The Hallelujah Trail coming from Olive Films on 2/27

This is great news 3 Stars

This is great news but Kino and TT repeatedly reported that this film like the Alamo is in need of a major restoration which we know wasn’t done so we should have very low expectations for this. It will probably look along the lines of The Pride and The Prejudice. But its probably the best we will ever get so I’m in. I have given up on a restoration of the Roadshow Alamo and just hope someone will give us the Roadshow version of the Alamo in existing form.. An HD upconvert with some color correction to Blu Ray will still be a big step-up from my Laserdisc. The Alamo is one film that after watching the roadshow version I can’t watch the shortened theatrical version anymore. 37 minutes cut. Just so much continuity to the film and the historical details is missing. Plus the wonderful Birthday party scene.

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  1. This is great news but Kino and TT repeatedly reported that this film like the Alamo is in need of a major restoration which we know wasn't done so we should have very low expectations for this. It will probably look along the lines of The Pride and The Prejudice. But its probably the best we will ever get so I'm in. I have given up on a restoration of the Roadshow Alamo and just hope someone will give us the Roadshow version of the Alamo in existing form.. An HD upconvert with some color correction to Blu Ray will still be a big step-up from my Laserdisc. The Alamo is one film that after watching the roadshow version I can't watch the shortened theatrical version anymore. 37 minutes cut. Just so much continuity to the film and the historical details is missing. Plus the wonderful Birthday party scene.

  2. Saw THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL as a teenager at the Warner Cinerama (I believe) on Broadway, and, although I loved about almost any movie I got to see back then, especially on a massive screen in NYC, I was bored to tears by this. The last "comedy" I had seen in a curved screen was IT'S A MAD, MAD, MAD, MAD WORLD which had me in stitches beginning to end. This movie left me feeling exhausted and unentertained. A waste of two and a half hours. I'm glad this is being released on Blu-ray because the film definitely has its champions, but I am not among them, in spite of the cast and the music score.

  3. RolandL

    That's interesting. Probably same transfer as the old DVD? Would be cool if it's the full 2.76:1 AR and 5.1 sound from original 6-tracks but I doubt it.

    My guess is its probably a new 2k scan of the existing master. Since the DVD was non-anamorphic it should definitely be a step up from the that. Probably not 2.76 and 5.1 sound.

  4. Randy Korstick

    Yeah because of the cast, music and an epic comedy western I give this movie a pass but it should have been much better but it is the only epic comedy western we have.

    Candygram for …[​IMG]

    Define epic …
    [​IMG] 😉

  5. Randy Korstick

    Yeah because of the cast, music and an epic comedy western I give this movie a pass but it should have been much better but it is the only epic comedy western we have.

    I'd go with Little Big Man as an epic comedy western CLASSIC that still works today. (And no, Blazing Saddles is not epic, but is a comedy). We're talking scale, ambition, length, reach here.

  6. The fact that it will be anamorphic already makes it an improvement on what we have. I just hope Olive gives us the Roadhsow version with overture, intermission and entr'acte which I assume is not a given. I'm not holding my breath for a pristine transfer and I'm already bracing myself for the complaining by the usual suspects (no names :)) but personally, I found the Pride And The Passion transfer acceptable. Not reference quality but acceptable.

  7. The DVD has been sitting on my shelf for a long time unopened. I, too, saw it as a teen in its original release in the 1960s and was underwhelmed though I liked the cast very much. I might need to open it some time this week and watch it again to see if I would have any interest in the Blu-ray version.

  8. There is one thing that concerns me with the 5.1 track on "THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL".
    Back when the laserdisc was produced, the 4-track composite stereo master of reel one was missing, only the mono was available. So to overcome this problem, the stereo track of the main title from the album master was used. The album unfortunately was not the original tracks but a re-recording!
    The remainder of the reel was stereo enhanced. The overture I believe was unaffected as it probably came from the stereo m&e track.
    Recently some stereo material of reel one was discovered. I only hope MGM updated their stereo master with this material.
    The difference in quality and performance of the main title between the original, as recorded on Goldwyn's scoring stage seven, and the re-recording is considerable.

  9. Randy Korstick

    Not sure what reviews you are referring to but I still have the MGM DVD and its 2.35:1 non-anamorphic and Dolby Digital 2.0 Stereo. Amazon confirms this as well.

    I'm pretty certain the dvd was 5.1

  10. Dick

    Saw THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL as a teenager at the Warner Cinerama (I believe) on Broadway, and, although I loved about almost any movie I got to see back then, especially on a massive screen in NYC, I was bored to tears by this. The last "comedy" I had seen in a curved screen was IT'S A MAD, MAD, MAD, MAD WORLD which had me in stitches beginning to end. This movie left me feeling exhausted and unentertained. A waste of two and a half hours. I'm glad this is being released on Blu-ray because the film definitely has its champions, but I am not among them, in spite of the cast and the music score.

    HALLELUJAH TRAIL was a great film. (and I am not a western fan). The Warner in NYC did indeed have a great and massive sized screen..I saw GRAND PRIX there. IT'S A MAD,MAD,MAD,MAD WORLD was virtually devoid of any comedy. A great cast of comedians that were not given the material to work with. Both H.T .and IAMMMMW screened in Cinerama where I worked. Both were very successful. Did you know that IAMMMMW was not even listed in the top 50 comedy films ever made? (U.K site)

  11. Randy Korstick

    This is great news but Kino and TT repeatedly reported that this film like the Alamo is in need of a major restoration which we know wasn't done so we should have very low expectations for this. It will probably look along the lines of The Pride and The Prejudice. But its probably the best we will ever get so I'm in. I have given up on a restoration of the Roadshow Alamo and just hope someone will give us the Roadshow version of the Alamo in existing form.. An HD upconvert with some color correction to Blu Ray will still be a big step-up from my Laserdisc. The Alamo is one film that after watching the roadshow version I can't watch the shortened theatrical version anymore. 37 minutes cut. Just so much continuity to the film and the historical details is missing. Plus the wonderful Birthday party scene.

    I agree with you in that cutting 37 minutes out of the film ruined it. I saw it originally in 70mm upon its original roadshow release.I do have a poor quality dvd of the Roadshow version..You can forget about the missing historical details being removed as much of the film was based on fiction. The film did have it's strong points- unforgettable music and a very moving finale. It was a pity that the acting was not so good and the story didn't stick to the facts.

  12. Wow, talk about surprises!

    I take it that this might look as bad as The Greatest Story Ever Told but seeing that Olive is releasing it i hope that they got something better from MGM. Even a quick and cheap 2k scan like the one that MGM ordered for Khartoum can lead to decent results so there is a good chance we will at least get The Hallelujah Trail in the ultrawide format.

  13. cinemiracle

    Did you know that IAMMMMW was not even listed in the top 50 comedy films ever made? (U.K site)

    Was HALLELUJAH TRAIL?

    Anyway, opposite opinions are what I enjoy about this forum.

  14. Dick

    Saw THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL as a teenager at the Warner Cinerama (I believe) on Broadway, and, although I loved about almost any movie I got to see back then, especially on a massive screen in NYC, I was bored to tears by this. The last "comedy" I had seen in a curved screen was IT'S A MAD, MAD, MAD, MAD WORLD which had me in stitches beginning to end. This movie left me feeling exhausted and unentertained. A waste of two and a half hours. I'm glad this is being released on Blu-ray because the film definitely has its champions, but I am not among them, in spite of the cast and the music score.

    The Hallelujah Trail played in NYC Roadshow at the Loews Cinerama(Capitol). I believe that the Cinerama's screen was much larger there than at the Warner…and that one was quite large.

  15. It’s A Mad Mad Mad Mad World is hilarious and everyone I’ve showed it to agrees. However, Hallelujah Trail does not have that same love since there is not a good Blu or even a good DVD to show, hopefully that will be rectified.

  16. Rick Thompson

    And, of course, if you did a western back then, you had to have Elmer Bernstein do the music! Maybe it was required (Dimitri Tiomkin was acceptable). 😉

    Alas, if you're making a western today, you have no such choice 🙁

  17. Paul Rossen

    The Hallelujah Trail played in NYC Roadshow at the Loews Cinerama(Capitol). I believe that the Cinerama's screen was much larger there than at the Warner…and that one was quite large.

    90 by 33 – Loew's Cinerama
    81 by 30 – Warner Cinerama

    [​IMG]

  18. Paul Rossen

    The Hallelujah Trail played in NYC Roadshow at the Loews Cinerama(Capitol). I believe that the Cinerama's screen was much larger there than at the Warner…and that one was quite large.

    I saw HT at the Warner Cinerama on Hollywood Blvd in Hollywood. Don't know how to compare the size of the screen though. I remember the film as big, but long, and not particularly funny. But, what a cast!

  19. B-ROLL

    That's what the back disc cover says ..
    [​IMG]

    AND EVERY ONE OF THESE COVER SPECS ARE ALWAYS ACCURATE …* 😉

    *Accept when they're not ….

    The UK DVD release was |I believe a different release print which was very nice viewing and had English sub-titles which the Region 1 omitted…

  20. B-ROLL

    That's what the back disc cover says ..
    [​IMG]

    AND EVERY ONE OF THESE COVER SPECS ARE ALWAYS ACCURATE …* 😉

    *Accept when they're not ….

    Yes the fact that the surround channels are non-existent on this except for the music soundtrack smells of 2.0 fake upconvert to 5.1 which was common on older movies released to DVD in their 1st decade as 5.1 was a big selling point. Which is one of the reasons many Kino and TT Blus contain 2.0 tracks because they are going back to the original sound that the studio is providing before it was altered for DVD.
    I still expect this Olive Blu Ray to be 2.35 widescreen and DTS-HD 2.0 stereo.

  21. Randy Korstick

    I still expect this Olive Blu Ray to be 2.35 widescreen and DTS-HD 2.0 stereo.

    I have seen what TCM HD airs and that is 2.35:1 but it also looks more or less like a DVD and too bad to be released on Blu-ray.

    So I would expect this to be from work that has been done more recently and due to that I would expect to see the full 2.76:1 aspect ratio of an anamorphic 65mm production.

    Maybe somebody should ask Olive about it so I just did that 🙂

  22. OliverK

    I have seen what TCM HD airs and that is 2.35:1 but it also looks more or less like a DVD.

    So I would expect this to be from work that has been done more recently and due to that I would expect to see the full 2.76:1 aspect ratio of an anamorphic 65mm production.

    I guess somebody should ask Olive about it 🙂

    Yes the fact that TCM's HD master is 2.35 is also why I believe it will be 2.35.1. As Olive will more than likely be releasing the same transfer as this just appeared on TCM 4 years ago and I doubt another master has been made already for this now obscure film.

  23. Stephen PI

    There is one thing that concerns me with the 5.1 track on "THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL".
    Back when the laserdisc was produced, the 4-track composite stereo master of reel one was missing, only the mono was available. So to overcome this problem, the stereo track of the main title from the album master was used. The album unfortunately was not the original tracks but a re-recording!
    The remainder of the reel was stereo enhanced. The overture I believe was unaffected as it probably came from the stereo m&e track.
    Recently some stereo material of reel one was discovered. I only hope MGM updated their stereo master with this material.
    The difference in quality and performance of the main title between the original, as recorded on Goldwyn's scoring stage seven, and the re-recording is considerable.

    I neglected to mention that the foreign language mixes are unaffected by this issue. Unfortunately the chorus is in a foreign language on the main title and as it is married to the orchestra it cannot be used for the english.

  24. I watched the DVD this afternoon. My overall impression as a teenager was still viable for me: ponderous, only sporadically funny. Great music, wonderful cinematography, and everyone's trying so hard to make it work, but it mostly falls flat.

    And the DVD was in visually rough shape to put it mildly. Quite dirty and not the Ultra Panavision aspect ratio. Non-anamorphic, of course, so video artifacts are constant. But the 5.1 sound was better than I was expecting, and the disc did have the overture, intermission, and exit music intact.

  25. On the question of epic comedy westerns, one might argue that THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY fits the bill, since there's abundant humor in it. In addition to Tuco's one-liners, there are those great bits where the sheriff is reading off a list of Tuco's diverse crimes before they proceed to (attempt to) hang him. It certainly has way more laughs than THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL.

    "When you have to shoot, shoot–don't talk."
    [​IMG]

  26. RolandL

    What has Olive done with other film titles? Not much improvement over previously released DVD's? I also emailed Olive and no response yet.

    Well, to be fair, Olive has done some spiffy remastered transfers after problematic older transfers like High Noon, Johnny Guitar and The Quiet Man. And their Strategic Air Command is gorgeous. Like everyone else, I'm not expecting much but there's a glimmer that they might be able to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. We shall see….. 🙁

  27. OliverK

    I have seen what TCM HD airs and that is 2.35:1 but it also looks more or less like a DVD and too bad to be released on Blu-ray.

    So I would expect this to be from work that has been done more recently and due to that I would expect to see the full 2.76:1 aspect ratio of an anamorphic 65mm production.

    Maybe somebody should ask Olive about it so I just did that 🙂

    Good luck …
    it's not even announced on their site …https://olivefilms.com

    Yes the fact that the surround channels are non-existent on this except for the music soundtrack smells of 2.0 fake upconvert to 5.1 which was common on older movies released to DVD in their 1st decade as 5.1 was a big selling point. Which is one of the reasons many Kino and TT Blus contain 2.0 tracks because they are going back to the original sound that the studio is providing before it was altered for DVD.
    I still expect this Olive Blu Ray to be 2.35 widescreen and DTS-HD 2.0 stereo.

    Hence my somewhat sarcastic admonishment regarding the accuracy of the specs… It was clearly a "5.1" re-mix with music out the backs …and as I recall hole-in-the middle stereo in the fronts

    From what I understand (from various sources) is that the multi-channel master tapes (if they existed) for a number of films were re-purposed or junked. The only hope for them continuing to exist being if someone rescued them from the dumpster …

  28. B-ROLL

    Good luck …
    it's not even announced on their site …https://olivefilms.com

    Hence my somewhat sarcastic admonishment regarding the accuracy of the specs… It was clearly a "5.1" re-mix with music out the backs …and as I recall hole-in-the middle stereo in the fronts

    From what I understand (from various sources) is that the multi-channel master tapes (if they existed) for a number of films were re-purposed or junked. The only hope for them continuing to exist being if someone rescued them from the dumpster …

    Their site only shows January not February releases. Best Buy and Amazon show it as a 2/27 release.

  29. Thomas T

    Well, to be fair, Olive has done some spiffy remastered transfers after problematic older transfers like High Noon, Johnny Guitar and The Quiet Man. And their Strategic Air Command is gorgeous. Like everyone else, I'm not expecting much but there's a glimmer that they might be able to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. We shall see….. 🙁

    None of those are MGM/UA titles.

  30. RolandL

    Old post in 2011 from Robert Harris:

    "I see no reason why The Hallelujah Trail would need any sort of restorative efforts. The OCN should be fine."

    Fine in this case normally means acceptable which is how it looks on the recent TCM HD version. So expect an ok HD 2.35:1 transfer with limited stereo tracks and accept that it will probably be the best the film will ever look for home video. That's what I'm doing to expect more is setting yourself up for a disappointment. Its well documented that MGM has not taken great care of their back catalog.

  31. Randy Korstick

    Fine in this case normally means acceptable which is how it looks on the recent TCM HD version. So expect an ok HD 2.35:1 transfer with limited stereo tracks and accept that it will probably be the best the film will ever look for home video. That's what I'm doing to expect more is setting yourself up for a disappointment. Its well documented that MGM has not taken great care of their back catalog.

    Yes, The Greatest Story Ever Told is 2.76 on Blu-ray but the image is soft. It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World does look very good though. 2.35 would be OK as your only missing 15% of 2.76 (unless it was zoomed in) but, I would prefer 2.76.

  32. RolandL

    All the reviews say the DVD is anamorphic and 5.1.

    Roland: are you a Cinerama buff? If so, have you heard of any attempts to restore "Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm?" I have all of David Strohmaier's restorations on BD and they all look fabulous and I've been hoping that he might tackle "Grimm." Rumor has it that there is one remaining film print of this movie, but supposedly the negatives were either lost or destroyed. Any comments? Thanks!

  33. William Moore

    Roland: are you a Cinerama buff? If so, have you heard of any attempts to restore "Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm?" I have all of David Strohmaier's restorations on BD and they all look fabulous and I've been hoping that he might tackle "Grimm." Rumor has it that there is one remaining film print of this movie, but supposedly the negatives were either lost or destroyed. Any comments? Thanks!

    Yes, check out the link to my Cinerama web site below my signature.

    No attempts yet. Very expensive to restore as Warner likes to do the restoring themselves. Negatives are still there but need a lot of work. There is also an Ultra Panavision print of it (converted from the the 3-panels) but, I don't know what condition it's in. There was a 3-panel print of it shown at the 60th Anniversary of Cinerama at the Cinerama Dome. I think it came from a private collector from Australia.

  34. Randy Korstick

    Fine in this case normally means acceptable which is how it looks on the recent TCM HD version.

    When he says that the OCN is fine then this is no comment on the look of any HD version of the movie that was shown on TV. That being said I have seen the TCM version and it looked really soft.

    Randy Korstick

    So expect an ok HD 2.35:1 transfer with limited stereo tracks and accept that it will probably be the best the film will ever look for home video. That's what I'm doing to expect more is setting yourself up for a disappointment. Its well documented that MGM has not taken great care of their back catalog.

    It is of course only an educated guess but I very much doubt that Olive will damage their reputation by relasing something similar in quality to those TCM airings which is why I expect better.

  35. OliverK

    It is of course only an educated guess but I very much doubt that Olive will damage their reputation by relasing something similar in quality to those TCM airings which is why I expect better.

    Have you not followed all the severe criticism heaped on Olive for some of their past transfers?:eek:

  36. Mark-P

    Have you not followed all the severe criticism heaped on Olive for some of their past transfers?:eek:

    Yes I have but at least recently none of them looked as bad as what I have seen so far from The Hallelujah Trail.
    So to me it makes no sense that they would release a movie which has the main appeal of having been shot large format in much worse quality than what they have recently been criticized for with movies that were only shot in standard 35mm.

    So I remain cautiously optimistic that we may be getting a qulity that is more similar to the Blu-ray version of Khartoum than what we have for Fall of the Roman Empire.

  37. RolandL

    Yes, check out the link to my Cinerama web site below my signature.

    No attempts yet. Very expensive to restore as Warner likes to do the restoring themselves. Negatives are still there but need a lot of work. There is also an Ultra Panavision print of it (converted from the the 3-panels) but, I don't know what condition it's in. There was a 3-panel print of it shown at the 60th Anniversary of Cinerama at the Cinerama Dome. I think it came from a private collector from Australia.

    I did not know they made a UP70 print thanks for the info.

  38. DP 70

    I did not know they made a UP70 print of TWWOTBG thanks for the info Roland.

    I wouldn't expect this to look even decent. I once saw this kind of 3-panel to 70mm print of HTWWW and unfortunately it was the worst 70mm print I ever saw.

  39. OliverK

    Yes I have but at least recently none of them looked as bad as what I have seen so far from The Hallelujah Trail.
    So to me it makes no sense that they would release a movie which has the main appeal of having been shot large format in much worse quality than what they have recently been criticized for with movies that were only shot in standard 35mm.

    So I remain cautiously optimistic that we may be getting a qulity that is more similar to the Blu-ray version of Khartoum than what we have for Fall of the Roman Empire.

    All of those recent Olive releases that were better were not MGM titles. Olive can only release what MGM gives them. Its always great to hope for the best but we have to be realistic too. Since MGM just made the HD master that TCM showed 3-4 years ago why would they make another master already for an obscure, mostly forgotten film with little demand. Also since Twilight Time and Kino passed on this film it also tells us a lot on what to expect.

  40. Randy Korstick

    All of those recent Olive releases that were better were not MGM titles. Olive can only release what MGM gives them. Its always great to hope for the best but we have to be realistic too. Since MGM just made the HD master that TCM showed 3-4 years ago why would they make another master already for an obscure, mostly forgotten film with little demand. Also since Twilight Time and Kino passed on this film it also tells us a lot on what to expect. Just last year Olive released The Pride and the Passion and Strategic Air Command in the wrong aspect ratio so they do not have a problem with releasing films in the incorrect ratio.

    The newer MGM transfers, the ones starting with the lion's eye, are excellent. The problem is that they still recycle older transfers, so you never know what you're going to get. Also, The Pride and the Passion blu-ray is 1.78 and Strategic Air Command is 1.66. Those two films were both photographed in VistaVision, which was designed to be presented anywhere between 1.66 to 2:1, so I'm not sure how they can be cosidered wrong.

  41. Worth

    The newer MGM transfers, the ones starting with the lion's eye, are excellent. The problem is that they still recycle older transfers, so you never know what you're going to get. Also, The Pride and the Passion blu-ray is 1.78 and Strategic Air Command is 1.66. Those two films were both photographed in VistaVision, which was designed to be presented anywhere between 1.66 to 2:1, so I'm not sure how they can be cosidered wrong.

    Vistavision was designed that way as a format but that doesn't mean filmmakers using the format didn't intend a certain framing. Both of these films were widely discussed when released as being incorrect. Strategic Air Command was intended to be screened either 1.85 or 2:1.
    Pride and the Passion was intended as 2:1 and the Blu Ray is zoomed in to the right making the picture slightly out of focus.

  42. When do you think Olive will add the February release titles to their web site? I'm curious what will be on the disc. Will it be the Cinerama roadshow with overture, intermission, exit music, 2.76 AR, 5.1 sound and extras or the general release with 2.35 AR, 2.0 sound and no extras?

  43. Olive could at least answer customer E-mails regarding this release but so far it seems that none of our E-mails have been answered.

    Maybe whoever is in charge to answer customer E-Mails does not know very much about weird stuff like aspect ratios, roadshows, intermissions and all this technical stuff and therefore prefers to not answer at all…

  44. RolandL

    What DVD is he reviewing here? Everyone says the PQ on the DVD is bad but he likes it.

    Regarding the disc, it is beautifully transferred anamorphically in its original aspect ratio of 2.35:1 and retains the depth of colour present in the original print. MGM really ought to be proud of the picture quality here as it is fantastic.

    Good question since he also gets the DVD runtime wrong at 139 minutes its 165 minutes according to Amazon which is about right. It did have overture and intermission since this was the same transfer of the Laserdisc. I don't have mine in front of me. But since the review is 16 years old it was probably done by someone who didn't understand what Anamorphic meant in Home theater terms.

  45. atfree

    Pre-order is up on Amazon, no specs

    Olive's silence on specks is pretty telling that this is an HD master if the same old version as suspected. If Olive had a brand new Roadshow version in 2.76:1 they would surely want to advertise that and share that with Walmart, Best Buy and Amazon since sales for this title will be limited already.

  46. Randy Korstick

    Good question since he also gets the DVD runtime wrong at 139 minutes its 165 minutes according to Amazon which is about right. It did have overture and intermission since this was the same transfer of the Laserdisc. I don't have mine in front of me. But since the review is 16 years old it was probably done by someone who didn't understand what Anamorphic meant in Home theater terms.

    I think the DVD is 155 but with PAL speedup 139?

  47. Ok yes 159 minutes sounds right. The full roadshow is 165 minutes. Pal speedup is around 4% so that would be approx. 152 minutes. The back of the box also confirms it is not Anamorphic. So if 155 is accurate it sounds like the Olive blu dropped the Overture and Intermission that the Laserdisc and DVD had. I can't remember if the TCM HD version had those.

  48. ahollis

    I have found the Olive is pretty shut mouth on titles, specs and extras (if any) until they make a formal announcement. Which is usually the first week of the month the titles are released.

    I don't follow their release announcements much but it is not helpful to have no information about important parameters like run time and aspect ratio even though the release in question is already up for preorder.

  49. ahollis

    The music is one of the best aspects about this movie. It would be a shame to not include the overture, intermission, or exit music.

    That and the cinematography which is stunning and I am still hopeful that we will get a version that shows this to a degree.

  50. Randy Korstick

    Ok yes 159 minutes sounds right. The full roadshow is 165 minutes. Pal speedup is around 4% so that would be approx. 152 minutes.

    The German and therefor the European DVD's running time in PAL is exactly 149:07.

  51. I have a region 4 DVD from Australia, and am very happy with it. The anamorphic image (although it is in the incorrect 2.35:1 aspect ratio) is leagues ahead of the terrible letterboxed domestic release, the sound is good, and it appears to be the full roadshow version, with overture, intermission, and exit music intact. The blu-ray would need to offer something spectacular to warrant an upgrade.

  52. [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL (1965)
    Burt Lancaster (Elmer Gantry) and Lee Remick (Days of Wine and Roses) star inThe Hallelujah Trail, the widescreen comic western extravaganza directed by John Sturges (The Magnificent Seven) from a screenplay by John Gay (The Courtship of Eddie’s Father) based on the novel by Bill Gulick.

    Under the watchful eye of its owner Frank Wallingham (Brian Keith, The Parent Trap), the Wallingham Freighting Company is bound for Denver with forty wagons of whiskey to quench the town’s thirst. But there are others who have plans of their own for the load of libations including temperance leader Cora Templeton Massingale (Remick), who wants it destroyed, the Sioux Indians who want it for themselves, ditto the Denver citizens militia, as well as the Irish teamsters hired as wagon drivers. Fearing that the shipment may not reach its destination, Colonel Thaddeus Gearhart (Lancaster) assigns Captain Paul Slater (Jim Hutton; Walk, Don’t Run) to safeguard the cargo, unaware that Slater’s fiancée, Louise (Pamela Tiffin, Harper) – who also happens to be the Colonel’s daughter – has fallen under the powerful spell of Cora’s temperance message.

    Rounding out the cast in this comic free-for-all are Donald Pleasence (Halloween), Martin Landau (Ed Wood), Dub Taylor (Bonnie and Clyde), John Anderson (Ride the High Country), Tom Stern (The Spy Who Came in from the Cold) and Val Avery (Black Caesar). The Hallelujah Trailwas photographed in the Ultra Panavision 70 format by three-time Academy Award® winner Robert Surtees (King Solomon’s Mines – 1951, The Bad and the Beautiful– 1953, Ben-Hur – 1960), costumed by eight-time Academy Award® winner Edith Head (The Sting – 1974), with a rousing score by Academy Award® winner Elmer Bernstein (Best Music, Original Music Score, Thoroughly Modern Millie – 1968).

    The Hallelujah Trail is presented using the best available elements.

    LANGUAGE: ENGLISH (with optional English subtitles)
    TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 155 mins
    VIDEO: 2.35:1 Aspect Ratio; COLOR

  53. The Hallelujah Trail is presented using the best available elements.

    How sad that two 70mm Cinerama releases, this and THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD, had to have such a disclaimer on their Blu-Ray presentations. I've pre-ordered TRAIL anyway, as it couldn't be worse than the DVD.

    I know that some of the music stems for TRAIL were damaged by the 1994 Northridge earthquake. Perhaps some of the picture elements were damaged as well.

  54. RichMurphy

    The Hallelujah Trail is presented using the best available elements.

    How sad that two 70mm Cinerama releases, this and THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD, had to have such a disclaimer on their Blu-Ray presentations. I've pre-ordered TRAIL anyway, as it couldn't be worse than the DVD.

    I know that some of the music stems for TRAIL were damaged by the 1994 Northridge earthquake. Perhaps some of the picture elements were damaged as well.

    I certainly will not blind buy or preorder this. If it is really based on the same master as what was shown on TCM HD then to me it is unworthy to be released on Blu-ray and even worse than The Greatest Story Ever Told that at least is in the correct aspect ratio.

    Oh well, at least now I have no expectations for this one anymore.

  55. ahollis

    […]
    The Hallelujah Trail is presented using the best available elements.

    Translation: It looks about as bad as The Greatest Story Ever told but this time there is also about 25% of the picture missing.
    I will reserve further judgement until I see some reviews and screencaps but one has to wonder about their decision to release The Hallelujah Trail in this form – not too many will want to buy a Blu-ray of an ultrawide 65mm production that is cropped and possibly looking worse than most of Olive's releases of movies shot only on 35mm.

  56. Pictures from a restauration project from German company "TLE Films" for German television. Pictures owned by TLE Films taken from
    http://cinefacts-forum.kino.de/2245…e-mastering-restaurierung-bild-und-ton-5.html

    Material YCM copied – anamorph – 35mm Reduction Interpositive 1992.
    (Eastmancolor, 1992 PM POS von YCM)

    There is a big differnece between DVD (below) and restored TV-version (above), especially in color timing. I love the eastman color stock on this pictures and it's blowing me away compared with the washed out and muddy picture quality of the dvd.If the upcoming Blu Ray release is similar to this restored pictures i will be satisfied.

    View attachment 43930 View attachment 43931 View attachment 43933 View attachment 43934 View attachment 43935 View attachment 43936

  57. Billy Batson

    Sorry, which is what? I much prefer the bottom picture in those three caps, the top pictures look right off…those antique gold fleshtones!

    Looks like that was the version that was made for German TV from a YCM recombination to 35mm – not exactly what I would have hoped for with this movie when it comes to Blu-ray but detail seems to be at least better than for The Greatest Story Ever told and Fall of the Roman Empire.

  58. Billy Batson

    Sorry, which is what? I much prefer the bottom picture in those three caps, the top pictures look right off…those antique gold fleshtones!

    As indicated by the logo on the pictures, the top ones are the remastered versions.

  59. Douglas R

    As indicated by the logo on the pictures, the top ones are the remastered versions.

    Yeah, I know, I just found it hard to believe, not at all impressed with the YCMs, looking at the grain & the yellow faces. And why do they need to use YCMs? Is there something wrong with the negative? Or does MGM not want to go the expense of scanning the 65mm original.

  60. Douglas R

    As indicated by the logo on the pictures, the top ones are the remastered versions.

    Yeah, I know, I just found it hard to believe, not at all impressed with the YCMs, looking at the grain & the yellow faces. And why do they need to use YCMs? Is there something wrong with the negative? Or does MGM not want to go the expense of scanning the 65mm original.

  61. Douglas R

    As indicated by the logo on the pictures, the top ones are the remastered versions.

    Yeah, I know, I just found it hard to believe, not at all impressed with the YCMs, looking at the grain & the yellow faces. And why do they need to use YCMs? Is there something wrong with the negative? Or does MGM not want to go the expense of scanning the 65mm original.

  62. B-ROLL

    [​IMG] :wacko:

    Indeed, and add to that The Greatest Story Ever Told as a worthy candidate for the worst ever Blu-ray release of a 65mm production from a major studio. That is if you still want to call MGM a major studio…

  63. Unfortunately we need to come to the realization that this is the best we will ever get for this film on blu ray. Since this is a somewhat obscure movie now and not likely to be a big seller even with a brand new ultra expensive restoration. I mean The Alamo would certainly sell better and it can't seem to get any kind of blu ray release.

  64. Randy Korstick

    I mean The Alamo would certainly sell better and it can't seem to get any kind of blu ray release.

    Realistically, would it sell that much better? The Alamo has its supporters, to be sure, but is that pool larger than the one for Hallelujah Trail?

  65. Allansfirebird

    Realistically, would it sell that much better? The Alamo has its supporters, to be sure, but is that pool larger than the one for Hallelujah Trail?

    I would say the Alamo would easily double the sales: Its a well remembered film: constantly shown on TV since the 1970's. Its a John Wayne western film which sells well.
    Hallelujah Trail is rarely on TV. I had never even heard of it until it was released on Laserdisc in the early 1990's. It plays on TCM occasionally since the 1990's but I never saw this on broadcast TV in the 70's and 80's. It generally does not get that good of reviews even from Western fans. The Alamo didn't do well with critics and has its detractors but is generally well liked by western fans and John Wayne fans. I doubt that Hallelujah Trail even has a pool just western fans that may blind buy it and some that find it fairly entertaining but disappointing like me. The Alamo would make my top 25 films.

  66. I saw The Alamo in 1960 in its full TODD-AO glory. I remember liking "The Green Leaves of Summer" very much. On balance, I'll take Lee Remick over John Wayne any day. She was far more beautiful; was a far better actor on stage and screen; could sing better; could twirl a baton better; and from what I've read, was a gourmet cook and a great conversationalist.
    As for The Hallellujah Trail, well, she had expenses too.

  67. bujaki

    As for The Hallellujah Trail, well, she had expenses too.

    Like Michael Caine said about Jaws 4:
    "I have never seen it but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built and it is terrific."

    I agree with Randy that The Alamo has a bigger following from western fans, John Wayne fans and in general from people who appreciate a patriotic story even when it is not told that well, With everything else being equal I could see it sell three or more times as much as The Hallelujah Trail. I remember when HD-DVD started out it was rumored that Spartacus sold 5 times or more discs on HD-DVD than Mutiny on the Bounty with Marlon Brando. Hard to understand for us classic movie buffs as we would usually buy both movies anyway but to a wider audience obviously Spartacus was a much more interesting proposition

  68. bujaki

    I saw The Alamo in 1960 in its full TODD-AO glory. I remember liking "The Green Leaves of Summer" very much. On balance, I'll take Lee Remick over John Wayne any day. She was far more beautiful; was a far better actor on stage and screen; could sing better; could twirl a baton better; and from what I've read, was a gourmet cook and a great conversationalist.
    As for The Hallellujah Trail, well, she had expenses too.

    But she's not a legend, not an American icon. As Pauline Kael aptly put it (and I'm paraphrasing): "We keep being told Lee Remick is a star but we know she's really not." When Marilyn Monroe was fired from Something's Got To Give and replaced by Lee Remick, The leading man Dean Martin said, "Uh … no." The film was canceled. Your hormones aside :), she's just not in his league.

  69. Thomas T

    But she's not a legend, not an American icon. As Pauline Kael aptly put it (and I'm paraphrasing): "We keep being told Lee Remick is a star but we know she's really not." When Marilyn Monroe was fired from Something's Got To Give and replaced by Lee Remick, The leading man Dean Martin said, "Uh … no." The film was canceled. Your hormones aside :), she's just not in his league.

    As knowledgeable as Jose is about movies, I think he already knows the points you brought up as I took his comments as his personal preference and not the status reality between Lee Remick and John Wayne.

  70. Thomas T

    But she's not a legend, not an American icon. As Pauline Kael aptly put it (and I'm paraphrasing): "We keep being told Lee Remick is a star but we know she's really not." When Marilyn Monroe was fired from Something's Got To Give and replaced by Lee Remick, The leading man Dean Martin said, "Uh … no." The film was canceled. Your hormones aside :), she's just not in his league.

    As knowledgeable as Jose is about movies, I think he already knows the points you brought up as I took his comments as his personal preference and not the status reality between Lee Remick and John Wayne.

  71. Thomas T

    But she's not a legend, not an American icon. As Pauline Kael aptly put it (and I'm paraphrasing): "We keep being told Lee Remick is a star but we know she's really not." When Marilyn Monroe was fired from Something's Got To Give and replaced by Lee Remick, The leading man Dean Martin said, "Uh … no." The film was canceled. Your hormones aside :), she's just not in his league.

    As knowledgeable as Jose is about movies, I think he already knows the points you brought up as I took his comments as his personal preference and not the status reality between Lee Remick and John Wayne.

  72. Thomas T

    But she's not a legend, not an American icon. As Pauline Kael aptly put it (and I'm paraphrasing): "We keep being told Lee Remick is a star but we know she's really not." When Marilyn Monroe was fired from Something's Got To Give and replaced by Lee Remick, The leading man Dean Martin said, "Uh … no." The film was canceled. Your hormones aside :), she's just not in his league.

    As knowledgeable as Jose is about movies, I think he already knows the points you brought up as I took his comments as his personal preference and not the status reality between Lee Remick and John Wayne.

  73. Thomas T

    But she's not a legend, not an American icon. As Pauline Kael aptly put it (and I'm paraphrasing): "We keep being told Lee Remick is a star but we know she's really not." When Marilyn Monroe was fired from Something's Got To Give and replaced by Lee Remick, The leading man Dean Martin said, "Uh … no." The film was canceled. Your hormones aside :), she's just not in his league.

    As knowledgeable as Jose is about movies, I think he already knows the points you brought up as I took his comments as his personal preference and not the status reality between Lee Remick and John Wayne.

  74. Thomas T

    But she's not a legend, not an American icon. As Pauline Kael aptly put it (and I'm paraphrasing): "We keep being told Lee Remick is a star but we know she's really not." When Marilyn Monroe was fired from Something's Got To Give and replaced by Lee Remick, The leading man Dean Martin said, "Uh … no." The film was canceled. Your hormones aside :), she's just not in his league.

    As knowledgeable as Jose is about movies, I think he already knows the points you brought up as I took his comments as his personal preference and not the status reality between Lee Remick and John Wayne.

  75. Robert Crawford

    As knowledgeable as Jose is about movies, I think he already knows the points you brought up as I took his comments as his personal preference and not the status reality between Lee Remick and John Wayne.

    I'd much rather have had Remick over for dinner than Wayne…

  76. bujaki

    I always had that in mind but was too much of a gentleman to state it.:D

    Lee Remick was one beautiful woman and probably should have been a much bigger star than she ever became because she had beauty and some acting skills.

  77. Thomas T

    When Marilyn Monroe was fired from Something's Got To Give and replaced by Lee Remick, The leading man Dean Martin said, "Uh … no." The film was canceled.

    After she was fired they gave her a new contract to come back. But, then she(?) committed suicide.

  78. Billy Batson

    Sorry, which is what? I much prefer the bottom picture in those three caps, the top pictures look right off…those antique gold fleshtones!

    I don't think the color is totally wrong on these caps. The DVD-version represents a picture adapted to the viewing habits today. And for the dvd they used DNR to reduce the grain or something else. The restored Version from TLEFilms shows a warm colored picture in the colortiming of many films those days with a natural filmlook. I can't believe that no one here like these shots. But only TLEFilms , a film restoring company with international good reputations, can clarify this caps. And don't forget the generation of material they have got .

    They also worked on "McLintock" and the "Nobody" films without the OCN an did a very good job.
    http://www.tle-films.com/TLEFilms__FS_nav2.htm

  79. Robert Crawford

    Well, I'm not going to go overboard, but, I think her good looks overshadow her acting skills.

    You could say that about a lot of actors. The most talented actors aren't usually the best-looking actors.

  80. Randy Korstick

    While I wouldn't mind having Remick over for dinner at all I would rather have Joan O'Brien from the Alamo come over for dinner :cheers:

    Joan was very babe-ilicious. I liked her with Elvis in It Happened At The World's Fair too. Seeing that it matters here, she could also sing!

    [​IMG]
  81. Gangolf

    I don't think the color is totally wrong on these caps. The DVD-version represents a picture adapted to the viewing habits today. And for the dvd they used DNR to reduce the grain or something else. The restored Version from TLEFilms shows a warm colored picture in the colortiming of many films those days with a natural filmlook. I can't believe that no one here like these shots. But only TLEFilms , a film restoring company with international good reputations, can clarify this caps. And don't forget the generation of material they have got .

    They also worked on "McLintock" and the "Nobody" films without the OCN an did a very good job.
    http://www.tle-films.com/TLEFilms__FS_nav2.htm

    The top caps have color and it's seems faithful, if one is to believe caps in the first place. The bottom caps are milky and not faithful.

  82. Randy Korstick

    This is great news but Kino and TT repeatedly reported that this film like the Alamo is in need of a major restoration which we know wasn't done so we should have very low expectations for this. It will probably look along the lines of The Pride and The Prejudice. But its probably the best we will ever get so I'm in. I have given up on a restoration of the Roadshow Alamo and just hope someone will give us the Roadshow version of the Alamo in existing form.. An HD upconvert with some color correction to Blu Ray will still be a big step-up from my Laserdisc. The Alamo is one film that after watching the roadshow version I can't watch the shortened theatrical version anymore. 37 minutes cut. Just so much continuity to the film and the historical details is missing. Plus the wonderful Birthday party scene.

    I fully agree with your comments re the restoration of "The Alamo." This is such an underrated film.

  83. cinemiracle

    HALLELUJAH TRAIL was a great film. (and I am not a western fan). The Warner in NYC did indeed have a great and massive sized screen..I saw GRAND PRIX there. IT'S A MAD,MAD,MAD,MAD WORLD was virtually devoid of any comedy. A great cast of comedians that were not given the material to work with. Both H.T .and IAMMMMW screened in Cinerama where I worked. Both were very successful. Did you know that IAMMMMW was not even listed in the top 50 comedy films ever made? (U.K site)

    If the sound is mono, then I would urge everyone to boycott the purchase of the blu-ray from Olive films.

  84. RolandL

    That's interesting. Probably same transfer as the old DVD? Would be cool if it's the full 2.76:1 AR and 5.1 sound from original 6-tracks but I doubt it.

    I am in full agreement. "THT" must be seen in the original aspect ratio and 6-track stereo in order for it to be enjoyed as it was originally exhibited.

  85. Dale MA

    Tempted to blind buy this. Mad World is in my top five films of all time and I love westerns & madcap comedies. Do you think it's worth a chance?

    I share all your reasons and blind bought this on Laserdisc in the early 90's. I liked it but definitely disappointing. The problem with HT is it works pretty good as an epic western just not quite exciting enough but it fails as a comedy. It isn't that funny. But the music score and great cast also make it worth seeing. You will probably enjoy it if you don't expect too much

  86. I blind bought the laser disc also and found, to me, a gem I never heard of. However, most friends I showed it to were not that impressed. I’m looking forward to this release and can retire that horrible DVD.

  87. ahollis

    I blind bought the laser disc also and found, to me, a gem I never heard of. However, most friends I showed it to were not that impressed. I’m looking forward to this release and can retire that horrible DVD.

    Despite my less than enthusiastic comment above I still plan on getting this Blu Ray also. I do like the film. Just giving an honest evaluation so people don't expect too much.

  88. ahollis

    I blind bought the laser disc also and found, to me, a gem I never heard of. However, most friends I showed it to were not that impressed. I’m looking forward to this release and can retire that horrible DVD.

    This was one of my father's favorite movies, and when I saw it on network TV as a 1960s teenager I could not fathom why (though I did like everyone in the cast). I did not see it again for nearly 30 years when a friend was showing off his laserdisc player. Again, I only found it mildly amusing.

    I bought it on DVD in a bargain bin for the sake of having a "CINERAMA" FILM (note the quotation marks) in my collection, and I was appalled at the lackluster 4:3 presentation. But as I continued to watch the film grew on me. Yes, it's a comedy, but I think UA oversold that aspect of the movie. It's more bouncy, silly, and clever than it is raucous or hilarity-inducing.

    Eventually, I began to appreciate why Oracle Jones was one of my dad's favorite film characters of all time, and it was a treat to see Martin Landau's Chief Walks Stooped Over. And comparing the gentle sexiness of Lee Remick against the more overt tone seen in later films complements Lancaster's likable tough authority figure that lampooned his own parts in other movies. And the score, of course, is one of the most rousing and sweeping of all time. (In a comedy, no less!)

    Now, THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL ranks high on my repeat watchability list, but I am aching to see a decent presentation. If only Olive can deliver something that approaches that.

  89. If it looks better than the DVD, 2.0 stereo sound (that coverts to Dolby Surround) and has the overture, intermission and exit music I'll buy it. I would have preferred 2.76 AR, 5.1 from 6-track and full 165 minutes but if this is all we can get I'll take it. Being an MGM/UA title, I'm surprised it's not shown on the MGM HD channel.

    MGM HD movie titles usually look pretty good but I don't know why they only broadcast in 2.0 stereo. It does convert to Dolby Surround and sounds pretty good. When they showed the general release of The Alamo it looked better than the DVD and the dialog was highly directional.

    [​IMG]

  90. RolandL

    I called Olive Films and the sound is 2.0 stereo and has the Overture, Intermission and Exit music.

    Well at least there’s that. But still, it really irks me that so many Blu-ray releases have multichannel down-mixed to 2-channel.

  91. RolandL

    If it looks better than the DVD, 2.0 stereo sound (that coverts to Dolby Surround) and has the overture, intermission and exit music I'll buy it. I would have preferred 2.76 AR, 5.1 from 6-track and full 165 minutes but if this is all we can get I'll take it. Being an MGM/UA title, I'm surprised it's not shown on the MGM HD channel.

    MGM HD movie titles usually look pretty good but I don't know why they only broadcast in 2.0 stereo. It does convert to Dolby Surround and sounds pretty good. When they showed the general release of The Alamo it looked better than the DVD and the dialog was highly directional.

    [​IMG]

    The Alamo on MGMHD in its general release form looks and sounds good. Thus, I'm quite surprised that it hasn't been released on bluray as yet. Unless, perhaps the Criterion Collection is quietly working on a Mad World type of release including an unrestored Roadshow version.

  92. Paul Rossen

    The Alamo on MGMHD in its general release form looks and sounds good. Thus, I'm quite surprised that it hasn't been released on bluray as yet. Unless, perhaps the Criterion Collection is quietly working on a Mad World type of release including an unrestored Roadshow version.

    From what I could see what MGM has of The Alamo should look better on Blu-ray than a number of recently released titles where people were quite happy with the quality, including Solomon and Sheba and Legend of the Lost. Still it only is the general release version and much more could have been done so it is a special case.

  93. Mike Frezon

    Let's leave any discussion of The Alamo to its own thread, please…

    …and stay on topic here–The Hallelujah Trail.

    :thumbsup:

    Agreed, that's why I said it's a special case.

    I have to say that I am very happy that there is so much interest in The Hallelujah Trail until now, it seems to be more popular than I thought it would be.

  94. I fear you're right. It sounds totally plausible. I'm so sad about it. It was a little dream of me to see "Hallelujah Trail" in real UltraPanavision one day.

    But in the last 15 years we have often read this claim " from the best available elements". A few years later this was disproved by another edition from another company.

  95. Gangolf

    I fear you're right. It sounds totally plausible. I'm so sad about it. It was a little dream of me to see "Hallelujah Trail" in real UltraPanavision one day.

    But in the last 15 years we have often read this claim " from the best available elements". A few years later this was disproved by another edition from another company.

    Yes the elements that the German company "TLE Films" for German television acquired shown in post # 93 do look clearer but the color is off. It's "the best available elements" that Olive was offered.

  96. RolandL

    Yes the elements that the German company "TLE Films" for German television acquired shown in post # 93 do look clearer but the color is off. It's "the best available elements" that Olive was offered.

    Does that mean "Olive" used the TLE Master?

  97. Gangolf

    But in the last 15 years we have often read this claim " from the best available elements". A few years later this was disproved by another edition from another company.

    I think that you read a bit too much into this. Looking at this from Olive's perspective these were the best elements that were available to them as it was all that MGM had to offer.

  98. Gangolf

    Does that mean "Olive" used the TLE Master?

    I doubt that very much.
    As far as I understand it, the TLE Master is made for a TV station, probably from sources of that TV station, so that this work is exclusively for the TV station.

  99. Joe Caps

    Will this new transfer be anamorphic.
    I would also like to hear the original main title track with the full orchestra and chorus instead of the record alum track that was used.

    It’s a blu-ray in HD, the term anamorphic would be used in standard def 16×9

  100. Why do people keep asking these questions. It's 2.35, it's from 35mm and it looks mediocre, as everyone with a brain knew it would. Do people honestly think that Olive was ever going to pay to have MGM/UA do a transfer off the large format negative for a title that would never sell more than a couple of thousand?

  101. haineshisway

    Why do people keep asking these questions. It's 2.35, it's from 35mm and it looks mediocre, as everyone with a brain knew it would. Do people honestly think that Olive was ever going to pay to have MGM/UA do a transfer off the large format negative for a title that would never sell more than a couple of thousand?

    Very unreasonable to expect that MGM would do it on behalf of Olive but what got shown on TCM HD looked so bad that I had my doubts that Olive would dare to release it. But then I forgot that TLE had worked on some 35mm elements some years ago so this will probably the missing piece of the puzzle.

    As you will remember MGM had some significant work done on Khartoum and they even let Fotokem do a new 70mm print so it was not completely out of the question that MGM would do something similar (with or without the 70mm print) with The Hallelujah Trail.

  102. I think the sales of Khartoum probably told everyone everything they needed to know 🙂 Listen, we all wish MGM would do the right thing, but other than Kino occasionally paying them to do a new transfer, they just don't care enough. This was instantly clear to me with West Side Story – if they don't care about THAT film, they don't care about anything.

  103. haineshisway

    I think the sales of Khartoum probably told everyone everything they needed to know 🙂 Listen, we all wish MGM would do the right thing, but other than Kino occasionally paying them to do a new transfer, they just don't care enough. This was instantly clear to me with West Side Story – if they don't care about THAT film, they don't care about anything.

    Well, the licensed Khartoum out to TT and it sold out – how much more success can you have if you choose that way of distribution 🙂
    Still it is is obvious that for whatever reason MGM is not even into repeating the comparatively modest investment that they made for Khartoum (only a 1080p master).

    I hope they will revisit West Side Story at some point, it should not be that difficult if they kept the raw data.

  104. OliverK

    Well, the licensed Khartoum out to TT and it sold out – how much more success can you have if you choose that way of distribution 🙂
    Still it is is obvious that for whatever reason MGM is not even into repeating the comparatively modest investment that they made for Khartoum (only a 1080p master).

    I hope they will revisit West Side Story at some point, it should not be that difficult if they kept the raw data.

    Yes it took several years and several sales to sell only 3,000 copies which means it was not very profitable. Hallelujah Trail will most likely sell a little less. Since Olive is using the existing master they will make a small profit. If they spent a ton of money for MGM to do a new transfer the sales increase would be minimal since most will buy this version anyway and they would probably lose money. They made the best choice from a business point of view.

  105. Randy Korstick

    Yes it took several years and several sales to sell only 3,000 copies which means it was not very profitable. Hallelujah Trail will most likely sell a little less. Since Olive is using the existing master they will make a small profit. If they spent a ton of money for MGM to do a new transfer the sales increase would be minimal since most will buy this version anyway and they would probably lose money. They made the best choice from a business point of view.

    I don't think Oliver wants to hear it 🙂 But yes, years and sales will sell anything out, pretty much, and I can also explain that when something sells out occasionally they may not necessarily have pressed all the copies, the full 3,000 run. They have have cut their losses. Have no idea if that's the case here, but it happens.

  106. Randy Korstick

    Yes it took several years and several sales to sell only 3,000 copies which means it was not very profitable. Hallelujah Trail will most likely sell a little less. Since Olive is using the existing master they will make a small profit. If they spent a ton of money for MGM to do a new transfer the sales increase would be minimal since most will buy this version anyway and they would probably lose money. They made the best choice from a business point of view.

    I don't think Oliver wants to hear it 🙂 But yes, years and sales will sell anything out, pretty much, and I can also explain that when something sells out occasionally they may not necessarily have pressed all the copies, the full 3,000 run. They have have cut their losses. Have no idea if that's the case here, but it happens.

  107. Randy Korstick

    Yes it took several years and several sales to sell only 3,000 copies which means it was not very profitable. Hallelujah Trail will most likely sell a little less. Since Olive is using the existing master they will make a small profit. If they spent a ton of money for MGM to do a new transfer the sales increase would be minimal since most will buy this version anyway and they would probably lose money. They made the best choice from a business point of view.

    I don't think Oliver wants to hear it 🙂 But yes, years and sales will sell anything out, pretty much, and I can also explain that when something sells out occasionally they may not necessarily have pressed all the copies, the full 3,000 run. They have have cut their losses. Have no idea if that's the case here, but it happens.

  108. haineshisway

    I don't think Oliver wants to hear it 🙂 But yes, years and sales will sell anything out, pretty much, and I can also explain that when something sells out occasionally they may not necessarily have pressed all the copies, the full 3,000 run. They have have cut their losses. Have no idea if that's the case here, but it happens.

    Don't worry I can take it 🙂

    As I said if I had not forgotten about it I would have expected for them to use the TLE master from the start, I just couldn't imagine that Olive would release something that looks like the TCM HD airing.
    Judging by the caps of the TLE version people should be reasonably happy with it. Just don't expect 70mm detail and a true multichannel soundtrack and of course about 15% of the UP70 frame is missing, too.

  109. haineshisway

    I don't think Oliver wants to hear it 🙂 But yes, years and sales will sell anything out, pretty much, and I can also explain that when something sells out occasionally they may not necessarily have pressed all the copies, the full 3,000 run. They have have cut their losses. Have no idea if that's the case here, but it happens.

    Don't worry I can take it 🙂

    As I said if I had not forgotten about it I would have expected for them to use the TLE master from the start, I just couldn't imagine that Olive would release something that looks like the TCM HD airing.
    Judging by the caps of the TLE version people should be reasonably happy with it. Just don't expect 70mm detail and a true multichannel soundtrack and of course about 15% of the UP70 frame is missing, too.

  110. haineshisway

    I don't think Oliver wants to hear it 🙂 But yes, years and sales will sell anything out, pretty much, and I can also explain that when something sells out occasionally they may not necessarily have pressed all the copies, the full 3,000 run. They have have cut their losses. Have no idea if that's the case here, but it happens.

    Don't worry I can take it 🙂

    As I said if I had not forgotten about it I would have expected for them to use the TLE master from the start, I just couldn't imagine that Olive would release something that looks like the TCM HD airing.
    Judging by the caps of the TLE version people should be reasonably happy with it. Just don't expect 70mm detail and a true multichannel soundtrack and of course about 15% of the UP70 frame is missing, too.

  111. DP 70

    This looks like its from a 70mm Rectified print for Cinerama screens ?

    My thoughts exactly, there is some compression visible towards the sides. It could also be from a 35mm element that was struck from an IP created for cinerama but this definitely looks more compressed towards the edges of the frame.

  112. My Blu Ray of "The Hallelujah Trail" surprisingly arrived today. I kept my expectations low….and that did not prepare me enough for the disappointment of the Blu Ray. The sound is 2 channel DTS 2 channel stereo sound that is ok ( no bass), I long for 5.1 and full surround.
    The PQ , well it looks like a DVD transfer from a tape source. :-(.
    It does look so much better than the the original non anamorphic DVD…but in this day and age, that's not saying much. Yes the images on the far left and right seem squeezed .
    155 minutes including overture, intermission and exit music…Identical running time to the dvd.
    Is there a chance for an Olive signature edition?

  113. Ken Koc

    My Blu Ray of "The Hallelujah Trail" surprisingly arrived today. I kept my expectations low….and that did not prepare me enough for the disappointment of the Blu Ray. The sound is 2 channel DTS 2 channel stereo sound that is ok ( no bass), I long for 5.1 and full surround.
    The PQ , well it looks like a DVD transfer from a tape source. :-(.
    It does look so much better than the the original non anamorphic DVD…but in this day and age, that's not saying much. Yes the images on the far left and right seem squeezed .
    155 minutes including overture, intermission and exit music…Identical running time to the dvd.
    Is there a chance for an Olive signature edition?

    WOW! It looks like Olive did not even have access to the TLE master, as that one certainly does not have a DVD look.

    Looks like The Savage innocents and Strategic Air Command will for now be my last large format releases from Olive…

  114. haineshisway

    So the overture is from the LP, not the actual film? And I hate to say I told everyone so, but I told everyone so 🙂

    The Overture which plays to a black screen is indeed the same Overture that is from the LP. I was hoping the sound and transfer was going to be better.

  115. Mark-P

    Surely you exaggerate. I'm not expecting much, but it can't possibly be that bad.

    I wish I was, but to my eyes it does. However, compared to my DVD copy, it is at least viewable now.
    Still it's one of my guilty pleasures from my youth…..and it sad that this is the best that Olive could provide.

  116. Mark-P

    Surely you exaggerate. I'm not expecting much, but it can't possibly be that bad.

    Why would he exaggerate? He's giving his opinion, and those who've been around this board and who read his posts know that his opinions are not based on hot air, just how he feels.

  117. haineshisway

    Why would he exaggerate? He's giving his opinion, and those who've been around this board and who read his posts know that his opinions are not based on hot air, just how he feels.

    Actually I now realize I misunderstood him. My brain substituted "tape source" for "VHS" which would indeed be an exaggeration. While the Blu-ray won't be up to snuff, it will probably be acceptable for my standards.

  118. moviefanatic1979

    DVD quality, in most cases, look great upscaled on my equipment.
    If it looks like a bad DVD transfer I'd be disappointed.

    There are those among us who might even expect Blu-ray quality from a Blu-ray, but luckily not too many in this thread have these ridiculous expectations anymore 😀

  119. moviefanatic1979

    DVD quality, in most cases, look great upscaled on my equipment.
    If it looks like a bad DVD transfer I'd be disappointed.

    There are those among us who might even expect Blu-ray quality from a Blu-ray, but luckily not too many in this thread have these ridiculous expectations anymore 😀

  120. I am in a quandry.

    I saw this during original release in 35mm optical mono sound. It is not great but I enjoyed it, mainly the music and the performances.

    It is one of those artifacts of my youth so I would like to have a decent copy. On the other hand, I am not eager to give "MGM" money for more mishandling of the fantastic UA library.

    So, I am waiting to hear more from any of you good folks who have made the investment and would care to share your opinions.

  121. I am in a quandry.

    I saw this during original release in 35mm optical mono sound. It is not great but I enjoyed it, mainly the music and the performances.

    It is one of those artifacts of my youth so I would like to have a decent copy. On the other hand, I am not eager to give "MGM" money for more mishandling of the fantastic UA library.

    So, I am waiting to hear more from any of you good folks who have made the investment and would care to share your opinions.

  122. I am in a quandry.

    I saw this during original release in 35mm optical mono sound. It is not great but I enjoyed it, mainly the music and the performances.

    It is one of those artifacts of my youth so I would like to have a decent copy. On the other hand, I am not eager to give "MGM" money for more mishandling of the fantastic UA library.

    So, I am waiting to hear more from any of you good folks who have made the investment and would care to share your opinions.

  123. rsmithjr

    I am in a quandry.

    I saw this during original release in 35mm optical mono sound. It is not great but I enjoyed it, mainly the music and the performances.

    It is one of those artifacts of my youth so I would like to have a decent copy. On the other hand, I am not eager to give "MGM" money for more mishandling of the fantastic UA library.

    So, I am waiting to hear more from any of you good folks who have made the investment and would care to share your opinions.

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

  124. rsmithjr

    I am in a quandry.

    I saw this during original release in 35mm optical mono sound. It is not great but I enjoyed it, mainly the music and the performances.

    It is one of those artifacts of my youth so I would like to have a decent copy. On the other hand, I am not eager to give "MGM" money for more mishandling of the fantastic UA library.

    So, I am waiting to hear more from any of you good folks who have made the investment and would care to share your opinions.

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

  125. rsmithjr

    I am in a quandry.

    I saw this during original release in 35mm optical mono sound. It is not great but I enjoyed it, mainly the music and the performances.

    It is one of those artifacts of my youth so I would like to have a decent copy. On the other hand, I am not eager to give "MGM" money for more mishandling of the fantastic UA library.

    So, I am waiting to hear more from any of you good folks who have made the investment and would care to share your opinions.

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

  126. rsmithjr

    I am in a quandry.

    I saw this during original release in 35mm optical mono sound. It is not great but I enjoyed it, mainly the music and the performances.

    It is one of those artifacts of my youth so I would like to have a decent copy. On the other hand, I am not eager to give "MGM" money for more mishandling of the fantastic UA library.

    So, I am waiting to hear more from any of you good folks who have made the investment and would care to share your opinions.

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

  127. Robert Crawford

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

    I am not sure which hole I am on but it's not hole 1 or 2 if I saw this film in college (which I did). But I also have a fanatical interest in proper exhibition of motion pictures.

    Thanks for your comment, I am taking it seriously.

    Edit: Ok, Robert. I can't resist anyone who is in his 16th hole. I ordered it. But I still don't trust or respect "MGM".

  128. Robert Crawford

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

    I am not sure which hole I am on but it's not hole 1 or 2 if I saw this film in college (which I did). But I also have a fanatical interest in proper exhibition of motion pictures.

    Thanks for your comment, I am taking it seriously.

    Edit: Ok, Robert. I can't resist anyone who is in his 16th hole. I ordered it. But I still don't trust or respect "MGM".

  129. Robert Crawford

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

    I am not sure which hole I am on but it's not hole 1 or 2 if I saw this film in college (which I did). But I also have a fanatical interest in proper exhibition of motion pictures.

    Thanks for your comment, I am taking it seriously.

    Edit: Ok, Robert. I can't resist anyone who is in his 16th hole. I ordered it. But I still don't trust or respect "MGM".

  130. Robert Crawford

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

    I am not sure which hole I am on but it's not hole 1 or 2 if I saw this film in college (which I did). But I also have a fanatical interest in proper exhibition of motion pictures.

    Thanks for your comment, I am taking it seriously.

    Edit: Ok, Robert. I can't resist anyone who is in his 16th hole. I ordered it. But I still don't trust or respect "MGM".

  131. Robert Crawford

    Hey, I'm on the 16th hole of my lifetime so I don't have time to wait for a disc with better A/V presentations for this particular title. This might be it for this film.

    I am not sure which hole I am on but it's not hole 1 or 2 if I saw this film in college (which I did). But I also have a fanatical interest in proper exhibition of motion pictures.

    Thanks for your comment, I am taking it seriously.

    Edit: Ok, Robert. I can't resist anyone who is in his 16th hole. I ordered it. But I still don't trust or respect "MGM".

  132. rsmithjr

    I am not sure which hole I am on but it's not hole 1 or 2 if I saw this film in college (which I did). But I also have a fanatical interest in proper exhibition of motion pictures.

    Thanks for your comment, I am taking it seriously.

    Edit: Ok, Robert. I can't resist anyone who is in his 16th hole. I ordered it. But I still don't trust or respect "MGM".

    Neither do I.

  133. 2.35:1 and 2.0 DTS-HD was exactly what I expected so my disappointment is not as great. I would have preferred 5.1 and 2.76 but I knew that was not going to happen because of the expensive involved for a title that will only sell a 2-3,000 copies. I am getting this as there is no doubt in my mind that this is the last blu ray release this film will have.
    Now bring out the roadshow version of the Alamo in the best version currently available with some cleanup.

  134. Ken Koc

    I wish I was, but to my eyes it does. However, compared to my DVD copy, it is at least viewable now.
    Still it's one of my guilty pleasures from my youth…..and it sad that this is the best that Olive could provide.

    As far as cropping, does it look like the R1 or R2 DVD screen caps below?

    MGM R1 DVD probably from 70mm flat
    [​IMG]

    MGM R2 DVD probably from 35mm, cropped from all four sides
    [​IMG]

  135. I may buy this simply because this film interests me and I don't have any previous copy. I remember seeing this on TV in the early 1970s and might just want to add this one.

    Even with the aforementioned quality issues, still better than nothing. My only concern is will Olive recall this title for PQ improvements as they did previously with Father Goose and Operation Petticoat?

  136. It's probably never going to be transferred properly so I can understand your wish Brad to see it.
    I in fact would like to see it again as I never have since I saw it in Cinerama all those years ago.
    However to do so would be supporting a very crappy transfer and putting money in KL's pockets when they deserve nothing but criticism for this mess.
    A quandary,

  137. john a hunter

    However to do so would be supporting a very crappy transfer and putting money in KL's pockets when they deserve nothing but criticism for this mess.

    This is how I feel about it and I am young enough to wait for a proper presentation.

    And if indeed this looks as bad as first feedback indicates I will wait and let Olive know that I would be happy to buy this title but not in the quality they released it in. As has been pointed out this is a movie that was made a lot more enjoyable by its stunning cinematography and soundtrack but like with The Greatest Story Ever Told it seems that we get another spectacularly substandard release of a Ultra Panavision 70 / cinerama superproduction.

  138. Kyrsten Brad

    I may buy this simply because this film interests me and I don't have any previous copy. I remember seeing this on TV in the early 1970s and might just want to add this one.

    Even with the aforementioned quality issues, still better than nothing. My only concern is will Olive recall this title for PQ improvements as they did previously with Father Goose and Operation Petticoat?

    They will not do that with this title because in the case of the 2 titles you mentioned those were disc authoring issues so they were an actual defects. For Hallelujah Trail this is not a defect its just an older existing master of the film in 2.35, 2.0 audio and not the 2.76 and 5.1 new master that we would have hoped for. However since MGM very rarely spends big bucks to do new masters and Olive isn't going to spend that kind of money on an obscure film this is the best version we will get on this film. A lot of people including me didn't expect this film to ever be released on Blu Ray so we're lucky to have this.

  139. Kyrsten Brad

    I may buy this simply because this film interests me and I don't have any previous copy. I remember seeing this on TV in the early 1970s and might just want to add this one.

    Even with the aforementioned quality issues, still better than nothing. My only concern is will Olive recall this title for PQ improvements as they did previously with Father Goose and Operation Petticoat?

    They will not do that with this title because in the case of the 2 titles you mentioned those were disc authoring issues so they were an actual defects. For Hallelujah Trail this is not a defect its just an older existing master of the film in 2.35, 2.0 audio and not the 2.76 and 5.1 new master that we would have hoped for. However since MGM very rarely spends big bucks to do new masters and Olive isn't going to spend that kind of money on an obscure film this is the best version we will get on this film. A lot of people including me didn't expect this film to ever be released on Blu Ray so we're lucky to have this.

  140. OliverK

    This is how I feel about it and I am young enough to wait for a proper presentation.

    And if indeed this looks as bad as first feedback indicates I will wait and let Olive know that I would be happy to buy this title but not in the quality they released it in. As has been pointed out this is a movie that was made a lot more enjoyable by its stunning cinematography and soundtrack but like with The Greatest Story Ever Told it seems that we get another spectacularly substandard release of a Ultra Panavision 70 / cinerama superproduction.

    A lot of people let Olive know that they will not buy the 2D version of Money from Home but would gladly buy the 3D version but as Bob Furmanek pointed out they were not willing to spend the 7K to do a 3D version. So if they are not willing to spend a small amount on a slightly more popular film there is no way they are going to spend huge money to do a new version of Hallelujah Trail just to sell another 1,000 – 1,500 copies. They still have not re-released a proper version of the Pride and the Passion after all the quality complaints on that old master, out of focus on the right and incorrect AR and they never will because they just used the existing master for that film as well. We need to remember we are in the days of declining disc sales and catalog titles of non-A pictures really struggle to sell 2,000 copies so it is not realistic for these small distributers to be expected to put up huge dollars for new masters of films that won't sell very well. The only chance of that happening is if the studio is willing to do it for future preservation and MGM is the one studio that is not interested in doing that with a few exceptions.

  141. OliverK

    This is how I feel about it and I am young enough to wait for a proper presentation.

    And if indeed this looks as bad as first feedback indicates I will wait and let Olive know that I would be happy to buy this title but not in the quality they released it in. As has been pointed out this is a movie that was made a lot more enjoyable by its stunning cinematography and soundtrack but like with The Greatest Story Ever Told it seems that we get another spectacularly substandard release of a Ultra Panavision 70 / cinerama superproduction.

    A lot of people let Olive know that they will not buy the 2D version of Money from Home but would gladly buy the 3D version but as Bob Furmanek pointed out they were not willing to spend the 7K to do a 3D version. So if they are not willing to spend a small amount on a slightly more popular film there is no way they are going to spend huge money to do a new version of Hallelujah Trail just to sell another 1,000 – 1,500 copies. They still have not re-released a proper version of the Pride and the Passion after all the quality complaints on that old master, out of focus on the right and incorrect AR and they never will because they just used the existing master for that film as well. We need to remember we are in the days of declining disc sales and catalog titles of non-A pictures really struggle to sell 2,000 copies so it is not realistic for these small distributers to be expected to put up huge dollars for new masters of films that won't sell very well. The only chance of that happening is if the studio is willing to do it for future preservation and MGM is the one studio that is not interested in doing that with a few exceptions.

  142. And how long have we waited for a better release of The Greastest Story Ever Told? I think around 8 years and never a nugget of a new one. This is the one and only Hallelujah Trail, so get it now or not. There will never be a better one.

  143. And how long have we waited for a better release of The Greastest Story Ever Told? I think around 8 years and never a nugget of a new one. This is the one and only Hallelujah Trail, so get it now or not. There will never be a better one.

  144. Randy Korstick

    The only chance of that happening is if the studio is willing to do it for future preservation and MGM is the one studio that is not interested in doing that with a few exceptions.

    True, and just reading that has depressed me for the day. 🙁

  145. Randy Korstick

    The only chance of that happening is if the studio is willing to do it for future preservation and MGM is the one studio that is not interested in doing that with a few exceptions.

    True, and just reading that has depressed me for the day. 🙁

  146. ahollis

    And how long have we waited for a better release of The Greastest Story Ever Told? I think around 8 years and never a nugget of a new one. This is the one and only Hallelujah Trail, so get it now or not. There will never be a better one.

    Considering that I found the appeal of the film to reside chiefly in its 65mm cinematography and score, I can live without seeing it again.

  147. ahollis

    And how long have we waited for a better release of The Greastest Story Ever Told? I think around 8 years and never a nugget of a new one. This is the one and only Hallelujah Trail, so get it now or not. There will never be a better one.

    Considering that I found the appeal of the film to reside chiefly in its 65mm cinematography and score, I can live without seeing it again.

  148. ahollis

    And how long have we waited for a better release of The Greastest Story Ever Told? I think around 8 years and never a nugget of a new one. This is the one and only Hallelujah Trail, so get it now or not. There will never be a better one.

    The TLE master does not look like it has been struck for a DVD and it should be possible to use it so MGM would not have to do much.
    Other than that I agree that TGSET is not really an encouraging story of a studio doing things right after a while but I have watched TGSET twice in 70mm in the last 6 years which is good enough for me 🙂

  149. ahollis

    And how long have we waited for a better release of The Greastest Story Ever Told? I think around 8 years and never a nugget of a new one. This is the one and only Hallelujah Trail, so get it now or not. There will never be a better one.

    The TLE master does not look like it has been struck for a DVD and it should be possible to use it so MGM would not have to do much.
    Other than that I agree that TGSET is not really an encouraging story of a studio doing things right after a while but I have watched TGSET twice in 70mm in the last 6 years which is good enough for me 🙂

  150. I see you are taking on for the team, please let us have a few caps when you get the disc.

    From the other site it sounds as if they may have released the zoomed in version of the master for the 2003 RC2 DVD which would be quite the slap in the face of anybody who is buying this.

  151. OliverK

    I see you are taking on for the team, please let us have a few caps when you get the disc.

    From the other site it sounds as if they may have released the zoomed in version of the master for the 2003 RC2 DVD which would be quite the slap in the face of anybody who is buying this.

    Yes but the R2 DVD does look better than the R1. I don't have the ability to do a screen cap from a Blu-ray. But, I will let you know how it looks. Maybe http://caps-a-holic.com will do one.

  152. RolandL

    Yes but the R2 DVD does look better than the R1. I don't have the ability to do a screen cap from a Blu-ray. But, I will let you know how it looks. Maybe http://caps-a-holic.com will do one.

    Yes I guess it does look better. The version that was aired on TCM HD looked like it came fromt he same master with the same framing so the the Blu-ray from Olive might be the third time they recylce that 15+ years old master.

    I think that DVDBeaver and/or Blu-ray.com will have some caps at some point. Caps-a-holic does not really cover the niche labels that much although I really like their mouseover comparisons.

  153. Randy Korstick

    Olive isn't going to spend that kind of money on an obscure film this is the best version we will get on this film. A lot of people including me didn't expect this film to ever be released on Blu Ray so we're lucky to have this.

    Sorry but after spending good money on this atrocity of a disc I don't feel "lucky." This is possibly the worst transer I have ever seen on a blu-ray. It should have only been released on DVD so the lower resolution would cover up what a pathetic old transfer it is. I remember it looking better on LaserDisc. From now on I will wait for a review before buying Olive discs as this has made me lose all faith in them. I would not release a transfer of this poor quality without at least some attempt at digitally enhancing it and if that's impossible just forget it. I find this impossible to watch on my big screen. I guess an iPad would be the only way to go. Very disappointed.

  154. SFMike

    Sorry but after spending good money on this atrocity of a disc I don't feel "lucky." This is possibly the worst transer I have ever seen on a blu-ray. It should have only been released on DVD so the lower resolution would cover up what a pathetic old transfer it is. I remember it looking better on LaserDisc. From now on I will wait for a review before buying Olive discs as this has made me lose all faith in them. I would not release a transfer of this poor quality without at least some attempt at digitally enhancing it and if that's impossible just forget it. I find this impossible to watch on my big screen. I guess an iPad would be the only way to go. Very disappointed.

    What size screen do you have?

  155. SFMike

    Sorry but after spending good money on this atrocity of a disc I don't feel "lucky." This is possibly the worst transer I have ever seen on a blu-ray. It should have only been released on DVD so the lower resolution would cover up what a pathetic old transfer it is. I remember it looking better on LaserDisc. From now on I will wait for a review before buying Olive discs as this has made me lose all faith in them. I would not release a transfer of this poor quality without at least some attempt at digitally enhancing it and if that's impossible just forget it. I find this impossible to watch on my big screen. I guess an iPad would be the only way to go. Very disappointed.

    Releasing only an improved DVD might have worked better as with a DVD people won't be disappointed when they only get DVD quality.

  156. SFMike

    Sorry but after spending good money on this atrocity of a disc I don't feel "lucky." This is possibly the worst transer I have ever seen on a blu-ray. It should have only been released on DVD so the lower resolution would cover up what a pathetic old transfer it is. I remember it looking better on LaserDisc. From now on I will wait for a review before buying Olive discs as this has made me lose all faith in them. I would not release a transfer of this poor quality without at least some attempt at digitally enhancing it and if that's impossible just forget it. I find this impossible to watch on my big screen. I guess an iPad would be the only way to go. Very disappointed.

    Hey Don't shoot the messenger. Many of us here were trying to reduce peoples expectations and thus disappointment by not only pointing out Olives track record but also that they or any of the small distributers were not going to spend huge money on a new 2.76:1 master and new 5.1 sound mix only to sell 2,000 copies of an obscure film. What they delivered was exactly what was expected given the circumstances. I always refused to buy the DVD because it wasn't anamorphic. I will buy this just to have a copy and knowing that this is the best we are going to get and likely the last time this film is released on disc.

  157. 15+ year old SD era master that has also been used by TCM HD for its very disappointing airing of The Hallelujah Trail.
    This is right up there with Fall of the Roman Empire in ugliness and has to wonder why Olive could not even get the TLE version that should look considerably better from what we have seen here. In my opinion Olive shows a severe lack of judgement releasing The Hallelujah Trail looking so bad as this is now is the worst large format release of a movie held by a major studio to ever appear on Blu-ray – more than 10 years into the format!

  158. RolandL

    Worse than The Greatest Story Ever Told?

    The Greatest Story Ever Told has proper multichannel sound and the aspect ratio is correct so yes I would say that The Hallelujah Trail is even worse. I have contacted Torsten Kaiser, maybe he can comment on the reasons why his superior work has not been used for this Blu-ray

  159. Douglas R

    To make this release even worse, I see from DVD Beaver that Olive have created sub-titles ALL in upper case. I hate that.

    The subtitles are also about double the size that is needed for a proper Blu-ray but then we are talking about a very special release here so I guess bad subtitles are par for the course…

  160. I've decided to cancel my order for this title as the issues noted in this thread are too great for me to spend $17.43 on such a flawed disc. I'm not really a big fan of this film so the flawed DVD would have to suffice for me.

  161. I traded in my DVD in anticipation of this release. Big mistake. At least I waited for reviews before buying, which I won't be doing. I'll let the memories of the last viewing suffice. Was a big fan of Jim Hutton when I saw this as a kid. And Burt Lancaster no matter what he starred in.

    Thanks again for those who reported here.

  162. OliverK

    The subtitles are also about double the size that is needed for a proper Blu-ray but then we are talking about a very special release here so I guess bad subtitles are par for the course…

    Perhaps the larger subtitles were designed to distract our attentions from their ever lousy transfer.:thumbsdown:

  163. Interesting to see people cancelling orders and my order was placed on backorder. Seems some places never received copies of this and I am waiting to actually get a look at this with my own eyes. I don't think I will see it until at least next weekend.

  164. Kyrsten Brad

    […] My only concern is will Olive recall this title for PQ improvements as they did previously with Father Goose and Operation Petticoat?

    It wouldn't surprise me. After al, recalls are what Olive does best.

  165. CineSavant: "Olive Films’ Blu-ray of The Hallelujah Trail is not the Blu-ray fans are waiting for. This movie definitely needs a great encoding to allow its size and scope can impress the viewer. Although more than watchable — Bernstein’s music always entertains — the image is seriously deficient. Close-ups are not too bad, but in all the wide shots the picture has serious problems. The image is soft and under-detailed, and practically a catalog of digital artifacts, with contrast lines that bleed and highlights bouncing through horizontal lines. The animation in the main titles exhibit numerous digital errors, with parts of letters ‘torn’ by video errors.

    Colors are fairly bright and the action seems smooth, but I don’t believe this was sourced from an HD transfer. It looks exactly like an up-rez from NTSC or PAL. Yes, it looks better than MGM’s old flat-letterboxed DVD, but that’s not saying much.

    MGM may not even have an HD transfer of Trail in either this 35mm standard theatrical release version, or the Road Show cut said to be as much as ten minutes longer. I am not privy to MGM’s policies, but I have always heard that the studio doesn’t create Blu-ray masters by up-converting standard def masters. None of the studios normally do that, to my knowledge. The most I’ve seen are Blu-rays that have cheated by reformatting flat HD into widescreen HD, and gotten away with it. Some casual viewers may accept this disc, but the Blu-ray websites concerned about presentation quality are not going to review it kindly."

    https://trailersfromhell.com/the-hallelujah-trail/

  166. Bob Cashill

    CineSavant: "Olive Films’ Blu-ray of The Hallelujah Trail is not the Blu-ray fans are waiting for. This movie definitely needs a great encoding to allow its size and scope can impress the viewer. Although more than watchable — Bernstein’s music always entertains — the image is seriously deficient. Close-ups are not too bad, but in all the wide shots the picture has serious problems. The image is soft and under-detailed, and practically a catalog of digital artifacts, with contrast lines that bleed and highlights bouncing through horizontal lines. The animation in the main titles exhibit numerous digital errors, with parts of letters ‘torn’ by video errors.

    Colors are fairly bright and the action seems smooth, but I don’t believe this was sourced from an HD transfer. It looks exactly like an up-rez from NTSC or PAL. Yes, it looks better than MGM’s old flat-letterboxed DVD, but that’s not saying much.

    MGM may not even have an HD transfer of Trail in either this 35mm standard theatrical release version, or the Road Show cut said to be as much as ten minutes longer. I am not privy to MGM’s policies, but I have always heard that the studio doesn’t create Blu-ray masters by up-converting standard def masters. None of the studios normally do that, to my knowledge. The most I’ve seen are Blu-rays that have cheated by reformatting flat HD into widescreen HD, and gotten away with it. Some casual viewers may accept this disc, but the Blu-ray websites concerned about presentation quality are not going to review it kindly."

    https://trailersfromhell.com/the-hallelujah-trail/

    I had to laugh at whoever wrote this – what's on view on this Blu-ray has nothing to do with encoding so why he even mentions that is anyone's guess. What this film needs is a NEW transfer off the large format negative. Only then doe encoding (authoring) come into play. You can encode (author) the current Blu-ray with every bit and byte in the known and unknown universe and it wouldn't help. Oh, and if this guy thinks the colors are fairly bright, well, perhaps he should learn what color in movies from this era is supposed to look like – faded and brown does not equate with "fairly bright".

    Oh, I see – DVD Savant has changed his name – it's Glenn Erickson who should know better. And lest anyone is fooled by the images on his page, none of those are taken from this Blu-ray – in fact, look at the color in those stills and then look at the colors on the Blu-ray. I think old Glenn has lost his mind, actually and I think I'll send him an e-mail telling him so 🙂

  167. Douglas R

    To make this release even worse, I see from DVD Beaver that Olive have created sub-titles ALL in upper case. I hate that.

    From an Olive standpoint, the usages of all upper-case subtitles was a CAPITAL idea.:lol:

  168. haineshisway

    Really? And what does it look like to you?

    I thought you were the guy who didn't believe in judging anything based on screencaps. Anyway to answer your question, the screencaps look to me like an ancient HD transfer from a faded, soft 35mm print.

  169. Mark-P

    I thought you were the guy who didn't believe in judging anything based on screencaps. Anyway to answer your question, the screencaps look to me like an ancient HD transfer from a faded, soft 35mm print.

    Um, you were responding to a post that said it looked like a DVD upscale – you said "Not to me." I responded, "Really? What does it look like to you?" And your response is some snarky line to me personally that doesn't answer the question, after which you answer the question that basically says it looks like an ancient HD transfer from a faded, soft 35mm print. I kind of think that's what the poster you were responding to meant, actually.

    But, just to clarify a few points – I've seen the disc – never good to jump to conclusions, is it? So, quite right – I'm the guy who doesn't believe in judging anything based on screen caps. Furthermore, while it is absolutely an ancient and barely HD transfer it is most assuredly NOT from a faded, soft 35 mm print. It is from a faded internegative, not a print. Soft is another issue entirely.

  170. haineshisway

    Um, you were responding to a post that said it looked like a DVD upscale – you said "Not to me." I responded, "Really? What does it look like to you?" And your response is some snarky line to me personally that doesn't answer the question, after which you answer the question that basically says it looks like an ancient HD transfer from a faded, soft 35mm print. I kind of think that's what the poster you were responding to meant, actually.

    But, just to clarify a few points – I've seen the disc – never good to jump to conclusions, is it? So, quite right – I'm the guy who doesn't believe in judging anything based on screen caps. Furthermore, while it is absolutely an ancient and barely HD transfer it is most assuredly NOT from a faded, soft 35 mm print. It is from a faded internegative, not a print. Soft is another issue entirely.

    Sorry, I didn't know you had the disc. You hadn't stated that in this thread. As I don't have it as of yet (I'll wait for a good sale) I'm not making any judgements one way or the other.

  171. rjsdvd

    I have a region 4 DVD from Australia, and am very happy with it. The anamorphic image (although it is in the incorrect 2.35:1 aspect ratio) is leagues ahead of the terrible letterboxed domestic release, the sound is good, and it appears to be the full roadshow version, with overture, intermission, and exit music intact. The blu-ray would need to offer something spectacular to warrant an upgrade.

    Just read the review of the blu-ray from DVDBeaver. Apparently the blu-ray quality is poor, the film deserves better. I'll stay with my Region 4 DVD.

  172. Don't get me wrong – I am NOT thrilled with this new disc.
    It does correct much of the aliasing the old letterbox transfer had.
    I was hoping we would at least get the original main title music instead of that awful record album version.
    Why bitch? You can hear SOME of the original large orchestra, large chorus version reused at the end of the intermission music and in the end cast music.

  173. I don't know why they had to crop it compared to the Region 1 and 4 DVD's

    Region 1
    [​IMG]

    Blu-ray
    [​IMG]

    If you take the Region 1 DVD image and crop the sides to match whats on the Blu-ray, you get the following, which has an AR of about 2:1. So you are seeing about 74% of the width of the 2.76 image. Same as when 2.4 movies are cropped to fit our TV displays.
    View attachment 45451

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