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If the CD layer was a contributing factor for the death of DD, then why did SACD fail? :) SACD hybrid discs have a 100% redbook compliant CD layer. DD failed, along with SACD and DVD-A, because "Joe Sixpack" doesn't care about high res multichannel music. He does care about his iPod though. ;)

To be honest, I think that the problem with the CD layer was only a very small part of DD's demise. Most people I know :), didn't buy these discs for the CD layer anyway. They bought them for the high res (in some cases), multichannel content. But the market has spoken. Most people simply don't...

If Dual Disc had *really* taken off, I bet manufacturers would have modified new players to deal with the differences. Oh well.

I'm trying not to get mad. :) I think most of us know that Steve Hoffman is going to do a version of the Peppers new release ... for lp. I just found out that he's also going to do an lp version for the Yes Album. WTF?!?! Why not versions for CD? And this just also reaffirms my...

Lance- DualDiscs have to be more expensive to make than CD + DVD sets. 2 reasons: 1) There is no "attachment" of a CD to a DVD with a 2-fer. There will be a certain amount of yield loss during that operation. So yield is lower, which means that the per unit cost is slightly higher. 2) And...

I don't know man. :) I give them credit for trying one more time. But I just don't see the market. Here would be a question for anyone who thinks that people really want music with video content: how well do concert DVDs sell? Me? I don't want any video with my audio. One reason why I always...

From the SH link: A sine wave is a construct in time. Sampling freq is across time. (Horizontally modelling the sine wave.) The word length comprises the signal at one instant in time: there is no sine wave in that case. It is simply one "step" in the sine wave. (Vertically modelling the...

Lance- AFAIK, word length only has to do with dynamic range. Sampling freq is what gives you more samples to better represent a sine wave. Sampling freq is across time, word length is a static snapshop in time. ?? Plus, an extended freq response allows you to use a shallower antialiasing...

24/48 is not a step up from 16/48 IMO. The vast majority of CD producers do not utilize the dynamic range of 16/44, so 24/48 is simply a waste for most discs. High res begins with 24/96. Greater dynamic range capability along with extended high freq response.

The issue isn't whether DualDisc survives and SACD doesn't. The issue is that it seems pretty apparent to me, that the general public just isn't interested. Hence, *no* high res, multichannel music format is going to work. I can still hope something changes with HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray, but I...

Rachael- Analog outs and ins will never disappear. Too many of us still listen to lp. :)

Actually, initial players will be able to "decode" the new DD and DTS and any new high res formats to at least 5.1 24/96 PCM (and maybe even 24/192) and send that over HDMI. Any receiver or pre/pro HDMI 1.1 compliant or later, will be able to work with the new players. So there is some backwards...

Bet the next ones won't be. :) And actually, I don't think the definition of Blu-ray includes DSD for audio. So might not even matter.

Rachel- Good point. Maybe with HDMI, MC music will have another chance. Here's another thought too: let's say the majors realize that there *isn't* a large market out. So OK, they put out a high res version of Genesis' The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway ... for $30. I'd buy it. :) So now maybe...

SACD is still here. So it's not that bad. :) In fact, in Europe at least, 11 Depeche Mode SACDs have just been (or very soon to be) released. I suppose we can all hope that one of Blu-ray and HD-DVD "sticks" for multichannel audio, but personally, I think all of SACD, DVD-A, and DualDisc have...

I'm wondering if a lot of SACDs, DVD-As, and DualDiscs might end up as collector's items...

The 588 isn't that old. I think it's been out about a year or so. Pio typically has 2 year cycles for its players. Plus, there *would* be more cheap universal players ... if there were people to buy them. Free market economics. :) In fact, about 4 months ago or so, I saw some blurb about...

I wanted to see if I could "see" the effect of the poor quality CD layer. I proved to myself that concerns about the quality of the CD side are warranted.

The problem with DualDisc I think stated earlier in this thread, is that due to the nonstandard thickness, the CD layer can cause a player's error correction to go into overdrive. And what *that* means, is that there can be errors that are being passed along to you in terms of not quite up to...

I would have liked to have seen a video *option* for SACDs. The format that's used for video CDs would have been enough. And then video-capable SACD players could "see" that info for playback.

You're missing the point. :) It's not the music industry that's disinterested in high res multichannel music. 3 different formats have now been launched, and as far as the masses go, they all have crashed and burned. It's the *masses* that simply do not care about high res multichannel music...

Lance- Those are fake yield numbers to show the example. Just that when you slap them together, you multiply them, but if you keep them separate, it's more of an additive thing. I just think it's funny how much DualDiscs were marketed at the beginning, and then in the end, how quickly they...

Good stuff. I also had asked previously what the point of DualDisc was. But my reasoning was slightly different: manufacturing yield. Let's say the yield for the CD "side" is 90%, and 85% for the DVD-A "side". ("Sides" or individual discs.) If I sell a two-fer: Out of 100 CDs, I get...