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Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? Blu-ray Review (Twilight Time)
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Bryan^H

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Nice review Josh.

I'm glad you didn't pick it apart because of the color timing. I was shocked that I didn't find the picture unnatural looking as I am usually very sensitive to such a thing. Is it a little too blue in some places, sure. But I found the video quality to be very impressive throughout.
 

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It's actually not too blue. It's actually pretty terrific. The proof, as Josh rightly points out, is always in the other colors in any given sequence. Tashlin loved bold colors which is why the film is littered with them - and if the blue seems too much all one has to do is look at the reds, golds, greens, and browns, where you will see not a HINT of blue, just perfect colors. I have the UK Blu, which is brownish and has none of the pop of the TT. And the pop is pure Tashlin. There's a scene where all the shots of Mansfield are against a yellowish/gold wall - perfect color, not a trace of blue anywhere. The reverses on Tony Randall are against a bluish wall. Again, perfect color. It's very, very good, transfer-wise and the film is a joy from start to finish.
 

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Another great review, Josh! You really make me want to get this, sooner rather than later...even with loads of choice and highly desired films debuting on Blu in just the next few months, I might go broke getting them all. Your review has me reliving, in the pale gleams of my mind's eye, the many delights of 'Rock Hunter', and wanting to see them again in the splendor of this new TT release!
 
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Only the title and the character Jayne Mansfield played were carried over from the Broadway play . Rock Hunter did not appear in the play. The play's title was going to be "Will Success Spoil Rock Hudson" but his manager threatened to sue. The movie plot was completely new.
 

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Only the title and the character Jayne Mansfield played were carried over from the Broadway play . Rock Hunter did not appear in the play. The play's title was going to be "Will Success Spoil Rock Hudson" but his manager threatened to sue. The movie plot was completely new.
Ah! I didn't know that. Thank you.
 

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It's actually not too blue. It's actually pretty terrific. The proof, as Josh rightly points out, is always in the other colors in any given sequence. Tashlin loved bold colors which is why the film is littered with them - and if the blue seems too much all one has to do is look at the reds, golds, greens, and browns, where you will see not a HINT of blue, just perfect colors. I have the UK Blu, which is brownish and has none of the pop of the TT. And the pop is pure Tashlin. There's a scene where all the shots of Mansfield are against a yellowish/gold wall - perfect color, not a trace of blue anywhere. The reverses on Tony Randall are against a bluish wall. Again, perfect color. It's very, very good, transfer-wise and the film is a joy from start to finish.
Hi, Bruce. (Friendly handshake here).

I completely disagree with you regarding the color scheme of this release. It looks unlike any theatrical print I've ever seen of any movie, due to the blue lean that Fox Home Entertainment colorists are so damn in love with, which just makes the image look completely unnatural, causing flesh tones to look very brown and pasty and, to my eyes, very close to unwatchable. What should be white shirts are rendered bluish (1:17:15). Not acceptable.

I can hear you chuckling and throwing your hands into the air...you are, aren't you? Already preparing a retort, right?

But here's the thing, and why we're both off the hook here: We do not all share the same eyes. Some of us are somewhat colorblind, or at least have eyesight skewed toward particular color values. We may not even know it. What seems perfectly natural to us is deemed horribly distorted by others. Now, I can't say whether it's me or it's you who is incorrect when the matter of finding these Fox titles (also including THE KING AND I, CAROUSEL, DESK SET, etc.) inappropriately blue is in question, and maybe neither of us is because of our unique vision. But I have my display set at color and tint levels that work perfectly for 95% of the Blu-rays I watch, and most of the five remaining percent are Fox titles. Isn't that a pretty accurate guide? I am unable to adjust the color/tint on my display to make these Blu-rays look even close to reasonably accurate.

Anyway, forums like this are designed for such such discussions/disagreements/friendly arguments, so I do not feel a need to extend any olive branches, but I do respect your POV...in this case, I happen to disagree with it entirely.

;)
 

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If Fox is so wrong with this color scheme then how come they haven't made any corrections to their most recent transfers that keep coming out consistent with what they have been releasing for several years now? Perhaps their film documentation on these film elements support what they're doing and not what we think the color should look like based on previous video releases or showings of prints that may have been inaccurate. I'm just saying.
 

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If Fox is so wrong with this color scheme then how come they haven't made any corrections to their most recent transfers that keep coming out consistent with what they have been releasing for several years now? Perhaps their film documentation on these film elements support what they're doing and not what we think the color should look like based on previous video releases or showings of prints that may have been inaccurate. I'm just saying.
I appreciate that this is a divisive issue. It keeps coming up, and I keep adding my two cents. Frankly, I do not think Fox believes it is wrong about this blue lean. But if they had a different colorist, I suspect the results would be wildly different -- maybe truer to the intended look, but also maybe improperly skewed in an entirely different direction. Makes me want to work for the company! Just saying back. :)
 
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Robert Crawford

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I appreciate that this is a divisive issue. It keeps coming up, and I keep adding my two cents. Frankly, I do not think Fox believes it are wrong about this blue lean. But if they had a different colorist, I suspect the results would be wildly different -- maybe truer to the intended look, but also maybe improperly skewed in an entirely different direction. Makes me want to work for the company! Just saying back. :)
It's not a divisive issue for me. How do you know different colorists aren't involved? We don't know what their film element documentation is noting regarding color scheme? We don't even know whether our previous viewings of these movies were accurate color-wise or not?
 

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If Fox is so wrong with this color scheme then how come they haven't made any corrections to their most recent transfers that keep coming out consistent with what they have been releasing for several years now?
Obviously the people in charge of this stuff at Fox thinks everything is okay with these transfers, & love the new Fox "look". All strength to the few brave people here who put their head above the parapet & risk ridicule in saying that the king is in fact, in the all together :)
 

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Just to be clear - only the BLUE shirts are blue. I keep saying the obvious, as Josh does in his review: Look at the other colors in any scene you think "leans blue" - they are perfect (as are the skin tones). Tony Randall's shirt is blue, not white - other shirts in the same scenes are WHITE. Do you think they colored in only Tony's shirt? And if you're seeing blue shirts on every person in a scene then yes something is either wrong with your eyes or your television. There are blue gels on lighting instruments - this is very clear because if you watch people's hair as they move about a scene, when they're standing under the gels their hair reflects that, and when they're not, it doesn't. Watch the scene I suggested, where Mansfield is agains an orange/yellow wall - no blue in her shots, not one IOTA of blue. In the reverses on Randall, there is blue, because that's the way that shot is lit. How do you account for zero blue in the Mansfield shots. How do you account for zero blue when Deborah Kerr first meets the King in his YELLOW chambers? You say it doesn't look like any theatrical print you've ever seen. How long have you been going to the movies? I've been going since around 1952 and I know what carbon arc projection looked and looks like, I know how prints were timed for that light source, I know what Technicolor prints looked like (I had one in 16mm for this film) and Eastman, too. And when you see a vintage color print that was timed for carbon arc but shown with today's light source (or any era post the change from carbon arc) of course it doesn't look right.

I also know that no one is going to change anyone's opinion on this. I think Fox is doing an absolutely perfect job for the most part. And I'm sure they see the complainers' posts and I thank them for doing their job and not bowing to the handful of complaints, as Kino did with The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, with the result being they came out with The Ugly and all the complainers hated THAT, too. In other words, it's a no-win situation with certain films from certain studios and all they can do at Fox is use their notes and do their wonderful work and just know that the same twenty people are always going to trot out the "blue lean" or "TEAL" comments.
 

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It's not a divisive issue for me. How do you know different colorists aren't involved? We don't know what their film element documentation is noting regarding color scheme? We don't even know whether our previous viewings of these movies were accurate color-wise or not?
All true, Robert, all true. I am simply rather profoundly annoyed that a movie I have always really liked such as this one has been rendered in such a crap fashion. There have been many here who have groaned about the Blu lean in the British HORROR OF DRACULA release. But that is simply peanuts compared to the transgression Fox perpetrated on WSSRH and others of their Blu-rays. Again, though, it's all subjective.
 
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Obviously the people in charge of this stuff at Fox thinks everything is okay with these transfers, & love the new Fox "look". All strength to the few brave people here who put their head above the parapet & risk ridicule in saying that the king is in fact, in the all together :)
I don't mind risking ridicule (Hell, I'm almost 70)...there have certainly been enough instances when I have deserved it due to my not researching properly or simply making unsupportable suppositions. But this blue thing I have with Fox is ongoing and I don't think I'm completely off base. I want so much to like their transfers, as they are releasing many of my favorite classics on Blu-ray, but it just seems weird to me that more people aren't finding these releases unpleasant to look at. Truly, it makes me question my own eyesight, but as I indicated above, nearly all the films I run on my display look fabulous without having to adjust anything. These specific (and not all) Fox titles simply look like shit to me.
 
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Dick

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Original color timing notes?

LOL

These are being done in New York by a guy that is VERY fond of that teal look. A number of his timings have been rejected, but not all.
Thanks.
 

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Original color timing notes?

LOL

These are being done in New York by a guy that is VERY fond of that teal look. A number of his timings have been rejected, but not all.
Well, since there is no teal in this transfer, I'd need you to illuminate all of us a little more. LOL. Let's hear all about it, Bob. Let's hear the rejected titles (and rejected by whom) and why some aren't rejected. I'm sure everyone in this thread will look forward to hearing all about this major news.

I want to be very clear here: You are saying Fox and Mr. Belston farm their transfers out to some guy in NY who likes "teal" and that Mr. Belston has nothing to do with these transfers at all, takes no responsibility for what they look like when they come back to him? Is that what you are saying? Because frankly I'd be happy to forward all of this to Mr. Belston and see what he has to say.
 

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Now, Bruce, you know better than that. I'm not publicly mentioning any titles.

Several years ago, I did see a 35mm answer print of one major Fox title that was restored from the 35mm camera negative and it looked beautiful. Then I saw the digital master from that same 4K preservation scan and it was a teal disaster. YIKES!
 
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Bryan^H

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Just to be clear - only the BLUE shirts are blue. I keep saying the obvious, as Josh does in his review: Look at the other colors in any scene you think "leans blue" - they are perfect (as are the skin tones). Tony Randall's shirt is blue, not white - other shirts in the same scenes are WHITE. Do you think they colored in only Tony's shirt? And if you're seeing blue shirts on every person in a scene then yes something is either wrong with your eyes or your television. There are blue gels on lighting instruments - this is very clear because if you watch people's hair as they move about a scene, when they're standing under the gels their hair reflects that, and when they're not, it doesn't. Watch the scene I suggested, where Mansfield is agains an orange/yellow wall - no blue in her shots, not one IOTA of blue. In the reverses on Randall, there is blue, because that's the way that shot is lit. How do you account for zero blue in the Mansfield shots. How do you account for zero blue when Deborah Kerr first meets the King in his YELLOW chambers? You say it doesn't look like any theatrical print you've ever seen. How long have you been going to the movies? I've been going since around 1952 and I know what carbon arc projection looked and looks like, I know how prints were timed for that light source, I know what Technicolor prints looked like (I had one in 16mm for this film) and Eastman, too. And when you see a vintage color print that was timed for carbon arc but shown with today's light source (or any era post the change from carbon arc) of course it doesn't look right.

I also know that no one is going to change anyone's opinion on this. I think Fox is doing an absolutely perfect job for the most part. And I'm sure they see the complainers' posts and I thank them for doing their job and not bowing to the handful of complaints, as Kino did with The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, with the result being they came out with The Ugly and all the complainers hated THAT, too. In other words, it's a no-win situation with certain films from certain studios and all they can do at Fox is use their notes and do their wonderful work and just know that the same twenty people are always going to trot out the "blue lean" or "TEAL" comments.
Oh come on now. I think this transfer is great, but even I noticed a blue tinge throughout the film, and yes I took into account the ambient light for some scenes.
 
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