Ads before the film? (1 Viewer)

[mtlfilmguy]

Well, im pretty happy my original post got some replies but i got to think when i posted it on i believe Friday that i would let the weekend pass and replies would start appearing.

On Saturday i thought this thread would only be filled with cricket sounds and i was gonna go " Bueller ? Bueller? "

Thanks to Jonesy for that Captiveaudience.org website,another fine addition to my (in a Carl Sagan voice ) " billions and billions " of bookmarks.
Yes i know he never said it.

Here in Montreal,tickets are 10 or 12 bucks,and theres a big part of me that dearly wants to put an end to all that audiovisual pollution called movie ads,but as i mentioned in my first post,im afraid the chains only quick fix in this would be "fine no more ads but your ticket is now 14 bucks "

googling for other no-movie-ads related websites i came upon one that mentioned something called digital signage.

Now if i understand correctly its basically a way of setting up big projection tv's (which are already present by the dozens in the big multiplexes at least,and are running a loop of previews ALREADY )
that would in effect show ads throughout the cinema floors and not in the actual screening rooms themselves.
So the theater gets to keep his advertisements without annoying the patrons who can now sit early where they want to and not have a freakin Subaru race loudly for 3 minutes right before i watch the film i paid for.

Im not even gonna go into the whole having actual trailers that fit the genre youre watching instead of now getting a Scary movie trailer right before a Saw(hows that for messing up your head for 10-15 minutes )

ill have to look into that digital signage stuff though

Ben

 

[mtlfilmguy]

Well, im pretty happy my original post got some replies but i got to think when i posted it on i believe Friday that i would let the weekend pass and replies would start appearing.

On Saturday i thought this thread would only be filled with cricket sounds and i was gonna go " Bueller ? Bueller? "

Thanks to Jonesy for that Captiveaudience.org website,another fine addition to my (in a Carl Sagan voice ) " billions and billions " of bookmarks.
Yes i know he never said it.

Here in Montreal,tickets are 10 or 12 bucks,and theres a big part of me that dearly wants to put an end to all that audiovisual pollution called movie ads,but as i mentioned in my first post,im afraid the chains only quick fix in this would be "fine no more ads but your ticket is now 14 bucks "

googling for other no-movie-ads related websites i came upon one that mentioned something called digital signage.

Now if i understand correctly its basically a way of setting up big projection tv's (which are already present by the dozens in the big multiplexes at least,and are running a loop of previews ALREADY )
that would in effect show ads throughout the cinema floors and not in the actual screening rooms themselves.
So the theater gets to keep his advertisements without annoying the patrons who can now sit early where they want to and not have a freakin Subaru race loudly for 3 minutes right before i watch the film i paid for.

Im not even gonna go into the whole having actual trailers that fit the genre youre watching instead of now getting a Scary movie trailer right before a Saw(hows that for messing up your head for 10-15 minutes )

ill have to look into that digital signage stuff though

Ben

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I've more or less learned to live with the ads, because let's face it, it's not like there's much of a choice. You can choose to not go, of course, but that's not exactly the greatest of alternatives.

One theater I go to actually got better about it when it changed hands from Loews to AMC. When it was still a Loews theater, if the movie was scheduled to start at 5:30 for example, they would play radio-type commercials over the speakers until 5:30, and then have ten minutes of commercials and then ten minutes of trailers. So a 5:30 movie wouldn't start until almost 6:00, which is ridiculous. When it changed hands and became a Loews, they still had ads, but they did them a little differently. If it was a 5:30 movie, the ads would show before 5:30, and then at 5:30 the trailers would begin. In a perfect world, there would be no ads of course, but I can almost live with it if they happen before the scheduled start time and not afterwards.

I like to get to the movies early so I can get my preferred seat. That's probably never going to change. But the way it used to be, I'd sit there and wait for the movie to start and then have to deal with all of the commercial crap, so it was essentially a whole different round of waiting. As it is now, I get there early, and while I wait I have to sit through commercials, but the movie and trailers start on time, so at least the waiting isn't prolonged by it.

I'd sit through a damn marathon of commercials if I could go to a theater that was just one giant screen, with fresh popcorn in buckets and not bags, where no little kids were ever allowed into R movies, no kids at late night showings (I'm still annoyed that I had to listen to a baby crying at an 11pm showing of Lethal Weapon 4 way back when), etc. I also think that if a cell phone goes off audibly or someone is talking, they should pause the movie, turn the lights on, and let the rest of the people in the audience throw things at them. Or a James Bond/Austin Powers/Dr. Evil sort of chair where the bottom drops out and the person falls into a pit of fire. There's really nothing worse than paying your hard earned money to see a movie only to be surrounded by people who don't see any problem with using the movies as a place to have conversation or a place to bring screaming infants.

(I'm not talking about people who bring little kids to see G rated movies, I'm talking about irresponsible parents who bring them to R rated movies showing late at night. I'm not talking about people who talk during the trailers or end credits, or when someone needs to whisper a quick word to someone, I'm talking about people who actually talk on their cell phones during the movie or to their friends about the day's gossip.)

Wow, I think I have some anger issues to work out here

 

[Johnny Angell]

I remember seeing Rising Sun in a theater. Some father had brought his 8 year-old boy to the movie and sat behind us. He's kicking my chair, squirming, and talking during the movie and wondering what was going on during a certain scene with some pretty explicit oral sex.

When the lights went up I turned around and said "great movie for a kid, wasn't it?" I continued to talk to him as he slunk out of the theater. I've never been so pissed-off in a theater.

 

[MielR]

No, you sound perfectly reasonable to me. In fact I wish all people were that reasonable.

I was at a theater recently with my Mom and my Sister, and we're sitting there talking about a phone call my Sister had received from our cousin that day. Now, the lights were still on in the theater and they were showing some sort of "making-of" promo for an upcoming TV show. This grumpy old man in front of us turns around and looks at us, and rudely asks if we're going to still be talking like that during the movie! We were kind of shocked and reminded him the movie hadn't started yet (the TRAILERS hadn't even started yet!) and the lights were still on and people were still walking into the theater! He said something lame about wanting to watch the commercial. The woman sitting next to him (who I assume was his wife) was very quiet and seemed embarassed. We were very annoyed, and this group of women in back of us started laughing very loudly (about something unrelated to us) and I kept looking at the old coot to see if he was going to turn around and yell at them too.

It was all I could do not to throw popcorn at the back of his head after the movie started. Now THAT'S a person who needs stay home and watch DVDs.

 

[John Dirk]

Commercials? What commercials? I never show them.

My theater is perfectly tailored to my liking. It's affordable and NEVER includes commercials of any kind during movie time. I get to do all of the cool things ErichH mentioned too, though he's on his own with the nekkid stuff. As an added bonus, I automatically win any arguement when in my own theater [unless my wife is with me, then it's more like 20% of them]

Speaking of the wife, I hate it when she drags me to "commercial" theaters. I went through the expense, time and trouble of building our own so that we would never again have to put up with the various crap they try to force on you in those places. Now I'm all for folks making money, but do it through actual innovation, not through the marginalization of your product. It's like the candy bar that's just a weee bit smaller [yet also a wee bit more expensive] each year. (As if we're not going to notice)

What really amazes me is that there are actually differing opinions on this one. I mean, we're supposed to be movie enthusiasts here!!! Don't get me wrong, I respect everyones right to have whatever opinion they choose. I just can't believe we don't all agree on this particular issue. Thankfully, the technology gods have been good to me and I can just opt out of the commercial theater circus.

The failure of the consuming public to lash out against this kind of thing makes us ripe for the picking. It's no wonder they treat us the way they do in this and other areas [like this ridiculous HD DVD - BD DVD "war"] - There should only be a war if we [the consumers] say there will be. But I digress...

Consumers didn't have to put up with any of this, but the companies knew they could count on division in our ranks to weaken us, and that they would ultimately get away with it. Perhaps next year they will start selling NFL style PSL's for the better viewing venues. Why not? Someone out there will say it's "fair and reasonable." I bet when the Germans showed up at the Austrian border there were still some folks who just didn't see anything wrong with that.:frowning:

Gunny

 

[Shawn DuHast]

Here in England (where we've had ad's b4 films for ever it seems like) some cinemas are now putting the trailers first, then the ads, then the film and all from the supposed start time of the film.......
So I can't walk in 10mins after advertised start time and still see the trailers anymore........

 

[DaveF]

What's the moral imperative against ads before showtime? Give me the well-produced "20", with clever ads, decent behind-the-scenes EPK material, and jaunty music over the tedious trivia slides from a few years back.

And I don't understand the lumping of trailers into the "ads" category. While they are advertisements for upcoming features, these are a specific part of the movie-going experience. In fact, they're so desired per se that Apple has an entire website devoted to them!

So long as the ad material isn't too loud and ends at the movie showtime, I've no real problem with them. You might disagree. But that's ok. You can come to the theater a bit later than I do.

 

[Sean Richardson]

I think people are annoyed when, after 10 minutes of ads, the lights dim further, and then there are 10 more minutes of trailers.

For me, the annoying thing about trailers is when they're wildly mis-matched. Like going to see 'The Simpsons' and seeing four ads for a bunch of kiddie CGI animated movies. Or going to see 'The Break-Up' (or some similar comedy) and seeing a trailer for 'World Trade Center'.

 

[John Dirk]

Hi Dave;

For me there is no imperative since my theater does not show ads, but the problem comes from the studios changing the arrangement without a benefit to us, the consumer. When I pay to see a movie that is all I want to see, as per the original agreement. Ticket prices continue to soar even with the ads. I'm not suggesting a crusade to get rid of them, only theorizing that at some point the studios held meetings to determine whether or not they could get away with this. They ultimately decided that they could, possibly because they suspected the viewing public would complain for awhile and then capitulate. Just as we have collectively done. A movie theater used to be a special place. One where you could escape from the overly commercialized real world into the storyline of a well-crafted comedic, dramatic [etc] journey. Now, with ads before the film along with blatant and excessive product-placement during it, the experience has been severely diminished in my view. I see that as a terrible shame and a defeat for enthusiasts such as us.

Perhaps I'm overly sensitive. Even TV ads are bothersome to me, since the original agreement was that we would get the programming free in exchange for tolerating some advertisements. Now we pay [dearly] for the programming, but the ads remain. Some are indeed clever and well-produced, but that is beside the point. This was one of the many reasons I opted out of pay TV. I am now very happy with the dozen or so free [HD] channels I get with my tuner. The uncompressed signals are of better quality that sat or cable and they don't go out at the first sign of rain [a huge problem with Comcast in my area]. The ads no longer bother me because I never get a monthly bill.

Just curious. Where did you stand on the Divx issue?

Gunny

 

[Leo Kerr]

Over the years, different theaters have handled things... differently. There used to be a Loews half an hour away that I used to go to, because they were good.

And if they claimed a 1:45 start time, they'd dim the lights to half and start the previews at 1:35, and first active picture of the studio logo would go through the gate at 1:45.

They were going down before they turned Sony, and I haven't been back in years.

Just last Friday, I went to Rush Hour 3 at the local Muvico megaplex, and was dismayed to see that the "preshow garbage" had turned into a long, 20 minute or so "program" with sound, hosts, advertisements, and all sorts of annoying garbage. (Never mind that the LCD projector running this had a fried optical block and its blue polarizer was shot.) Then, a minute or so before the posted start time, it wrapped up with "the show will begin shortly."

After a while, someone went back and found someone, and then at about the 12 minute mark, the previews began.

I still haven't commented to the chain management, but from my own experience, when you're doing show automation, you either

a. make d--- sure it really works, or
b. check on it when it's supposed to go.

They tend not to show adverts in the trailer sequence, and usually the presentation is good, but they, too, seem to be going downhill...

 

[mtlfilmguy]

( Ben starts passing munchies and grub around )

I've heard somewhere that food helps further the flow of the exchange among film fans such as this group.

(pause)

Ok fine! i just like to eat, shut up!


So here we are folks,do we keep quietly typing away in our little forum on the net or do we devise some well thought-out plan to firmly voice our discontent ?

Do we all literally become like Mumbles (Dustin Hoffman character in Dick Tracy) or do we try and give back the MOVIE EXPERIENCE its laurels?

or is everybody now staring at me like i'm a leper?

I really did start this thread because i...well..because im so very passionate about this extraordinary thing we call the seventh art.This is why i became a screenwriter.

I remember reading long ago how this art emcompasses a lot of the other ones.
Like theater,photography,dance and the sublime sounds of well-written dialogue like Mamet's Glengarry glen ross or Robert Bolt's Lawrence of Arabia to name just a few.

We'll probably never get back the sumptuous visuals of the Palaces of early days,but maybe we can keep the wondrous feeling alive in those glowing beams of projected light.


(I do need to make a pilgrimage to that Cinerama theater in Seattle one day.)

Ben

 

[BernieV]

The only cinema I attend any more is the Stanford classic film theater. The only prefilm entertainment I am treated to is a 15-minute recital on their fully restored Wurlitzer, sometimes accompanied by a vocalist from one of the nearby clubs. David Packard (of HP fame) has done a wonderful job restoring the theater to pre-multiplex standards. He often appears on stage - yes, a real stage! - in evening dress to introduce the evening's selection and give a little historical background on the film. We are never subjected to ads, and the trailers are for movies of the same era, usually upcoming features. Seats are often sold out, so if you arrive late the box office may be closed. They manage to keep ticket prices down to $6, too.

The genre of films shown there won't appeal to many modern movie-goers, but they might be interested to know what the theater experience was like in the good old days before marketeers embarked on their mission of making sure we all enjoyed more and more advertising in our lifetimes, before ads had to become more incessant and intrusive to prevent any escape. The next step will be placing commercial breaks in the middle of a show. Hey, no one will mind, and besides, it's your "duty" to watch.

 

[DaveF]

John, I think a good commercial can be just as much fun as a good movie. The best ads are 30-sec works of art. I watch the Superbowl for the ads, not the game But you've gone native -- won't pay for TV and no theaters. Just you in your fortress in the wilderness with your 100" screen The ads could all be sublime, and you'd still have no interest in them. So we're just not going to agree on this one.

For me, even if the ads are annoying, I'll put up with them. Even if I had a home theater, 9-foot screen isn't a 30-foot screen. And sometimes I want to see a movie now, not 5 months from now. Or just get out of the house.

But, as I said, in my local theater, the ads aren't a bid deal. Previews start at show time. Then the movie starts. The pre-movie time ads are ok. And I can ignore them if I want. I'm more concerned about a decline in presentation quality. Scratchy films. Anti-piracy marker codes in prints. Poor sound. If that continues, well, I join you in the woods to watch movies without interruption

 

[John Dirk]

Hi again Dave;

No offense is intended but I think you may be missing the point. I love a good commercial and I also watch the Superbowl in anticipation of some really clever advertising. We all know that companies now spend millions on the production of the ads aside from the actual airtime. Up to this point, I bet you and I do agree and could have a great time laughing at ads together, although I do not [exactly] live in the "wilderness" as you imply and it's a 150" screen.

But the problem is, everything has its place. It is my contention that ads do not belong in movie theaters. They were made for [and should remain on] the small screen where the programming was once upon a time provided free in exchange for our viewing them. The insidious intrusion of product-placement ads is offensive enough, but I was willing to tolerate that in moderation. If we do disagree, then I suspect it is on this front. But evenso, I have respect for your [and others] opinions. I just feel saddened by this stance because it diludes the very unity that I feel could reverse the position the studios have taken. That's why I asked you about DIVX, since we won that one by sticking together.

I understand that ads don't personally bother you. But the real question is "is the practice wrong?" As an example, I personally hate smoking, but I do not believe local and state governments are justified when they categorically ban it. As long as it's kept away from me, I feel people should have the right to smoke, even in public places. Sometimes it annoys me, but I still feel they have the right to do it if they choose.

Now having said all of that, I do occasionally have to visit commercial theaters as part of my marriage agreement. I enjoy watching a new film in a really nice theater with my wife, and the ads [while annoying] do not ruin my overall experience.

Finally, I couldn't agree more about the declining quality of commercial theaters in general. Since this is happening at the same time we are being given access to some very cutting-edge home theater options, I feel all the more compelled to stay home most of the time.

Gunny

 

[mtlfilmguy]

It just hit me.

I think im preaching this to the wrong crowd.

bear with me for a moment.

I dont have a huge appartment (which means no big home theater)
and no kids(which means my spending isnt decided on a large amount for babysitting,parking gas,concession stand etc,etc, and the easy decision of staying home to watch a dvd)
Which makes me realise that my situation is probably different from a large percentage of the good folks here.

literally,i just noticed im in the HOMETHEATER forum.

see what im saying?

sure were all cinephiles and enthusiasts,but i think that my soapbox rants are for the most part, going to fall on deaf ears

and im not even sure that correcting my initial error by placing this thread in the movies section would solve anything anyways.

John Dirk's last post gave me a seed of a great idea though,and that is maybe convince the chains to look at the benefits of having no-ads theaters.
Lets say you make THAT an experience for a week(out of the 12 theaters in a multiplex,if 4 are showing Bourne ultimatum,you tell the patrons that 1 is an ads-less zone and you gather comments after the screening)

with the right word of mouth or bit of advertising,im willing to bet my screenwriting arm it would show them the error of their ways.

or is there some variables or math im completely overlooking here?

All this nonsense sure parallels what happened in the 50's when movie theaters pulled people away from that new technology called the television set.Except that for now tv is still winning.

But im not gonna do a Werner Herzog and eat my shoe if it fails,as i have a very frail stomach.

Ben

 

[John Dirk]

Hi Ben;

I'm glad you started this thread [regardless of what forum it appears in] because I think it is a very timely topic that warrents some discussion. While I doubt your suggestion would interest the studios [they already know we would rather not have the ads] I do think it would be a great litmus test for those who say they don't mind them. I bet nearly all of them would choose the ad-free theater if it were of otherwise equal quality and price. Too bad we'll probably never find out for sure.

Gunny

 

[mtlfilmguy]

looking through my old Sound and vision magazines i found this from 2003.

I looked it up and it still lives!

http://www.commercialalert.org/issues/culture/movies

sadly it seems that the articles on movies stop around 2005,but i 'm not giving up ,and i havent seen what it says about taking action on it.

remember what Dylan says "do not go gentle into that good night "

back to research

,us writers LOVE research (and no its NOT procrastination )

Ben

 

[Tarkin The Ewok]

The way I see it, I'm already showing up early to get a good seat, so the theaters who do the 20-minute ad show before the start time aren't causing me any harm. The alternative is paying a higher price for the theater experience, which would just drive me to blind-buy DVDs.

 

[mtlfilmguy]

that's fine,but you do still understand that by wanting to be there early to have a nice seat,they force you to watch ads and you have no choice,plus you indirectly pay for WATCHING them which isnt part of the deal in the first place.

Its as if someone saying "Out of your 12 dollars,we didnt mention that 2 dollars are so we can force you to watch 20 minutes of loud ads of stuff you dont want to buy and if youre not happy with it well you can just buy the dvd and shut up then ".

Everybody loses.Them and us.

but if you say they dont do you harm i guess youre fine with that situation.
I'm looking for pissed-off and fed-up people.

Ben