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Lee, I have no problem with most of that, the catch is that "sonic truth" is a matter of opinion ;) It is the Pyramix solution that's 32bit/352K, and that's Philips' product, right? Regards,

Neil, That is not wide-DSD. "Wide-DSD" is 8bit @ 2.8mHz. Lee and I have disagreed on whether this is PCM or not ;) 32bit/352K is used in (I think) the Pyramix solution. 32bit/352K is PCM. Regards,

Sorry for my absence, the past few days -- life has been busy. Lee, I said my example was a simplification to illustrate a point, and I'm sorry you took in a manner that wasn't intended. The point being illustrated is that there are two divergent values at a given point in time, but...

Lee, With respect to:

Jaleel, Lee and I do have spirited debate, but here's one thing that I don't think you're interpreting correctly.

Lee, Yesterday, I said this:

Lee, It means that it takes DSD input and has DSD output. That doesn't say anything about the data within the chip. Sony's mixing station takes DSD in and out, and does the conversion internally. Custom Silicon is ruthlessly efficient at these types of tasks. Regards,

Lee, Let's go back and look at Ian's words, shall we?

Lee, The broader discussion was the "pure DSD" marketing hype, which is where wide-DSD (and the Philips alternative) came into play. Ian's contention is that as soon as we start talking about any signal processing at all, mixing, eq, even derivation of a .1 for a multi-channel mix, then you...

Lee, Earlier in the discussion when I brought up Bob Stuart's paper on the characteristics required for high quality audio, you called that a biased source of information. Now, you're claiming that info from Sony (that will be SACD slanted) is not. Both of these are technical issues. Do...

Lee, Regardless of how it's marketed, 8-bit depth is PCM. You can encode 256 discrete values for the delta of the waveform @ any point in time. You can also manipulate the data with additions/subtractions etc etc etc, which is the real reason that Wide-DSD is in use. Neither Dr. Demery or...

Lee, Ian points to the entire signal chain as not maintaining "pure DSD" as Sony has marketed it. In other words, not maintaining DSD from A/D input at the front end to D/A output at the back end. Sony's solution is Wide DSD, 8-bit @ 2.8mHz. 8-bit means PCM, period. Philips' solution...

Lee, Methinks you need to understand what Ian is talking about..... The question at hand is either this: Do Sony players perform a DSD-> PCM step when applying Time Alignment and Bass Management, then perform a PCM -> DSD conversion for D/A output as analog. I haven't gotten an answer...

Keith, When Ian says "effects processing" I believe he is mentioning this in a recording studio context. Philips' upcoming multi-channel SACD players will do an on the fly DSD-> PCM conversion for Bass Management and Time Alignment, then a PCM -> DSD conversion followed by a DSD D/A...

Philip, In college for a couple of years, among other things I was spinning records at the radio station. I agree some compression is required, but check out the Top40 stations and measure the non-existent dynamic range (+/- 1dB). Listen to the fadeout that's as loud as the last chorus...

Lee, It could be that people are getting tired of hearing the same playlist repeated every two hours as well ;) As much as we don't want to admit it, the average person doesn't give a whit about playback quality. Sad, but true. The major labels' high volume outputs are compressed to within...

Lee, The goal of mass market labels is to sell lots of records. All of the items you mentioned are great, and really could lead to better sounding "commercial recordings". In the end, it doesn't further the goal of selling lots of records. Then again, some of the artists that sell lots...

Lee, I suppose none of that SACD stuff you cut and pasted directly from Sony's SACD glossies has bias? :rolleyes: I posted the source and the link. Everyone is free to read the paper for themselves and come to whatever conclusion they'd like. Since the discussion deals (among other things)...

Keith, Well there was the work of the Acoustic Renaissance for Audio group, which defined minimums based on demonstrated human perceptual capabilities. This was discussed in AES preprint #4639. But it was written by J. Robert Stuart, aka Bob Stuart and he doesn't know anything about audio...

Lee,

Mike, That's ok, neither do we :D Regards,

Lee, You said requantization is an issue, it is not. Filtering is not the problem it once was, and the pre/post ringing examples demonstrate this. I'll show you the exact pages that demonstrate SACDs inability to deliver the claimed 120dB dynamic range: Pioneer DV-AX10 Measurements -100dB...

Coltrane's "Blue Train" has been out as a DAD for a while from Classic Records. Regards,

Lee, You are reading into my post something that is neither stated nor implied..... Here's what I said verbatim:

Lee, Should I quote your quote, or just summarize? I think I'll summarize.... PCM filtering vs DSD filtering, redithering vs. noise shaping: PCM standards have evolved to 96k and some 192k sampling. As such, the filtering is not nearly as drastic. It is not the brickwall that was the...

Lee, All of the modern A/D and D/A convertors are using delta-sigma internally, with internal rates up to about 16fs (multi-bit), so you tell me, is that still bringing Zero crossing distortion into play? Searches for for "zero crossing distortion" and PCM come up with precious little...

Lee, They will do so by trading off top end bandwidth. This paper was just released at the May AES, I suspect that V&L will talk about this in one of the next two conventions. It's a constant back and forth between the two groups of individuals. Each Time the DSD camp has a...

Lee, Contrary to popular belief, I do have a social life from time to time ;) I'll even be gone for a long weekend for the 4th of July... You said this about my understanding of DSD:

Lee said this:

Lee, Here's what I said: