10 Dead in Minn. Shootings, 6 at School (1 Viewer)

[ThomasC]

n/m

 

[ChrisHeflen]

"The Red Lake killings began at the home of Weise's grandfather, Daryl Lussier, 58, a tribal police officer..."

I don't think he had to put forth much effort in stealing a gun from a cop. He lived with his grandfather.

"Weise then drove his grandfather's police car to the school, where he gunned down unarmed security guard..."

Once again easy access.
Gun control should mean guns in the hands of people who need them.
A little boy shot himself in my town because he had access to his fathers' (a police chief) loaded, available gun.
And on and on and on...

1 person killed 8 people in a country populated by at least 293,027,571 people. It's still sad to hear about these things, but I'd say on a whole that we're doing pretty well for ourselves.

I disagree, I think this will become more and more common.
Instead of it getting better it isn't. For example, are we cracking down on the neo-nazi sites or whatever "inspires" these kids to think like this? No, that would violate their freedoms. Oh ok, mean while someones son and daughter are dead POSSIBLY becuase of it. Everybody cries I want freedom and to do what I want. And then there are hardly any consequences. If there are, it's sitting in jail, eating, watching cable, working out. Hell I think I'd like to go to jail for vacation.

Meanwhile, like somebody before mentioned, people are more interested in steroid abuse among retired athtletes.

 

[ThomasC]

Internet sites cannot be shut down because of their content in most cases. The Internet is not owned by the United States or any other country, it's an international network.

 

[Holadem]

Also, there is this little thing called freedom of speech.

--
H

 

[D. Scott MacDonald]

I'm still not sure that I understand the point. Are you saying that: 1) People who own guns should lock them up responsibly, or 2) that nobody (including police officers) should be allowed to keep guns in their home?

I would agree that gun owners should keep them locked up responsibly, but I'm still guessing that a determined kid can still sneak in and steal the key while his grandfather sleeps.

 

[Steve Kuester]

Someone please explain to me how a few more gun control laws would have stopped this kid. How many were broken to begin with? I'm at a loss as to how a few more laws would have stopped this tragedy.

And no, taking them out of society is not an answer. To borrow from Holadem's post... There's this little thing called the 2nd amendment.

 

[andrew markworthy]

I agree that if you've only heard the superficial details it sounds like a miscarriage of justice. However, if you had followed the case carefully, you'd know that there was a lot more to this case and verdict was a fair one.

 

[Ron-P]

No one will be able too because gun control laws only affect the law abiding citizen, not the criminal. Guns will always be available to anyone at anytime no matter what laws are put in place.

 

[ChrisHeflen]

I'm saying that keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong people, a little boy in a police chiefs home, or mr. Weise. should be "gun control". Whatever that would mean. IF it's leave the gun at work or take it home and lock it up. Whatever.

 

[andrew markworthy]

They won't because the USA has a culture where gun ownership is endemic. In my posts I've tried to demonstrate that the USA's higher murder rate is an inevitable consequence of a gun culture with ridiculously lax controls over ownership. However, I don't think that you can cure the problem by bans or stronger controls - there are too many guns available for legislation to have much effect except on the law-abiding, and as people have already noted, the law-abiding aren't the problem.

 

[D. Scott MacDonald]

Andrew, I for one am not disagreeing with you, and I can see many pros (as well as cons) to tougher gun restrictions here in the US (although I'm not sure how freely we can discuss this here since it is largely a political argument).

But just as many people will have knee jerk reactions to blame heavy metal or violent video games, others will have a knee jerk reaction to blame gun legislation. As others have pointed out, gun legislation doesn't appear to be the issue with this particular case.

Other knee jerk reactions that are ostensible at best include:

- Blame the parents (his dad was dead, his mother was institutionalized, and I haven't heard enough about the grandparents to have an opinion about them).

- If only the guard were armed (he probably still would have been dead since he was the first one at the school to be shot, it would have been a total surprise either way and he probably wouldn't have had time to draw his weapon).

- Had only somebody reached out to him (it sounds like this kid was messed up for a really long time, and the argument also assumes that 1) nobody did reach out to him and that 2) a simple gesture would have turned him around, which is overly simplistic).

In reality, these types of events are typically complicated and often the proposed "quick fixes" are too simple to be relevant.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

*Sigh* Another high scool shooting by a kid. And I'm sure some people still think this world's not going to hell and that school shootouts like these always used to occur.

And yep, the gangsta rap, the violent video games, allowing all ages into R rated films, the fact that parents today cannot possibly keep tabs on everything their kids are involved with on a 24/7 basis, has much to do with this. In 1955 there weren't so many factors for the average mom and dad to monitor constantly (no internet sites, no video games, no gangsta rap, no 1,000 television channels, etc... etc..) -- so while it is indeed the parents' responsibility, they've got a helluva lot more to intercept in 2005 than they ever did before. And besides that, both parents have to work quite a lot of the time nowadays.

The "video games," the "gangsta rap," and all the other things people mention as catalysts to violence are only part of the problem, not everything. But they do indeed help to create a very angry, cold, indifferent, deprssive, jaded CLIMATE. The climate is completely negative.

Boy, is it Over.

 

[ChrisHeflen]

Not quite yet, but can you really say it's getting better?.

 

[Greg Morse]

I disagree with this. The fact that Brendon Fearon was able to sue Tony Martin for "loss of employment" using public funds is an absolute travesty. Remember, in the States you can shoot an intruder if you fear for your safety, not necessarily if you really are in danger. Just one of those things about this country that I've discovered most Brits can't fathom. (Just like I can't fathom Spotted Dick).

As the saying goes, "Better to be tried by 9, than carried by 6".

 

[Holadem]

As much as I loathe guns, I really don't think they have anything to do with this case. That should be pretty obvious, no?

--
H

 

[MarkHastings]

True. Since he killed himself, it's pretty safe to think that he would have gone with any attempt at destruction.

If he didn't use a gun, he probably would have used a bomb and no ammount of gun control laws would have stopped him.

 

[Holadem]

Well, I was more thinking that he stole the gun from a cop, who we can all agree should be armed.

--
H

 

[Ken Chan]

I was agreeing with you, but apparently didn't do a good job of it. But my main goal was to cast a critical eye on the "20,000 gun laws" meme.

 

[andrew markworthy]

Overall in the UK there has been a reduction, but there has been a marked increase in gun use amongst criminal gangs, particularly in the big cities (London, Birmingham, Manchester, etc). It is increased gun use amongst a tiny proportion of the UK population that is largely responsible for the rise in the murder rate. I don't argue that the USA's rate has fallen in recent years, but the fact remains it is still way too high.

 

[Garrett Lundy]

2 things:

1. If the grandfather was a "tribal" polic officer, it makes me believe he lived on a reservation, and in such a case virtually none of the US's gun control laws would still be in effect there.

2. For some reason the national media seems to be ignoring this? The much more tame Schiavo (sp?) case is getting front-page headlines, but the mass shooting is appearantly AWOL now on the news