...not just Cogenitor), Archer has stepped on aliens toes way too many times, and in full knowledge in front of Tripp, to take such a holier than thou position with Tripp. Lambast him as definitely what he did was wrong, sure, (but even Archer somewhat recognized 'his poor example') so use that to build a new position on interference going forward.

Instead, as I see it, Archer acted as if nobody on Enterprise, himself included, has ever interferred with the way another species does things and how dare Tripp assume he could do so in this case. Just ain't so.

 

[Tony Whalen]

I hear ya John. Like I said, it DOES seem like a case of "do as I say, not as I do", right?

But, with the times that Archer screwed up, did anyone DIE as a direct result of his actions? (This is not a rhetorical question.. I honestly don't remember at the moment.)

SOMEONE had to take a stand, lest they merrily run around the galaxy screwing up every civilization they encounter... While Archer's lambasting may have been heavy-handed, I far prefer it to "That's okay Trip, just don't do it again."

 

[Qui-Gon John]

While Archer's lambasting may have been heavy-handed, I far prefer it to "That's okay Trip, just don't do it again."

Yes Tony, that wouldn't have been good either, I think something in between might have been best. Just a slight bit less heavy-handed and then talk to him about how he set a bad example in the umpteen instances where he himself interferred. Then go on and talk about how they are going to have to be a lot more careful in dealing with other species and honoring their ways, etc.

 

[Everlasting Gobstopper]

After he had his way with the Cogenitor first....

"You may be... a cogenitor, but you're still... a woman."

 

[Dan Rudolph]

Archer even tells Tripp he doesn't know what he would have doen in the situation. The point is, he shouldn't have taken this upon himself.

I thought the point of the episode was that there's more to dealing with this sort of situation than what you feel is right or wrong. You also need to think about the consequences. Tripp failed to do this. Archer was right to get after him, but he was also right than he's been a bad example.

 

[Patrick Sun]

The main lesson was that Tripp was guilty of imposing his personal value system on another species of life with very little regard for the impact on that species' overall reproductive cycle on a macro-level, which could have a domino effect in making conception a much harder ordeal than the present conditions. Tripp failed to see the bigger picture and the tale becomes something akin to "No good deed goes unpunished." Tripp's intentions were honorable from a human standpoint, but not everything in the galaxy will conform to human terms.

I would have busted Tripp to chef for a month (if it were possible to get by without him at his position).

 

[Glenn Overholt]

The he/she/it thing said it all. You can shout out, 'We the people," but that won't include 'it's". Both Tripp and Archer missed that one. Yes, it was alive, but it would be closer to a pet dying, but you have to consider that they only borrowed the pet from someone else, so it wasn't really theirs in the first place. Not much of a loss, except that the conception would be delayed.

I was wondering what movies they gave them, and then thought - oh yeah, Star Wars - all six of them! Can you see a little note attached to the movies telling them that it is much better if they start with episode 4 first?

And everybody here missed the real point of the show. They gave them books and movies with no royalities paid back. A genuine copyright infringement! Call the DMCA!

Glenn

 

[Patrick Sun]

In the 2150s, mankind is more willing to share than nowadays.